nyk4ever wrote:its great reading nixluva post about this guy. you would think he was a 5time all-star and mvp candidate.

No one is saying that. He's a 22yr old combo guard who averaged 17ppg when he was 21, he was a top 5 basketball prospect in the nation in high school. He's coming off an injury and played for a team with almost no plan.

At the least I think you have a situation where it's a guy like DWill who is very talented but can hopefully play a lot better in a more organized system with better coaching.

(Whether we have that here with Rambis is still open for debate)

SupremeCommander wrote:Man the Knicks are bad... 9 pages on Tony Wroten...

Not even close to the N'Dour thread. A guy that we never got and is a complete nobody.

crzymdups wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:its great reading nixluva post about this guy. you would think he was a 5time all-star and mvp candidate.

No one is saying that. He's a 22yr old combo guard who averaged 17ppg when he was 21, he was a top 5 basketball prospect in the nation in high school. He's coming off an injury and played for a team with almost no plan.

At the least I think you have a situation where it's a guy like DWill who is very talented but can hopefully play a lot better in a more organized system with better coaching.

(Whether we have that here with Rambis is still open for debate)

listen man, i'm all for signing the guy and playing him and hope he does well, we need to find all the guys we can this way. with that said, under no circumstances should his name be associated with unstoppable or anything of the sort. i was big on signing schved and was one of the people who praised the signing. why was high on it? because of the games i saw schved play, i was impressed with him and what he could do in his limited minutes. i never once have been impressed with wrotten. i'm definitely not impressed with his PG skills and that's something we need badly. i hope wroten is healthy and plays outstanding here, but i'm not going to fool myself about what the guy is.

DENVER — The search for next season’s point guard is on as the Knicks will sign former 76ers point guard Tony Wroten to audition for at least the remainder of the season, even if he doesn’t play a game.

Though the Knicks are negotiating a two-year deal at the NBA minimum, there’s no assurance he’ll be on the roster next season as next year’s money is not guaranteed, according to an NBA source. The Knicks will determine if he’s healthy and a good fit for their triangle offense with little risk.

Wroten, coming off a partially torn ACL from last season, is not guaranteed to see any game action as the club wants him to strengthen the knee. He may just be a practice player. The plan is to develop the soon-to-be 23-year-old released by the Sixers in late December and perhaps bring him to the summer league.

“If he’s not healthy to play, we can evaluate him over summer,” interim coach Kurt Rambis said. “We see potential in him. Now we have his rights. He’s a penetrating guard. He was somebody who can really break down defenses and attack the basket, but I haven’t seen him play in a while.

“A lot of management reasons to do something like that that still holds value to the team, even if he’s not actively playing the rest of the year. It’s a management and medical decision right now.”

Wroten is not expected to join team on the current six-game road trip. The Knicks had an open roster spot after letting Jimmer Fredette rejoin Westchester after his 10-day contract expired.

“I don’t know where he’s at,” Rambis said. “We still have good, young players on our team. We can use a lot of guys. We’re not only trying to win ballgames, but we’re still working on getting our young players in situations to get experience. That’s not troubling to me in terms of adding somebody [who can play].”

If Wroten impresses, that could prompt the Knicks to use the stretch provision on Jose Calderon this summer and save $5 million in cap space.

According to sources, the Knicks consider Wroten a good defender active in the passing lanes. Wroten was mired in a horrible situation in Philly, where he was the leading scorer last season at 16.9 points per game in 30 contests. He has played in 145 games in parts of four seasons and started his career in Memphis.

Rookie Kristaps Porzingis didn’t scrimmage at Monday’s practice as he recovers from a shin bruise that forced him to miss Saturday’s game with Detroit. He is listed as questionable but said he plans to play against Denver. Rambis said it’s the medical staff’s decision.

The injury occurred Friday in Boston when he was kicked. The Knicks’ chemistry was terrific Saturday without Porzingis, who has lost a step on defense, as evidenced by his decrease in blocking shots, according to Rambis. His offensive rebounding also has declined. Porzingis was surprised by Rambis’ evaluation of his defense.

