StarksEwing1 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I wouldn't fault the Knicks for picking Zinger. He could easily be the best player in this draft. He's one of those guys that scouts drool over, a two way big man that shoot, finish, and run like a gazelle. Basketball in his dna. The fabled once in a generation label.

history isnt good on euro players being taken high. Ive seen him play and i agree he has talent but i wasnt blown away

I look at individual players and where they are taken in the draft. I could go down the list of highly touted American players who were complete busts- guys who many around here might have liked at one point before the draft.

You have two Euros easily worthy of a top 8 consideration or higher- Hezonja and Porzingis. Each has as much or more basketball ability as their U.S. counterparts, and are in the same league athletically, and maybe more so.

If they had played here it would be a no doubter that they would be seen as top 5 talent by everyone here.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I wouldn't fault the Knicks for picking Zinger. He could easily be the best player in this draft. He's one of those guys that scouts drool over, a two way big man that shoot, finish, and run like a gazelle. Basketball in his dna. The fabled once in a generation label.

history isnt good on euro players being taken high. Ive seen him play and i agree he has talent but i wasnt blown away

I look at individual players and where they are taken in the draft. I could go down the list of highly touted American players who were complete busts- guys who many around here might have liked at one point before the draft.

You have two Euros easily worthy of a top 8 consideration or higher- Hezonja and Porzingis. Each has as much or more basketball ability as their U.S. counterparts, and are in the same league athletically, and maybe more so.

If they had played here it would be a no doubter that they would be seen as top 5 talent by everyone here.

im strictly talking about european players. Yes american players have been busts but thats not the point.

A key gap you get with most big men is that they get the ball and their next move is premeditated. Or they only see their defender.

Sound basketball (and especially the triangle) benefits when everyone on the floor has a cerebral part to their game. Zinger has enough physical components but can he make smart, winning plays? We saw both kat and okafor make winning plays for their teams all year. Kat did what his team asked, changed his contributions based on the situation. Okafor's team won it all, with him evolving from key focal point to decoy.

There isn't as much awareness for what Zinger did last year. We do know his stats were pretty comparable to kat's against probably higher competition than division I.

ESOMKnicks wrote:In all fairness, Darko and Bargs also looked pretty awesome in their pre-draft videos back in the days, arguably even better than Porz. So, one never knows.

Darko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxUI-_DNASU

Bargnani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzqJyADNaJI

Compared to Dirk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMSe1Injiw

Attitude, lack of fire and work ethic sunk Darko and Bargs, not a lack of talent

ESOMKnicks wrote:In all fairness, Darko and Bargs also looked pretty awesome in their pre-draft videos back in the days, arguably even better than Porz. So, one never knows.

Darko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxUI-_DNASU

Bargnani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzqJyADNaJI

Compared to Dirk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMSe1Injiw

I would argue that Porzingis looked better. Those guys were drafted during an era of international drafts. So the first 7fter we saw with basketball skilks....they got a high draft grade. Porzingis moves like a guard.....hes more fluent and will play SF or PF. In the past everybody was trying to force 7 fters into the post. In todays game....its not as physical so guard play dominates every game. And when you have a 7fter with a green light to shoot....its a different game. Thats where he will build up confidence and eventually florish. The only reason i here experts say we should pass on him is because of us the fans. No patiences. ....

smackeddog wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:In all fairness, Darko and Bargs also looked pretty awesome in their pre-draft videos back in the days, arguably even better than Porz. So, one never knows.

Darko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxUI-_DNASU

Bargnani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzqJyADNaJI

Compared to Dirk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMSe1Injiw

Attitude, lack of fire and work ethic sunk Darko and Bargs, not a lack of talent

If you heard the Darko broadcast- he had just turned 18- he really needed another year or two of seasoning. He was about a year and a few months younger than Winslow, who might be the youngest player in this draft.

Would not have picked him that high, but I thought Darko could have been an excellent defender with a decent post-up offense. His outside game was always limited. Poor shooter- FT % never got better in his career- for me this is an indication of poor shooting form and a lack of practice. He would have been better off with a rebuilding team, instead of one that had reached the ECF the year before.

