newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

arkrud wrote:

blkexec wrote:The Negro Basketball Association was founded in New York, United States on June 6, 1946 as the National Basketball of America (NBA). The league adopted the name National Basketball Association in the summer of (love) 1969 after merging with their rival competitor, the National Basketballers of Africa. This was due to the Civil Rights Movement disbanding racial segregation. It wasn't until 1973 when the current and final name was established. Around this time, the Harlem Globetrotters arranged a meeting with the international committee of sports. During the meeting, the Globetrotters were able to get the committee to recognize that the racial majority in the NBA were blacks and that they took up 99.7% of the league.
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Negro_Basketball_Association

So in reality it is all the way around.
The US basketball becoming more diverse by adding more white, Asian, European, Latin American players.
And this is great. More and more black owners, executives, and coaches are pop-in up in NBA also.
So this great thing.
If LG and some other black isolationists want to go back to segregated environment it is up to them.
I do not agree with the notion that abandoning ethical labels in US will prevent disadvantaged people to get help from the society.
Help must be provided by need not by ethnicity otherwise the racism of any kind will only get stronger.
And we are witnessing this very clearly of late.

Dude I think blkexec post is from a satire site...

I give you my history just to paint a picture as to where this country is right now. Every black person has a similar story. Some better, some far worse. There's alot of healing that needs to be done. People are in denial or just ignorant to the fact that this country is still racist and that the monsters that benefited from slavery are still benefiting. There are white people that are just like me 1-2 generations removed from owning slaves. Some people have grandparents that are still alive that were out there burning black communities and lynching black people. Those people are still holding government offices... their children are there now in law enforcement and as government officials. The same way black people need to get their **** together, alot of white people need to shake their demons as well.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

arkrud wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

arkrud wrote:

blkexec wrote:The Negro Basketball Association was founded in New York, United States on June 6, 1946 as the National Basketball of America (NBA). The league adopted the name National Basketball Association in the summer of (love) 1969 after merging with their rival competitor, the National Basketballers of Africa. This was due to the Civil Rights Movement disbanding racial segregation. It wasn't until 1973 when the current and final name was established. Around this time, the Harlem Globetrotters arranged a meeting with the international committee of sports. During the meeting, the Globetrotters were able to get the committee to recognize that the racial majority in the NBA were blacks and that they took up 99.7% of the league.
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Negro_Basketball_Association

So in reality it is all the way around.
The US basketball becoming more diverse by adding more white, Asian, European, Latin American players.
And this is great. More and more black owners, executives, and coaches are pop-in up in NBA also.
So this great thing.
If LG and some other black isolationists want to go back to segregated environment it is up to them.
I do not agree with the notion that abandoning ethical labels in US will prevent disadvantaged people to get help from the society.
Help must be provided by need not by ethnicity otherwise the racism of any kind will only get stronger.
And we are witnessing this very clearly of late.

Dude I think blkexec post is from a satire site...

I know... But my is from live site.
The diversity of sports in undeniable.
So the diversity of life.
Self-segregation is the biggest issue on hand as it is mental and so hard to treat.
This is not the issue of one group but happening all over the place.
I truly believe that the biggest task we have on hand is to root out ethnicity from the law and treat people equally regardless of anything beyond their deeds.

Interesting proposal. France officially categorizes its people only by whether they are citizens or not. I like the idea theoretically. Yet in the US we worship the wisdom of our Founding Fathers and the documents they wrote which enshrined race theory in this country. So I am sympathetic to your philosophically, in actuality it seems a bit naive for our situation. But what do I know.

Everyone country involved with slavery or had horrific genocidal events happen on their watch have gone out of their way to remove themselves from those atrocities.... Germany being number one. America still has deep racist roots that refuse to be uprooted. This country is only about 240 years old... it's going to take the generation that's being born now and have yet to be born to get the unity we need... meaning all the racist and ignorant people need to pass away and we need to teach our kids right and wrong.... this is America. It's poisonous cycle that needs to dissipate.

This is a funny post,
Really
Really ? Larry

Larry is a bro.. I like him
Don't know why Larry feels so he seems intelligent
And well off.

I am nobody
But Mr Larry's view isn't representative of
Afro-American of not only usa but also the
Whole countries around the world.