“Some games you get blocks and have opportunities. Some games you just don’t,” Porzingis said. “Maybe some part I’ve been a little too slow, but I’ve tried to stay active as I can. I love blocking shots. Maybe I got to block some shots and prove it to the coach I can still block somebody.”

Cleanthony Early (gunshot wound) was officially assigned to the Westchester Knicks so he can begin practicing with them Tuesday and possibly play Wednesday in Canton.

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KingQuis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:If that is the case then you will never find players like Jeremy Lin and even Danny Green before he was with the Spurs. Danny Green was a nothing player in his first year in Cleveland. He got cut then was in the D-League before SA picked him up and flourished. Sometimes you have the eyeball test and go from there. I don't think the Knicks are in any position to be choosy on how we get players.

Bingo. Completely agree.

Wroten is a guy who always stood out to me when I saw the Sixers the past two years. He's certainly a worth a look. I hope he gets a long look.

So i guess Hassim Whiteside is nothing as well.

For every Whiteside there are 40 Anthony Randolphs and Jackie Butlers. Thats perspective. This isnt a bad signing, just not anything to really get excited about. He's just another guy. Some of these guys pop for sure, but does this guy ever make it into the rotation as a Knick? History says its doubtful. Are there better guys out there more worth a look? I have no clue. Wroten is our guy now... hopefully he does great and gets healthy. Would be a nice story.

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say he's just another guy! That's selling his talent short IMO. People are joking about the value of highlight reels and there's not one guard on this team that you could put a reel together like the ones we see on Wroten. I mean can we at least be honest about that? There are very few PG's that aren't big stars that can do the things he does physically and if he could already shoot we'd have no shot to get him.

IMO it's about fit more than anything. A kid like Wroten did show that he has the ability to play at the NBA level even if he was still a flawed player. I think he could be a very big deal in this system if he can get a handle of the offense and where to attack. I keep going back to Shved who many laughed at when we got him and I was saying from the start that he was capable of fitting in very well in this style of ball.

With Wroten he can create a lot of offense on his own with pure hustle. Pushing the ball, playing the passing lanes and getting steals. We know he's also excellent off Dribble Hand Offs and Screens. We also know that he can create his own shot at will. In addition to all of that he has very good passing skills. He may take a few too many chances but nothing a little coaching can't fix. I think if healthy Wroten is a big deal for this team.

end of the first round pick, not resigned after his rookie deal, only good stats put up on worst teams in NBA history = just another guy. There are some lake Erie sized holes in his game which you gloss over.

Can he work hard and blossom here? He most surely can. If you are being realistic about his chances to do so? 1 in 20. Is he as good as Langston Galloway?

1 in 20 at best but good post.

I wish that Nix looked at things this way (statistical vs hope)

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:My only concern is the stability of the right knee acl which has been operated twice. That's def something to monitor for a guy who relies on his physical gifts so much

It's a worthy risk given the low cost and no guarantee long term. It's the prototypical low risk but high reward scenario! Aside from the injury issue, I like his talent and fit. Hopefully he works out cuz we can really use his speed and driving ability.

I get that we can be excited about new, young blood, but are his talents and fit really there? I kinda question that

Seems to me that Phil wouldn't waste his time if there wasn't at least some degree of fit for this system. Phil could've gone with a plethora of available young PG's out there from the D League. Wroten has the prototypical size and combo guard ability that you look for even with his rather poor shooting. Shooting is a skill he can improve on with hard work, but being 6-6, long, quick, athletic with great handle and a high motor are not things you can just make up for if you don't have it. It's actually a good thing he's not overly reliant on jump shooting.

Think about an even more athletic version of Shved. Shved struggled in the NBA shooting as well, but on the Knicks he found a comfort zone and looked MUCH better than he did in other situations. Part of that is the shots come in the same spots and a player can gain proficiency with practice. Not saying Wroten is a lock but he does have very similar physical talent and mental approach, such as being a naturally skilled and aggressive push the pace guard that will get out and run and penetrate.