You also have to consider that Ben Wallace was the defensive force on that Piston's team and his offensive game was lame. I think Detroit thought Darko would be a large Ben Wallace with a somewhat better offensive game. Also have to remember who their GM was, and the kind of teams he played on. Dumars must have seen Darko and had flashbacks to the kind of roughneck bigs his Piston's teams had. Hamilton, Billups, and Prince were all in their prime. Rasheed was 29, and Okur, a solid big, was 24 (losing him was a big loss). Appears to me that he was looking to build a Bad Boys 2.0. Big mistake by Dumars.

Funny thing about the Bargs clip, he was actually active on D, and helped out a few times. If he played like that he would still be on Toronto.

Also have to say this about Bargnani, and this is something Porzingis is aware of because he's talked about it so much, but is still something to think about.

Bargs has not changed physically from the time he came out of Italy. You look at Gasol's body from his time in Spain until now, and it is more than obvious that he worked out to get stronger. He had a reputation for being a softer player at one time- no way you can say that now. Bargs looks older, but for the most part he has the same body as he did in the clip. Another work ethic problem.

Dirk looked great in that clip. You could see how advanced his game was at that time. Do not recall seeing that fall back shot of his. Is he the original stretch 4?

Not going into specifics of Porzingis' game- kind of pointless at this time, but there is enough video out there which shows you that he might very well be a special player, and at the very least a good one. That Vegas workout is eye candy for the general populace and something GMs might use to sell him as a pick to the Europhobes out there. His "profile" might have been built up, but as I've said over and over again to some of the more obtuse posters on UK, he's not a recently converted volleyball player who took up hoops for a payday or because some coach convinced him to come out. Because he pulled out of the draft last year, he has probably been scouted as much as anyone in this draft.

Just find that article where he mentions that the thing he's looking forward to most in the NBA is having a bloody key card so he can go work out in a gym at night. That's what sets him apart from guys like Darko and Bargs, who never improved on the games they brought over from Europe.

blkexec wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:In all fairness, Darko and Bargs also looked pretty awesome in their pre-draft videos back in the days, arguably even better than Porz. So, one never knows.

Darko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxUI-_DNASU

Bargnani
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzqJyADNaJI

Compared to Dirk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCMSe1Injiw

Attitude, lack of fire and work ethic sunk Darko and Bargs, not a lack of talent

If you heard the Darko broadcast- he had just turned 18- he really needed another year or two of seasoning. He was about a year and a few months younger than Winslow, who might be the youngest player in this draft.

Would not have picked him that high, but I thought Darko could have been an excellent defender with a decent post-up offense. His outside game was always limited. Poor shooter- FT % never got better in his career- for me this is an indication of poor shooting form and a lack of practice. He would have been better off with a rebuilding team, instead of one that had reached the ECF the year before.

You also have to consider that Ben Wallace was the defensive force on that Piston's team and his offensive game was lame. I think Detroit thought Darko would be a large Ben Wallace with a somewhat better offensive game. Also have to remember who their GM was, and the kind of teams he played on. Dumars must have seen Darko and had flashbacks to the kind of roughneck bigs his Piston's teams had. Hamilton, Billups, and Prince were all in their prime. Rasheed was 29, and Okur, a solid big, was 24 (losing him was a big loss). Appears to me that he was looking to build a Bad Boys 2.0. Big mistake by Dumars.

Funny thing about the Bargs clip, he was actually active on D, and helped out a few times. If he played like that he would still be on Toronto.

Also have to say this about Bargnani, and this is something Porzingis is aware of because he's talked about it so much, but is still something to think about.

Bargs has not changed physically from the time he came out of Italy. You look at Gasol's body from his time in Spain until now, and it is more than obvious that he worked out to get stronger. He had a reputation for being a softer player at one time- no way you can say that now. Bargs looks older, but for the most part he has the same body as he did in the clip. Another work ethic problem.

Dirk looked great in that clip. You could see how advanced his game was at that time. Do not recall seeing that fall back shot of his. Is he the original stretch 4?

