foosballnick wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are nuts if you think Phil and Fish aren't PERFECTLY equipped to handle a player like Melo after dealing with Kobe or MJ. Melo is not going to be a problem for them. One thing that also gives hope is how Melo played during the Olympics. After fighting MDA all season, he goes and does EXACTLY what MDA was asking him to do, in being more of a catch and shoot player and staying within the flow of the offense. There's no reason why we can't expect Melo to play in this system given the way it's setup for players with his skills already.

Melo will only have to buy in to the idea that he will have to do less in order for his team to do more. I think once he sees the team winning playing that way, he won't be a problem. We saw that for a while when the team was winning 2 years ago. He won't be a problem.

Is our rookie coach better equipped to deal with him than MDA was?

Of course he does because he was hand picked by Phil Jackson.

Ah, hand-picked by our rookie GM!

Yes ... who was handpicked by our veteran owner.

who has been a failure so far with this team..

Phil has been a failure based on what? Your extreme minority opinion? He made the most acclaimed trade amongst fans and media for this team in a very long time. He got assets while unloading dead weight, just what everyone has asked for. He also challenged Melo and resigned him at less than max, and we are the only team that pushed for him to sign for less than we could have signed him for. Any other GM of this team would have just offered the max and figured the rest out later. Kerr was the only misfire, but he landed a candidate of equal potential. Phil has been as good as we could have asked for. But again, thats the majority, not you and the other 1% who think Melo isn't worth the MLE in this league lol.

I was refering to dolan... and please phil caved he could have gone ahead and given him all the money and it would not have made any difference... caremlo taking a discount here is akin to your mom asking you as a kid to clean your room and you take all the junk and shove it under your bed and say..." Rooms clean".... This was a sham of a discount, and it is just breathtakingly ridiculous that you guys are actually giving props and buying into him Giving a discount... LOL.. I mean really man? really?

Kerr was the only misfire, but he landed a candidate of equal potential. Phil has been as good as we could have asked for. But again, thats the majority, not you and the other 1% who think Melo isn't worth the MLE in this league lol.

do you really think fisher is of equal potential? then I ask why did phil go so hard after kerr, remember kerr was already an exec in this league..

Phil has been averaged and has done what any GM in the league could have.. for 60 mil I expected more, a good GM IMO would have have been pushing for a sign and trade with the bulls... if we just brought phil in to chase and overpay carmelo, I say we wasted 60 mil on phil.. any GM, any could have offered a max to a greedy player who only wants money... and would have easily succeeded...

Listen, I like phil... AS a coach.. if he were coaching the knicks I would feel a bit different.. to me he has a lot to prove as a GM.. and Prez..

I think Fisher ends up being the better coach. Not sure that Kerr would be coaching the summer league team but what Fisher, and Rambis have done with the knicks squad has been very impressive. Fisher appears to be a natural. Fish was standing with his team up 30+ points in the summer league with under a minute left yesterday. The guy is locked in.

FISH IS A smart guy, I hope he turns out to be a good coach, would have been much better had he been coaching a team full of just young guys and no pressure to win now...

Didn't you post that you were "gone" if Melo was resigned? Are you not a man of your word?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47903&page=1

season hasn't started yet...

tkf wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

Wow, this guy just compared Phil to Isiah! I don't see an epic failure like bankrupting the CBA on Phil's resume before coming here, do you? After Isiah's playing days ended, him being successful at any job he was employed at also came to end. After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench. Whether he was the best or not is another argument, but he was the most successful. I would think he deserves more than 3 months with a capped out team, no picks and disaster of a roster to mold a team before being mentioned in the same sentence as Isiah or his tenure being a failure.

I don't like that he gave Melo as much money as he did but I plan giving him some time on the job before the doom and gloom starts

WOW no I didn't... where is the comparison... I said if we are going to assume having rings makes you a good GM, then by all acoounts Isiah should have been Great as well... so where is the comparison?

After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench.

And please show me where that is in question? by anyone on this site...

now, I ask you.. where does being a Great coach mean you will be a Great GM? and where does having rings translate into being a great GM?

Riley

And west to an extent

Bird has gotten close

mreinman wrote:Bonn, it sounds like you have also come to the conclusion that Phil is an idiot. No?

No, I wouldn't say that. I'm skeptical but I haven't come to any conclusions.

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

Wow, this guy just compared Phil to Isiah! I don't see an epic failure like bankrupting the CBA on Phil's resume before coming here, do you? After Isiah's playing days ended, him being successful at any job he was employed at also came to end. After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench. Whether he was the best or not is another argument, but he was the most successful. I would think he deserves more than 3 months with a capped out team, no picks and disaster of a roster to mold a team before being mentioned in the same sentence as Isiah or his tenure being a failure.

I don't like that he gave Melo as much money as he did but I plan giving him some time on the job before the doom and gloom starts

WOW no I didn't... where is the comparison... I said if we are going to assume having rings makes you a good GM, then by all acoounts Isiah should have been Great as well... so where is the comparison?