Remember how much different things looked with Shved looking to push the ball and attack the rim on a consistent basis. Shved was also considered a somewhat out of control player and a tweener. Not really a PG or a SG, but capable of both. This system really fits a player like that. It's basically the Kobe/Jordan/Pippen/Odom types. Versatile Guard/Forwards with PG like skills.

he just did with fredette.

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:My only concern is the stability of the right knee acl which has been operated twice. That's def something to monitor for a guy who relies on his physical gifts so much

It's a worthy risk given the low cost and no guarantee long term. It's the prototypical low risk but high reward scenario! Aside from the injury issue, I like his talent and fit. Hopefully he works out cuz we can really use his speed and driving ability.

I get that we can be excited about new, young blood, but are his talents and fit really there? I kinda question that

Seems to me that Phil wouldn't waste his time if there wasn't at least some degree of fit for this system. Phil could've gone with a plethora of available young PG's out there from the D League. Wroten has the prototypical size and combo guard ability that you look for even with his rather poor shooting. Shooting is a skill he can improve on with hard work, but being 6-6, long, quick, athletic with great handle and a high motor are not things you can just make up for if you don't have it. It's actually a good thing he's not overly reliant on jump shooting.

Think about an even more athletic version of Shved. Shved struggled in the NBA shooting as well, but on the Knicks he found a comfort zone and looked MUCH better than he did in other situations. Part of that is the shots come in the same spots and a player can gain proficiency with practice. Not saying Wroten is a lock but he does have very similar physical talent and mental approach, such as being a naturally skilled and aggressive push the pace guard that will get out and run and penetrate.

Remember how much different things looked with Shved looking to push the ball and attack the rim on a consistent basis. Shved was also considered a somewhat out of control player and a tweener. Not really a PG or a SG, but capable of both. This system really fits a player like that. It's basically the Kobe/Jordan/Pippen/Odom types. Versatile Guard/Forwards with PG like skills.

he just did with fredette.

JIMMER? Come on man. I see nothing wrong with Phil bringing him up but at least Wroten stands some chance of being able to physically guard guys at the NBA level. When Wroten got a shot to start he did a decent job for a 21 year old kid who hadn't fully developed his jumper and leading a really horrid team. I see no comparison between the potential of the 2 players. Wroten still has plenty of upside. If he can improve his shooting even a little bit he'd already be a far better player overall than Jimmer.

My points still stand. NO GUARANTEES but Wroten fits what i've been describing as the prototype guard in this system. If he can catch on I think he fits with our other athletic young players. Some have nearly given up on Jerian, but he also fits the job description from a basic talent standpoint and just needs to get his head right. DWILL is another guy that I want to see spend more time in this system, learning and growing. People are often too quick to give up on some players or write them off before they even get a chance. People laughed at me when I was supporting Shved but then they understood once they saw him in a role that fit his talent.

These are flawed players or we wouldn't be able to get them for so cheap. Doesn't mean they will fail here and it doesn't mean they'll be stars either. We've gotta keep trying to find the right talent for the way they want this team to play. Gotta develop these guys cuz we know they're not perfect players yet.

so what do you think are his actual chances of success? 1-100 please.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:My only concern is the stability of the right knee acl which has been operated twice. That's def something to monitor for a guy who relies on his physical gifts so much

It's a worthy risk given the low cost and no guarantee long term. It's the prototypical low risk but high reward scenario! Aside from the injury issue, I like his talent and fit. Hopefully he works out cuz we can really use his speed and driving ability.

I get that we can be excited about new, young blood, but are his talents and fit really there? I kinda question that

Seems to me that Phil wouldn't waste his time if there wasn't at least some degree of fit for this system. Phil could've gone with a plethora of available young PG's out there from the D League. Wroten has the prototypical size and combo guard ability that you look for even with his rather poor shooting. Shooting is a skill he can improve on with hard work, but being 6-6, long, quick, athletic with great handle and a high motor are not things you can just make up for if you don't have it. It's actually a good thing he's not overly reliant on jump shooting.

