gunsnewing wrote:Good point Ron. Maybe we are looking towards 2016 now and Durant & Noah. Love it. And I'm actually going to enjoy watching this team in the meantime. Might even make the playoffs in an awful but improving east.

Papabear Says

My problem with you guys are that you are dreamers. You make false hope and dreams about Durant and Noah coming to NY in 2016. We make all the right moves and they don't come.
My opinion is that since we are down this slippery road we might as well build through the draft and develop young home grown players. And just because they have some struggles don't be wanting to trade for something worse or throw them under the bus. Let's build a home grown team. We had it before we traded for Melo and I like Melo but if Melo would have waited we might have become a contender or maybe not.

Papabear wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Papabear Says

We should have gotten a first round pick for Chandler and we didn't. How can I be happy about this deal.

Welcome to the dark side, lol.

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Quite honestly, I've stated my reasons on several occasions earlier in the trade. I only responded to yours because it seemed a little snobbish- as if the contrarians to your opinion are wrong simply because they disagree with your own opinion. Just to quickly rehash why I'm not a fan of this trade:

1.) Jose Calderon is 33 years old and owed $22 million over 3 years. It's ridiculous to me how you all want to characterize Tyson Chandler as ailing and declining but overlook that fact for Calderon. Dude is a bench player at this point in his career. Is he better than Raymond Felton? Yes but so is every ****ing PG in the league, so there is little consolation in that fact for me.

2.) Omer Asik got the Rockets a 1st round pick from a lottery team. Is this really the best we could do for a recent Defensive Player of the Year that is still better than Asik in most respects of the game? People are doing backflips for Shane Larkin but the dude was the 18th pick in one of the worst drafts in professional sporting history. That means that 17 teams thought that there were 17 flavors of **** that were better than him. And considering the washout rate for 5"11' guards in the league, I find it difficult to take solace in that or some 2nd round picks (albeit in a draft I'm actually excited about).

3.) Why are we assuming long-term money? Wasn't it sacrilege just a week ago to do that? And for what? A 33 year old PG that has been a fringe starter for his career?

Papabear Says

I agree with you. If Omer Asik got a his team a number draft pick and Chandler is better. How come we didn't get a 1 st rounder for Chandler. 33 year old point guard. Hey I thought we were getting younger. What happened?

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:anyone who thinks that the knicks didn't pretty much rape the mavs on this deal needs to check themselves. an aging center with lots of miles on his body and getting beat up all the time in the paint and no jump shot no free throw shooting skills and no passing out of the paint??? defensive rebounds are not worth that much!!!!!!!!! let's not forget that for 2 months he's pretty much out of commission during NY's winter.

and really people complaining about jose calderon's deal at 7 mill per? anyone here think he's not at least twice as good as fatboy felon? better decision making, better shooting and is not interested in challenging big guys in the paint at his age only makes him a smarter player with better mileage. look at dwayne wade... he's becoming a fraction of his championship self before our very eyes due to his crash in the paint type of play in the earlier years. miami is not going to resign him at the same salary as lebron, book it.

ok jose does not play defense and neither does ray ray.
if this deal was simply fluson and fatboy for calderon, i'd have been happy of addition by subtraction. but on top that, we get larkin, ellington, 2 picks...

these are all assets to be used in upcoming moves.... stay tuned! all hail Phil Jackson!

Your optimism is completely unfounded. I love how everything we traded was awful but everything we gained was impeccable. Unless you're dealing with the Hornets or Cavs, that is never the case when dealing with another team. So clearly you are overestimating what we are getting and underestimating what we gave the Mavs.

clearly YOU are underestimating Phil Jackson. I am not overestimating what we got at all. I know very little about Ellington or Larkin. But like I said... Calderon by himself to me is a deal I'd make for Chandler and Felton. Chandler's contract was expiring next year, but how many teams would be interested in giving us even this much for him after he spends Mid December to Mid Feb drinking TheraFlu at home??