After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench.

And please show me where that is in question? by anyone on this site...

now, I ask you.. where does being a Great coach mean you will be a Great GM? and where does having rings translate into being a great GM?

Riley

And west to an extent

Bird has gotten close

tkfs point is pretty basic to me and it sure seems like folks are piling on cuz they dont like his rep. tend to agree with his point: jackson has a lot to prove and all that winning wont make sure he does the same in a role he has never had before.

hes got 5 years to show something, barring dolan doesnt strike.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:Bonn, it sounds like you have also come to the conclusion that Phil is an idiot. No?

No, I wouldn't say that. I'm skeptical but I haven't come to any conclusions.

Fair enough.

I'm not happy with the contract but I don't believe that anyone (professional) even remotely suggested that Phil should/could let him walk.

It does stink that his hands were tied.

sidsanders wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

Wow, this guy just compared Phil to Isiah! I don't see an epic failure like bankrupting the CBA on Phil's resume before coming here, do you? After Isiah's playing days ended, him being successful at any job he was employed at also came to end. After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench. Whether he was the best or not is another argument, but he was the most successful. I would think he deserves more than 3 months with a capped out team, no picks and disaster of a roster to mold a team before being mentioned in the same sentence as Isiah or his tenure being a failure.

I don't like that he gave Melo as much money as he did but I plan giving him some time on the job before the doom and gloom starts

WOW no I didn't... where is the comparison... I said if we are going to assume having rings makes you a good GM, then by all acoounts Isiah should have been Great as well... so where is the comparison?

After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench.

And please show me where that is in question? by anyone on this site...

now, I ask you.. where does being a Great coach mean you will be a Great GM? and where does having rings translate into being a great GM?

Riley

And west to an extent

Bird has gotten close

tkfs point is pretty basic to me and it sure seems like folks are piling on cuz they dont like his rep. tend to agree with his point: jackson has a lot to prove and all that winning wont make sure he does the same in a role he has never had before.

hes got 5 years to show something, barring dolan doesnt strike.

exactly!!!

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

How many has Krause built without Phil? How many has West built without Phil? How many has Kupchak built without Phil?

All that proves is that phil was a great coach and coached the teams that were already built.. I ask you again.. HOW MANY TEAMS HAS PHIL BUILT..

Please stick to the question..

Lakers were 34-48 04-05 the year before they re hired Phil Jackson. That's not an already built team. Do you feel that Phil Jacskon had a lot of say in personnel decisions for the Lakers as the built up to the championship team in 2009-2010?

A lot of say? what does that mean? for that matter we can assume every coach has a lot of say, right? so every coach would make a great GM, right? I don't get your point... Phil has never been a GM this is not a given..

It is like saying jason Kidd had a lot of say of what went on when he was on the floor playing.. Do you think jason kidd is a great coach? even good?

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:Pop would also make a great GM.

Curious if a GREAT coach ever failed as a GM.

how many great coaches have ever gone that route? definition of great would have to include winning titles?

Very few but the ones that did seemed to succeed (off the top of my head).

Riley, West ...???

I do think that great coaches like Jackson and Popovich are almost GM's since they are involved in all personnel decisions.

The only question is ... how will he do being the final say in all decisions. My money is on him since he is a proven winner in life.

west didnt win any titles so i dont put him into the great coaches cat. riley i can agree on. i really cant think of many that fit this one way or the other from coach --> gm. don nelson maybe, though does he count as a massive success in the gm role? he has had mixed results.

I would not include Nelson.

I think that great coaches remain coaches until they retire. Phil and Riley are Hybrids.

Based on Phils leadership skills and past history, don't you have much more faith in his success as a GM than you would most others? I do.

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:Pop would also make a great GM.

Curious if a GREAT coach ever failed as a GM.

how many great coaches have ever gone that route? definition of great would have to include winning titles?

Very few but the ones that did seemed to succeed (off the top of my head).

Riley, West ...???

I do think that great coaches like Jackson and Popovich are almost GM's since they are involved in all personnel decisions.

The only question is ... how will he do being the final say in all decisions. My money is on him since he is a proven winner in life.

west didnt win any titles so i dont put him into the great coaches cat. riley i can agree on. i really cant think of many that fit this one way or the other from coach --> gm. don nelson maybe, though does he count as a massive success in the gm role? he has had mixed results.

I would not include Nelson.

I think that great coaches remain coaches until they retire. Phil and Riley are Hybrids.

Based on Phils leadership skills and past history, don't you have much more faith in his success as a GM than you would most others? I do.

right now no. he did a lot of that operating out of a different role (player/coach). he is making a transition to this new job and im not so sure some of what made him the coach he was will make that much diff as a gm.

i can wait to see if it works. i have low expectations.

