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Hinkie's Sixers: Bad Plan, Bad Execution, or both?
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WaltLongmire
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11/25/2015  5:05 PM
Fans in Philly would be much happier if they could see some human assets on the floor accumulating value in the form of experience and BB growth.

He needs LA to win some games and the lottery to go his way- he needs to pick up a couple of studs in the draft- at least 2 starter/future stars.

Based on the Sixers I saw on the floor in the Minny game, the only player I can be sure with any degree of certainty will be on the Sixers in 4 years is OK4, and this includes Noel.

I think Hinkie is building his sand castles a little too close to the waves right now.

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bigbasketballs
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11/25/2015  5:19 PM
Man, the CEO in love with processes down to the smallest detail is all too familiar to me.
mreinman
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11/25/2015  6:54 PM
Knixkik wrote:Just something to make note of, Milwaukee, Boston, and Minnesota have each executed Hinkie's plan better than he has, and they haven't tried to the extreme that he has. They have acquired major assets and young talents while progressing the franchise in the win column. Hinkie is at a standstill until he accomplishes what those teams have. He doesn't know how to accomplish both at the same time. That is a shame and a scam.

again, too early to say. He has not put the cake in the oven yet.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
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11/25/2015  7:07 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
bigbasketballs wrote:
mreinman wrote:I will try to find it but he talks specifically about not needing to hit a home run in the draft

Which is exactly what I think we agree his tenure is reliant upon… hitting home run in the 2016 draft.

Irony.

Might be here.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=49408

wow! I can read articles like that 100 times and still enjoy it each time.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
WaltLongmire
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11/25/2015  10:36 PM
mreinman wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Just something to make note of, Milwaukee, Boston, and Minnesota have each executed Hinkie's plan better than he has, and they haven't tried to the extreme that he has. They have acquired major assets and young talents while progressing the franchise in the win column. Hinkie is at a standstill until he accomplishes what those teams have. He doesn't know how to accomplish both at the same time. That is a shame and a scam.

again, too early to say. He has not put the cake in the oven yet.


Has not even decided whether to make the cake from scratch or buy a mix...forget about putting anything in the oven.
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WaltLongmire
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11/26/2015  11:21 PM

Inquirer Sports Poll

READER POLL

Are you still behind Sam Hinkie’s plan?


Yes. 1993 (42.7%)

No. 1645 (35.2%)

I was never behind it from the start. 1031 (22.1%)


Total votes = 4669

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CrushAlot
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11/27/2015  12:39 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:

Inquirer Sports Poll

READER POLL

Are you still behind Sam Hinkie’s plan?


Yes. 1993 (42.7%)

No. 1645 (35.2%)

I was never behind it from the start. 1031 (22.1%)


Total votes = 4669

I feel really bad for Brett Brown. With the Okafor situation I took a closer look at their roster. The team is really young(the second oldest player is 24), lacking in talent (6 undrafted guys and only 3 first round picks including Embiid), and has no role models. Going from winning a national championship to being 0-16 has to be really hard. The T-Wolves put a support system in place for Towns. Melo took it on himself to mentor KP. KP's family is living with him and supporting him. Not sure if Bryant is mentoring Russell but he is a hof vet. Hinkie just doesn't see all of the aspects of team building. Okafor is a franchise cornerstone if nurtured, mentored and taught the right way. Putting him in a position where his gm's goal is to lose more for the next guy up to add talent that won't be mentored misses the mark. The guy is supposed to have added state of the art work out facilities and state of the art nutrition plans for his players. But he ignores or doesn't see so much that is important to team building. It is a really bad situation for the Sixer players, coaches, and fans.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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11/27/2015  8:30 AM
aprospos to this discussion my cousin lives in PA and the whole family are Eagles, 76rs, Philis, etc fans.

We had a LONG chat about what Phili is doing. He's not a casual fan, he's a mental case. I would say he's as dialed in as anyone on this board is dialed into the Knicks.

Here was his take:
100% believes in the plan

With OK4/Noels/Embid (thinks one will be moved) + 4 first rounders next year gives them the talent base to add FAs and spend if guys are willing to come. No point in doing it before then

Says perception of not caring about the players is BS, and they are really focused on player development and giving these kids everything they need to grow

Says they have blown alot of late games and playing harder than people give them credit for

Is enjoying the process despite the losses. Knows its hard to get talent in Phili and building a base of youth FIRST is te only chance to lure quality vets

Maybe he's the nixluva of the Phili world, but for what its worth he's a die hard fan who likes the plan and thinks they are one draft away. Also they have the chips to trade for a star player if the chance arrives.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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11/27/2015  10:19 AM
fishmike wrote:aprospos to this discussion my cousin lives in PA and the whole family are Eagles, 76rs, Philis, etc fans.

We had a LONG chat about what Phili is doing. He's not a casual fan, he's a mental case. I would say he's as dialed in as anyone on this board is dialed into the Knicks.