I am not hailing Calderon as Chris Paul.... he is still light years smarter and better orchestrator and shooter than Felton. He definitely FITS way better.

If you truly feel that what we traded away was not awful, back it up by reasons as opposed to simply bashing what I said. smh.

Quite honestly, I've stated my reasons on several occasions earlier in the trade. I only responded to yours because it seemed a little snobbish- as if the contrarians to your opinion are wrong simply because they disagree with your own opinion. Just to quickly rehash why I'm not a fan of this trade:

1.) Jose Calderon is 33 years old and owed $22 million over 3 years. It's ridiculous to me how you all want to characterize Tyson Chandler as ailing and declining but overlook that fact for Calderon. Dude is a bench player at this point in his career. Is he better than Raymond Felton? Yes but so is every ****ing PG in the league, so there is little consolation in that fact for me.

2.) Omer Asik got the Rockets a 1st round pick from a lottery team. Is this really the best we could do for a recent Defensive Player of the Year that is still better than Asik in most respects of the game? People are doing backflips for Shane Larkin but the dude was the 18th pick in one of the worst drafts in professional sporting history. That means that 17 teams thought that there were 17 flavors of **** that were better than him. And considering the washout rate for 5"11' guards in the league, I find it difficult to take solace in that or some 2nd round picks (albeit in a draft I'm actually excited about).

3.) Why are we assuming long-term money? Wasn't it sacrilege just a week ago to do that? And for what? A 33 year old PG that has been a fringe starter for his career?

Papabear Says

I agree with you. If Omer Asik got a his team a number draft pick and Chandler is better. How come we didn't get a 1 st rounder for Chandler. 33 year old point guard. Hey I thought we were getting younger. What happened?

Can't compare this deal to Asik. We were trying to find a taker for Felton as well. If Felton had any value at all perhaps we could've just traded Tyson for better assets, but in order to get rid of Felton we found a taker cuz they really wanted Tyson. I think it's a pretty good deal considering. Also there aren't that many teams with high picks looking to take on a 30+ year old Center who gets sick all the time.

gunsnewing wrote:Can't wait til Bonn gets a hold of this. He should love Calderon's efficiency stats. He might be overpaid by a mil yearly. Barely if anything

gunsnewing wrote:Phil Jackson is going to bring in guys he thinks will fit in a team concept. Not ways going to be sexy names but you can see with this trade that he wants to change the culture here. IQ just increased drastically while free agency is still in check

BINGO!!!!!!! Last time we had players that fit well together, we blew it up for "sexy names" that don't fit well together. See how well that turned out! PJax is doing something very UnKnick like, and to a lot of Knick fans, it just doesn't compute!

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Can't wait til Bonn gets a hold of this. He should love Calderon's efficiency stats. He might be overpaid by a mil yearly. Barely if anything

I'm still looking through the stats and trying to decide. Calderon's offensive efficiency stats are great and so are his win shares and points per 100 possessions. Surprisingly, his opponent's points per 100 possessions is pretty low actually. However, his net PER is bad (indicating he's giving up more than he scores) and his on/off +/- has been bad for many consecutive years (and so has Dalembert's). I can accept the trade. I don't dislike it but I think we should have gotten more than 2 2nd round picks for the $13 mil in salary we added and players we took back. I think there's a decent chance Tyson would have come out playing well in a contract year too. I haven't looked through the player tracking stats yet. After looking through the player tracking stats and letting it sink in some more, I may end up giving the trade anywhere from a C to a B+. I really haven't decided yet.

You know you are going to miss that capri and tall boot wearing Center. Can Calderon bring the fashion.

The problem is Tyson didn't fit the triangle and unfortunately they wanted Felton gone which reduce the over all assets the knicks could have gotten for Tyson.

gunsnewing wrote:Dalembert is a little more skilled offensively. Dalembert might be bought out though.

I'd like to get our hands on Spencer Hawes. Center who can shoot. Even shoot 3's and rebound. Maybe Cleveland would like to get out of his 6.5m contract

I like varejao too but he is always injured and not on the same level offensively