Knixkik wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

Wow, this guy just compared Phil to Isiah! I don't see an epic failure like bankrupting the CBA on Phil's resume before coming here, do you? After Isiah's playing days ended, him being successful at any job he was employed at also came to end. After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench. Whether he was the best or not is another argument, but he was the most successful. I would think he deserves more than 3 months with a capped out team, no picks and disaster of a roster to mold a team before being mentioned in the same sentence as Isiah or his tenure being a failure.

I don't like that he gave Melo as much money as he did but I plan giving him some time on the job before the doom and gloom starts

WOW no I didn't... where is the comparison... I said if we are going to assume having rings makes you a good GM, then by all acoounts Isiah should have been Great as well... so where is the comparison?

After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench.

And please show me where that is in question? by anyone on this site...

now, I ask you.. where does being a Great coach mean you will be a Great GM? and where does having rings translate into being a great GM?

Riley

And west to an extent

Bird has gotten close

tkfs point is pretty basic to me and it sure seems like folks are piling on cuz they dont like his rep. tend to agree with his point: jackson has a lot to prove and all that winning wont make sure he does the same in a role he has never had before.

hes got 5 years to show something, barring dolan doesnt strike.

It's naive to say he hasn't been in that role to an extent just because he hasn't had the title. Phil has had an influence in all decision-making for his teams. But if people are looking for him to prove it where that is his official title and he is not on the bench, and nothing else matters, thats fine.

was he negotiating contracts, conducting trades, was he running the scouting organization/draft, was he hiring other FO personel? having input is one thing, running that show and the other items that go with the FO role are different than being the coach.

maybe he has had more input than what it seems to me, however dont most folks think jerry west was a decent gm he worked for? maybe jerry and mitch have taken some knocks for sure, however there seemed to be some defined roles in chi and la during jacksons time there.

as i noted, hes got time.

tkf wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are nuts if you think Phil and Fish aren't PERFECTLY equipped to handle a player like Melo after dealing with Kobe or MJ. Melo is not going to be a problem for them. One thing that also gives hope is how Melo played during the Olympics. After fighting MDA all season, he goes and does EXACTLY what MDA was asking him to do, in being more of a catch and shoot player and staying within the flow of the offense. There's no reason why we can't expect Melo to play in this system given the way it's setup for players with his skills already.

Melo will only have to buy in to the idea that he will have to do less in order for his team to do more. I think once he sees the team winning playing that way, he won't be a problem. We saw that for a while when the team was winning 2 years ago. He won't be a problem.

Is our rookie coach better equipped to deal with him than MDA was?

Of course he does because he was hand picked by Phil Jackson.

Ah, hand-picked by our rookie GM!

Yes ... who was handpicked by our veteran owner.

who has been a failure so far with this team..

Phil has been a failure based on what? Your extreme minority opinion? He made the most acclaimed trade amongst fans and media for this team in a very long time. He got assets while unloading dead weight, just what everyone has asked for. He also challenged Melo and resigned him at less than max, and we are the only team that pushed for him to sign for less than we could have signed him for. Any other GM of this team would have just offered the max and figured the rest out later. Kerr was the only misfire, but he landed a candidate of equal potential. Phil has been as good as we could have asked for. But again, thats the majority, not you and the other 1% who think Melo isn't worth the MLE in this league lol.

I was refering to dolan... and please phil caved he could have gone ahead and given him all the money and it would not have made any difference... caremlo taking a discount here is akin to your mom asking you as a kid to clean your room and you take all the junk and shove it under your bed and say..." Rooms clean".... This was a sham of a discount, and it is just breathtakingly ridiculous that you guys are actually giving props and buying into him Giving a discount... LOL.. I mean really man? really?

Kerr was the only misfire, but he landed a candidate of equal potential. Phil has been as good as we could have asked for. But again, thats the majority, not you and the other 1% who think Melo isn't worth the MLE in this league lol.

do you really think fisher is of equal potential? then I ask why did phil go so hard after kerr, remember kerr was already an exec in this league..

Phil has been averaged and has done what any GM in the league could have.. for 60 mil I expected more, a good GM IMO would have have been pushing for a sign and trade with the bulls... if we just brought phil in to chase and overpay carmelo, I say we wasted 60 mil on phil.. any GM, any could have offered a max to a greedy player who only wants money... and would have easily succeeded...

Listen, I like phil... AS a coach.. if he were coaching the knicks I would feel a bit different.. to me he has a lot to prove as a GM.. and Prez..

I think Fisher ends up being the better coach. Not sure that Kerr would be coaching the summer league team but what Fisher, and Rambis have done with the knicks squad has been very impressive. Fisher appears to be a natural. Fish was standing with his team up 30+ points in the summer league with under a minute left yesterday. The guy is locked in.

FISH IS A smart guy, I hope he turns out to be a good coach, would have been much better had he been coaching a team full of just young guys and no pressure to win now...

Didn't you post that you were "gone" if Melo was resigned? Are you not a man of your word?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47903&page=1

season hasn't started yet...

And even when it does, you can always wait for the first sign of a losing streak for a miraculous re-appearance.