This is a public announcement from the
DJ anonymous incorporated services of America

Grins..
Lol

nixluva wrote:I'm assuming no one saw or read this when I posted it. There was a time when Blacks had their own everything out of necessity.

nixluva wrote:

Exhibit Uncovers the 'Negro Leagues' of Basketball
'The Black Fives' Opening at the New-York Historical Society

By SOPHIA HOLLANDER
March 13, 2014 9:33 p.m. ET

Claude Johnson never intended to dedicate his life to the history of basketball's early segregated leagues.

At first, he says, his interest in the African-American teams of the early 1900s focused simply on selling their retro jerseys. But over the last decade, his vision broadened as he began amassing artifacts from dozens of all-black teams—known as "Black Fives"—that competed before the National Basketball Association integrated in 1950. His quest to chronicle their all-but-hidden history will reach a milestone on Friday when "The Black Fives," the first major exhibition on the topic, opens at the New-York Historical Society.

"It's been such a struggle," said Mr. Johnson, who guest-curated the exhibit and is founder and executive director of the Black Fives Foundation.

The exhibition features some 150 artifacts from Mr. Johnson's collection, including vintage equipment, an original jersey and contract, ticket stubs, letters and newspaper clippings. Through it, one can trace the evolution of African-American history over that time, museum officials said.

From business to civil rights, "all these historical lineages get involved in this one specific story," said Stephen Edidin, chief curator at the historical society.

The first organized black basketball team was formed in Brooklyn in 1906 by the Smart Set Athletic Club. A network of amateur teams sponsored by community groups, churches, social groups and local athletic associations quickly sprung up.

The Smart Set team, called the "Grave Diggers" because the players said they buried their opponents, were amateur efforts "like summer camp," recalled the great-granddaughter of the club's founders, author Gail Lumet Buckley. "It was very important, though, in the black middle-class world of New York and Harlem."

Basketball was a way to protect against bad influences and promote the "uplift of the race," Mr. Johnson writes.

The number of high-profile amateur teams peaked around 1910, when dozens of squads competed across the country. Businesses, newspapers, clothing stores, factories and theaters all created teams. Barred from all-white gymnasiums, players found spaces in the church basements, casinos and dance halls. Promoters frequently invited bands to perform and advertised postgame dances to attract more fans, Mr. Johnson said.

Teams cautiously began to professionalize, he said, adopting names that advertised their race—like the Harlem Globetrotters (founded in Chicago) or the Colored Giants. Harlem was a brand, but it was also protection. "You don't want a black team to show up when nobody was expecting a black team," Mr. Johnson said. "That was a risky undertaking."

He bought most of his collection's items on eBay. There was rarely a bidding war. Unlike the history of baseball's Negro Leagues, "no one's interested," he said.

That might be traced to essential differences between the sports, said Matt Zeysing, curator and historian at the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Baseball always pitched itself as a timeless "national pastime"—its open-air stadiums and greenery evoking a rural past. By contrast, basketball evolved as an indoor, urban sport. Cities are fundamentally forward-looking, he said, and the sport reflects that character.

Although teams were largely segregated, games sometimes pitted white and black teams against each other. Winning wasn't without its consequences, said Karen Isaacs, the daughter of John Isaacs, who starred for one of the most famous teams, the New York Renaissance, or the Rens. "They would have to rush them out of the gym before things started to flare up," she said.

The Rens and Globetrotters were the only two African- American squads—out of 12 total teams—invited to participate in the first professional basketball championship in 1939. The Rens won the title.

"That ... caused the public to realize that black basketball talent was here to stay and it was first rate," Mr. Johnson said.

Still, life wasn't easy. Mr. Isaacs worked for an insurance company in the Bronx for decades, earning enough money to continue playing basketball. Although he played for the country's top professional teams, he earned about $100 a month, his daughter said.

Near the end of his life, Mr. Isaacs made a push to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, but failed before he died in 2009 at 93 years old. His name is still on the ballot, Mr. Zeysing said. The number of African-American players from that era is capped at one inductee a year.

Mr. Johnson initially licensed the jerseys and began selling them. But in 2003, a security guard in Philadelphia was moved to tears as Mr. Johnson described the merchandise's back story. He realized "there's something else here," he said.

Last year, he dissolved his company and created the Black Fives Foundation, a nonprofit dedicated to spreading the story.