Here was his take:
100% believes in the plan

With OK4/Noels/Embid (thinks one will be moved) + 4 first rounders next year gives them the talent base to add FAs and spend if guys are willing to come. No point in doing it before then

Says perception of not caring about the players is BS, and they are really focused on player development and giving these kids everything they need to grow

Says they have blown alot of late games and playing harder than people give them credit for

Is enjoying the process despite the losses. Knows its hard to get talent in Phili and building a base of youth FIRST is te only chance to lure quality vets

Maybe he's the nixluva of the Phili world, but for what its worth he's a die hard fan who likes the plan and thinks they are one draft away. Also they have the chips to trade for a star player if the chance arrives.

good stuff fishmike!

so here is what phil is thinking ....
CrushAlot
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11/27/2015  10:24 AM
If you go to Phillysports.com's Sixers forum the most read thread is the 15-16 NBA Draft Lottery Thread.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
fishmike
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11/27/2015  11:31 AM
CrushAlot wrote:If you go to Phillysports.com's Sixers forum the most read thread is the 15-16 NBA Draft Lottery Thread.
maybe I was premature or listen too much to the media etc... Hinkie didnt have his own first rounder when he started.

*IF* they have a good draft next year and *IF* they can add some NBA players like the Knicks did this year they could have a roster loaded with young talent... much like what Minn did this offseason.

Time will tell.

I would say much like this offseason was Phil's make or break I would suspect the next one is Hinkie's

When I mentioned how the Knicks added some good but not shiney NBA players my cousin's response was funny... he said well you guys have Melo, so its a lot easier to rebuild when you can hit a home run in the draft and have a superstar coming back into the fold. Then you just need the role players.

LOL... (sigh)

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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11/27/2015  12:06 PM
fishmike wrote:Maybe he's the nixluva of the Phili world, but for what its worth he's a die hard fan who likes the plan and thinks they are one draft away. Also they have the chips to trade for a star player if the chance arrives.

Hey! There's nothing wrong with being the nixluva of Philly! 😜

I was very clear in explaining my trust in Phil's plan and it's well documented here what I said Phil planned to do. It turned out pretty much how I predicted. I can't claim to know if your cousin studied Hinkie like I did Phil but for his sake I hope he's right in his belief in Hinkie.

WaltLongmire
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11/27/2015  12:13 PM
CrushAlot wrote:If you go to Phillysports.com's Sixers forum the most read thread is the 15-16 NBA Draft Lottery Thread.

On RealGm a popular thread with almost 40,000 views:

Sticky 2015-2016 LAL/Mia/OKC/SAC/GS pick watch
by HartfordWhalers » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:48 pm

764 +1
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WaltLongmire
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11/27/2015  12:21 PM
fishmike wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:If you go to Phillysports.com's Sixers forum the most read thread is the 15-16 NBA Draft Lottery Thread.
maybe I was premature or listen too much to the media etc... Hinkie didnt have his own first rounder when he started.

*IF* they have a good draft next year and *IF* they can add some NBA players like the Knicks did this year they could have a roster loaded with young talent... much like what Minn did this offseason.

Time will tell.

I would say much like this offseason was Phil's make or break I would suspect the next one is Hinkie's

When I mentioned how the Knicks added some good but not shiney NBA players my cousin's response was funny... he said well you guys have Melo, so its a lot easier to rebuild when you can hit a home run in the draft and have a superstar coming back into the fold. Then you just need the role players.

LOL... (sigh)

The Minnesota method...adding respected players well past their prime to mentor their young guys...is the way to go. Just have to find some vets who he is going to have to overpay.

The word is that the good FAs are not going to go to Philly, especially those looking for some late success before they leave the game.

Wonder if Elton Brand would be available- pretty solid citizen-former Sixer.

They do need some vet role models, though.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
Knixkik
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11/30/2015  3:55 PM
This keeps getting more interesting.

Even more concerns about Jahlil Okafor and Sixers emerge:


Add attempting to use a fake ID to the list of recent wrongdoings committed by Jahlil Okafor (right). (USA Today Images)

It’s been a rough week for Jahlil Okafor and the Sixers. With each report concerning the conduct of the Sixers’ rookie and his teammates, questions abound about the way the organization has handled a roster full of young players.

In late October, Okafor allegedly presented a fake I.D. at Misconduct Tavern in Center City, according to two sources with knowledge of the situation. Okafor, 19, was refused service, the sources said. One of the sources said he was surprised because Okafor is “a big guy” and “famous” and “pretty easy to recognize.”

Over the weekend, the Philadelphia Inquirer also reported that Okafor was stopped for speeding on the Ben Franklin Bridge while going in excess of 100 miles per hour. While the team was in Memphis on Sunday, Brett Brown called the reports “concerning.”

On Thanksgiving, TMZ posted a video that showed Okafor getting in a physical altercation outside a Boston nightclub. The incident occurred more than a month and a half after the most-alarming situation to date. According to a witness and two separate reports filed by the Philadelphia Police Department and U.S. Park Rangers and obtained by CSNPhilly.com, Okafor had a gun pointed at him during an argument outside an Old City nightclub on Oct. 4 after 2 a.m.