Think about an even more athletic version of Shved. Shved struggled in the NBA shooting as well, but on the Knicks he found a comfort zone and looked MUCH better than he did in other situations. Part of that is the shots come in the same spots and a player can gain proficiency with practice. Not saying Wroten is a lock but he does have very similar physical talent and mental approach, such as being a naturally skilled and aggressive push the pace guard that will get out and run and penetrate.

Remember how much different things looked with Shved looking to push the ball and attack the rim on a consistent basis. Shved was also considered a somewhat out of control player and a tweener. Not really a PG or a SG, but capable of both. This system really fits a player like that. It's basically the Kobe/Jordan/Pippen/Odom types. Versatile Guard/Forwards with PG like skills.

he just did with fredette.

JIMMER? Come on man. I see nothing wrong with Phil bringing him up but at least Wroten stands some chance of being able to physically guard guys at the NBA level. When Wroten got a shot to start he did a decent job for a 21 year old kid who hadn't fully developed his jumper and leading a really horrid team. I see no comparison between the potential of the 2 players. Wroten still has plenty of upside. If he can improve his shooting even a little bit he'd already be a far better player overall than Jimmer.

My points still stand. NO GUARANTEES but Wroten fits what i've been describing as the prototype guard in this system. If he can catch on I think he fits with our other athletic young players. Some have nearly given up on Jerian, but he also fits the job description from a basic talent standpoint and just needs to get his head right. DWILL is another guy that I want to see spend more time in this system, learning and growing. People are often too quick to give up on some players or write them off before they even get a chance. People laughed at me when I was supporting Shved but then they understood once they saw him in a role that fit his talent.

These are flawed players or we wouldn't be able to get them for so cheap. Doesn't mean they will fail here and it doesn't mean they'll be stars either. We've gotta keep trying to find the right talent for the way they want this team to play. Gotta develop these guys cuz we know they're not perfect players yet.

so what do you think are his actual chances of success? 1-100 please.

Nothing i've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system. People bringing up his stint with Philly and that they let him go seems a bit dubious to me given Philly's decision making the last few years. Those guys are all over the place when it comes to player decisions.

Wroten has a HIGH motor! He's constantly attacking a defense and pushing the ball. We need those kinds of traits. The idea is to coach him up and teach him how to best use that talent. If any of our guards were putting up anywhere near 17/5/1.6 stls in 30 mpg we'd be in much better shape right now. He's got to get more efficient and improve all around but with a young guard that's not unusual. I'm glad we are taking a shot on him and looking to develop him. It's well worth the risk.

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:some career numbers in regards to wroten...
fg%: 41%
3pt fg: 23%
a/to: 3/2.6

these are horrid numbers...

Hmm, scary bad, especially for a pg

jump shooting team that signs a guy who couldn't shoot a jumper if his kids life depended on it.

Phil, please explain WTF your thinking.

Perhaps you've answered your own question. We NEED more speed, breakdown ability and athletic ability at guard. Wroten is a guard that is nearly impossible to stay in front of. With all the other things going on on the floor no team will be able to stop him. You can't guard Melo, RoLo, KP and also focus on Wroten constantly attacking.

Right now there's no fear of our guards going full court or getting to the rim and finishing off of Dribble Hand Off's or just simply breaking his man down. He doesn't need a PnR in order to get to the rim!!!

wow, talk about exaggeration. no team will be able to stop him? if he's THAT good, why did A) the sixers cut him and B) no one else pick him up?

if he was that good, some team would have overpaid for him already.

Do the Sixers have Melo, KP and RoLo? Do they run the Triangle? Did they run Pinch Post with Wroten?

It's not an exaggeration. If he's on the floor with our best players as I wrote, there's no way that a team will be able to focus on stopping him! It's exactly what happened with Schved. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way it actually works out in this offense.

In the Pinch Post you have a 2 man game on one side and an overload on the other. If you put a very quick, breakdown guard on the 2 Man Side of the floor in the Pinch Post, there's no way to give help against him without leaving gaping holes in your D. If they do come to help it will leave someone open. That's how it's worked for decades and it still works.

i was really rooting for Wroten to join this squad until you opened your mouth and said "unstoppable". since you talk out of your asz all the time, now i am second guessing myself. lol

honestly...we have to gauge how quick his first step really is. and how well he can pass the ball. we do not need another jerian grant.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

callmened wrote:My only concern is the stability of the right knee acl which has been operated twice. That's def something to monitor for a guy who relies on his physical gifts so much

It's a worthy risk given the low cost and no guarantee long term. It's the prototypical low risk but high reward scenario! Aside from the injury issue, I like his talent and fit. Hopefully he works out cuz we can really use his speed and driving ability.