Not going into specifics of Porzingis' game- kind of pointless at this time, but there is enough video out there which shows you that he might very well be a special player, and at the very least a good one. That Vegas workout is eye candy for the general populace and something GMs might use to sell him as a pick to the Europhobes out there. His "profile" might have been built up, but as I've said over and over again to some of the more obtuse posters on UK, he's not a recently converted volleyball player who took up hoops for a payday or because some coach convinced him to come out. Because he pulled out of the draft last year, he has probably been scouted as much as anyone in this draft.

Just find that article where he mentions that the thing he's looking forward to most in the NBA is having a bloody key card so he can go work out in a gym at night. That's what sets him apart from guys like Darko and Bargs, who never improved on the games they brought over from Europe.

The other thing is mental confidence. Darko and bargs were mentally weak. And as much as you think basketball is all about physical....its more than that. Without mental confidence you already lost. This is why i thing that mario shooter could be the best international player in the draft. Nice talents euro players dont typically last long. You havr to have an edge regardless where u are from. Thats why i can play with these nba guys....i act like i belong.....i play physical.....and i dont come across as mr.nice guy.....off the court its the exact opposite. The euro players ive played with are almost too nice and too afraid to get physical. You dont have to be muscle strong ( though it helps) to be physical.

If his confidence carries overseas, a lot of teams might regret passing him up at some point.

I am constantly surprised that more around here are not talking about him.

DJMUSIC wrote:My opinion
Don't take no rocket scientist or science

The drama and good hype with Porgzingy..being in now every one top 5
must can't pick,

These picks only works for good teams or already great NBA teams that can
Store away such prospect talent for 6 month.. to 1 full year

This guy need to bulk up and not quite ready yet NBA Oct.2015 yet
As far as chit chat

Don't make any sense for poor teams like Nets or worse teams like Knickerbockers to
Even think of selecting pending talent based on hype and stow away.

The teams whom are bad like our knickerbockers has way way too many needs
When their sole 4th pick nyk needs to hit at least a triple if not a homerun / grand slam in draft.

That is either Winslow,
Russell, Okafor at minimum. DJ is not as high on Emmanuel M.,
Guy whom is skilled but has entourage and his own self hype,
I don't like guys whom can't shoot but rest of their game is all they believe about for success.

Players above will be good in NBA

Porzinggy, whether he is great for triangle offense or not is moot point
Knicks need not bother here with their one pick cause rest of NBA will expose
All the hype and these players will need to redo their game to adapt to NBA.

He would die to get Towns, who does everything you would want a Triangle big to do. He seems to believe the Lakers are taking OK4, who he also wanted. That would leave everything up to Philly.

If I was Jackson (or Hinkie, for that matter) and had to choose between Russell and Porzingis, I would take Russell, even though I love Porzingis as a player and future star. Russell can play both guard positions and is already stronger than he was in college, and he has the swagger you want in NYC, as well as the ability to make others better in the right offense. There might be an interesting battle for the soul of the team between Anthony and Russell, if we get him.

Have no idea what Winslow looked like in his workout with us. I know he is a winner and I've read about his competitiveness. Still wonder about his overall shooting ability and how he fits in with the Knicks as presently constituted. Not sure he is a SG. I would take the Latvian over him, but would understand why some would not. Porzingis has more potential, but even now he would have the ability to do what Jason Smith or Bargs did last year. His shot is pure and he can be a good help defender. I admit, though, that the Knicks fan base would be more comfortable with Winslow, a more known commodity. Not going to be banging my head if we take him, though.

If you are talking strictly about the Triangle, and a guy who can step in relatively quickly, I think that if the big 3 are off the board, I would try to get Kaminsky, somehow. He is probably more ready for such a disciplined offense than any of the other players out there. Best passing big out there (remember, he was a guard at some point), a very good ball handler, and his outside shot is a good as any big man in the draft. He is also one of the smarter players in the draft. Many folks, including me, are forgetting how talented he is, and the fact that he's worked on his fitness makes him even more appealing.