Okafor and an acquaintance got into a disagreement with two men parked in a car near the corner of 2nd and Walnut Streets when Okafor tried to punch the driver through the open driver’s side window, according to a witness. The passenger then exited the car and pointed a gun at Okafor and an acquaintance before U.S. Park Rangers arrived on the scene and chased the gunman off, per the witness and both reports. The gunman was not apprehended, and the driver fled in a black Camaro with red stripes.

It’s unclear if the driver also had a weapon. The investigation is ongoing, and PPD has suspects in the case. A law enforcement source told CSNPhilly.com that the suspected driver has a permit to carry a concealed weapon. If he had a registered gun and pulled it during the argument, the law enforcement source said, he could make a case for self-defense if it can be proven that Okafor tried to punch the driver through the car window as the witness claims. The law enforcement source said that the driver has no weapons registered in his name, but it’s possible that he recently purchased one and it has yet to appear in the database. That can sometimes take a month or more, the law enforcement source said. He also added that it’s unlikely that the unidentified passenger who fled on foot has a concealed carry permit since he tossed his weapon, according to witnesses. A gun magazine was recovered nearby and submitted for fingerprint analysis.

According to sources, Okafor was accompanied that night by several Sixers. The Sixers finished training camp at Stockton University in Galloway, NJ, on Saturday, Oct. 3. According to sources, several players, including Okafor and JaKarr Sampson, went out that evening (and into the morning of Oct. 4) to celebrate. A Mercedes-Benz Sprinter bus was hired to ferry the players around, the sources said.

Okafor was also accompanied by at least one teammate during the altercation in Boston last week, according to the Inquirer. The paper reported that 20-year-old Christian Wood was with Okafor at the time.

On Monday, the Philadelphia Daily News reported that several Sixers were involved in a New Jersey traffic stop two years ago and “a small amount of pot was found in the car” but no charges were filed. The report added that “the majority of those players are no longer with the team.”

Taken in total, there are concerns about what kind of culture the Sixers are fostering and about the attendant supervision of their players. It’s certainly not unusual for professional athletes to go out together, but the Sixers have the youngest roster in the NBA. One league executive said “a couple of [veterans]” would help “off the court.” He also called the Sixers “a joke to the entire league.”

Another front office member for another team questioned “why the Sixers won’t surround those guys with security.”

“Damn near every team does that,” the executive said, “especially with their top guys. I guess the Sixers know more than everyone else again.”

It is believed the Sixers do have security personnel available, but the players must request the service. A Sixers spokesman could not be reached for comment on that point.

The overarching issue is about what kind of environment is being fostered, one of the executives said. As he noted, there have been previous questions about how the team has handled other, less serious matters involving its young stars and their development.

In Monday’s aforementioned Daily News story, Nerlens Noel was reportedly “heavily fined” for “repeated tardiness and other violations” while recovering from a knee injury during his rookie season. Joel Embiid, who has yet to play for the Sixers, was reportedly sent home from a road trip last year for “insubordination.” A recent story by the Cauldron also questioned Embiid’s dietary habits and claimed he delayed a second surgery on his foot because he was “determined to go to [Las] Vegas to party for the balance of the 10 days of summer league.” The story cited sources that said owner Joshua Harris had instructed Sam Hinkie and Brett Brown to keep Embiid away from Las Vegas, to no avail.

“It’s a bad look for [the Sixers],” one league executive said. “This is the big issue with their plan. You get a bunch of talented kids — OK, but they’re still kids. Where are the adults?”

WaltLongmire
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11/30/2015  4:29 PM
^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...

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Knixkik
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11/30/2015  4:35 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...


The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.
mreinman
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11/30/2015  4:40 PM
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...


The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Knixkik
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11/30/2015  4:47 PM
mreinman wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...


The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

mreinman
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11/30/2015  4:52 PM
Knixkik wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:^^^ Does the fake ID pretty much provide confirmation that he's been drinking?

Guy needs to be suspended and lose some $$. He has to see that his actions will have consequences.

Don't think he's missed any games, and since in one of the incidents he seems to refer to the importance of money, the loss of some of it might be the only way to get his attention.

When it rains it pours...


The fake ID proves he attempted to get into a 21+ bar/club. While the drinking part can be safely assumed, i doubt it can be proven definitively. I do however think he needs to be suspended for conduct detrimental to the team to set an example, but this is just another by-product of a very flawed rebuilding effort.

I love how you keep saying that his actions are in fact a flaw in the rebuilding effort. There have been many many tools like JR who have acted like dikheads with vets.

No that is not what i am saying. It's the other way around. I am looking at it from the Sixer's perspective. His actions are on him and his responsibility (or lack thereof). But Hinkie will run into these types of issues when building a team of kids with no support system in place. And since he values talent over character/injury concerns/overseas contracts etc, these are the types of things he must expect, which i am sure he did not. I don't blame the Sixers plan for Okafor's mistakes. I blame the Sixer's plan for not anticipating these types of issues in general.

has it been an issue with other players? Would KP have done this if he were drafted? Russell? Towns?

Hinkie lost out on KP who is a much much better player and person (at this point). That is on him.

I do think that Hinkie will have a different type of offseason this time.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Hinkie's Sixers: Bad Plan, Bad Execution, or both?

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