I get that we can be excited about new, young blood, but are his talents and fit really there? I kinda question that

Seems to me that Phil wouldn't waste his time if there wasn't at least some degree of fit for this system. Phil could've gone with a plethora of available young PG's out there from the D League. Wroten has the prototypical size and combo guard ability that you look for even with his rather poor shooting. Shooting is a skill he can improve on with hard work, but being 6-6, long, quick, athletic with great handle and a high motor are not things you can just make up for if you don't have it. It's actually a good thing he's not overly reliant on jump shooting.

Think about an even more athletic version of Shved. Shved struggled in the NBA shooting as well, but on the Knicks he found a comfort zone and looked MUCH better than he did in other situations. Part of that is the shots come in the same spots and a player can gain proficiency with practice. Not saying Wroten is a lock but he does have very similar physical talent and mental approach, such as being a naturally skilled and aggressive push the pace guard that will get out and run and penetrate.

Remember how much different things looked with Shved looking to push the ball and attack the rim on a consistent basis. Shved was also considered a somewhat out of control player and a tweener. Not really a PG or a SG, but capable of both. This system really fits a player like that. It's basically the Kobe/Jordan/Pippen/Odom types. Versatile Guard/Forwards with PG like skills.

he just did with fredette.

JIMMER? Come on man. I see nothing wrong with Phil bringing him up but at least Wroten stands some chance of being able to physically guard guys at the NBA level. When Wroten got a shot to start he did a decent job for a 21 year old kid who hadn't fully developed his jumper and leading a really horrid team. I see no comparison between the potential of the 2 players. Wroten still has plenty of upside. If he can improve his shooting even a little bit he'd already be a far better player overall than Jimmer.

My points still stand. NO GUARANTEES but Wroten fits what i've been describing as the prototype guard in this system. If he can catch on I think he fits with our other athletic young players. Some have nearly given up on Jerian, but he also fits the job description from a basic talent standpoint and just needs to get his head right. DWILL is another guy that I want to see spend more time in this system, learning and growing. People are often too quick to give up on some players or write them off before they even get a chance. People laughed at me when I was supporting Shved but then they understood once they saw him in a role that fit his talent.

These are flawed players or we wouldn't be able to get them for so cheap. Doesn't mean they will fail here and it doesn't mean they'll be stars either. We've gotta keep trying to find the right talent for the way they want this team to play. Gotta develop these guys cuz we know they're not perfect players yet.

so what do you think are his actual chances of success? 1-100 please.

That kind of thing is your game! It's literally MEANINGLESS! How can anyone know for sure what's in the heart of a player? All i'm speaking of is his actual physical talent and skills for a young Guard who is just getting started in this league despite the fact he was drafted at 19. He turns 23 in April and is younger than both of our young guards who are still developing players. So Wroten is no different in that he's still developing.

Nothing i've posted about his Physical talent or Skills is off base in terms of his fit for the Big Guard Role in this system. People bringing up his stint with Philly and that they let him go seems a bit dubious to me given Philly's decision making the last few years. Those guys are all over the place when it comes to player decisions.

Wroten has a HIGH motor! He's constantly attacking a defense and pushing the ball. We need those kinds of traits. The idea is to coach him up and teach him how to best use that talent. If any of our guards were putting up anywhere near 17/5/1.6 stls in 30 mpg we'd be in much better shape right now. He's got to get more efficient and improve all around but with a young guard that's not unusual. I'm glad we are taking a shot on him and looking to develop him. It's well worth the risk.

Nobody knows anything "for sure". I asked what you think are his actual chances (%) for success.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/3/8/11179132/its-a-good-sign-that-the-knicks-like-tony-wroten