"There's a better karma" now, he said. He dreams the NBA "will really embrace this" and players and college teams will pause to take in the exhibit: "We're all part of this bigger picture."

Indeed, the early black Brooklyn teams were honored last year at the Barclays Center, home of the Nets. Mr. Johnson worked with arena officials to select six team photographs that were installed in the main concourse.

They were astonished to learn the history, said David Berliner, chief operating officer of Forest City Ratner Cos., which developed the arena. "Exceptional athletes who helped shape this modern game need to be rediscovered," he said.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579437600097903692

I saw it, thanks nixluva. Thanks to EnySpree too for his family story. We definitely have to ground our idealism and values with a clear-eyed vision of the present and the past to get to where we need to be in the future, IMHO.

EnySpree wrote:The Internet age had brought race back to the forefront. People have been in denial and asleep the last 30 years. I Have relatives alive today that are only 1 and 2 generations away from slavery. I am only 3-4 generations removed from slavery myself. My grandmother still owns the land that my family settled on after slavery. They just tore down the family house that was up since before slavery was abolished 2 years ago.... if you go out into the woods around and in the property you can see the remains and footprints of churches, homes that were burned down along with other atrocities that I care not to mention. You can trace my family back to a rape that occurred that resulted in one of my great great grandparents being born. The white family is still wealthy off of slavery. My cousins are the only ones that managed to start actually graduating college. So far we have 3 bachelor degrees since 2003. Only one managed to get a bachelor's degree in the 80s.

I give you my history just to paint a picture as to where this country is right now. Every black person has a similar story. Some better, some far worse. There's alot of healing that needs to be done. People are in denial or just ignorant to the fact that this country is still racist and that the monsters that benefited from slavery are still benefiting. There are white people that are just like me 1-2 generations removed from owning slaves. Some people have grandparents that are still alive that were out there burning black communities and lynching black people. Those people are still holding government offices... their children are there now in law enforcement and as government officials. The same way black people need to get their **** together, alot of white people need to shake their demons as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/04/living/integrated-prom-wilcox-county-georgia/

The Civil War never ended for the South and that's where the majority of the Black people in this country still live after slavery. This country had one brief moment to have truly overcome it's issues during Reconstruction. From 1867-1877 there was very good progress but it came to an end as the North basically turned it's back on Black people and let the South do what they wanted to oppress Black People again.

One of the most important aspects of Reconstruction was the active participation of African Americans (including thousands of former slaves) in the political, economic and social life of the South. The era was to a great extent defined by their quest for autonomy and equal rights under the law, both as individuals and for the black community as a whole. During Reconstruction, some 2,000 African Americans held public office, from the local level all the way up to the U.S. Senate, though they never achieved representation in government proportionate to their numbers.

RISE OF BLACK ACTIVISM

Before the Civil War began, African Americans had only been able to vote in a few northern states, and there were virtually no black officeholders. The months after the Union victory in April 1865 saw extensive mobilization within the black community, with meetings, parades and petitions calling for legal and political rights, including the all-important right to vote. During the first two years of Reconstruction, blacks organized Equal Rights Leagues throughout the South and held state and local conventions to protest discriminatory treatment and demand suffrage, as well as equality before the law.

These African American activists bitterly opposed the Reconstruction policies of President Andrew Johnson, which excluded blacks from southern politics and allowed state legislatures to pass restrictive “black codes” regulating the lives of the freed men and women. Fierce resistance to these discriminatory laws, as well as growing opposition to Johnson’s policies in the North, led to a Republican victory in the U.S. congressional elections of 1866 and to a new phase of Reconstruction that would give African Americans a more active role in the political, economic and social life of the South.

A RADICAL CHANGE

During the decade known as Radical Reconstruction (1867-77), Congress granted African American men the status and rights of citizenship, including the right to vote, as guaranteed by the 14th and 15th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Beginning in 1867, branches of the Union League, which encouraged the political activism of African Americans, spread throughout the South. During the state constitutional conventions held in 1867-69, blacks and white Americans stood side by side for the first time in political life.

Blacks made up the overwhelming majority of southern Republican voters, forming a coalition with “carpetbaggers” and “scalawags” (derogatory terms referring to recent arrivals from the North and southern white Republicans, respectively). A total of 265 African-American delegates were elected, more than 100 of whom had been born into slavery. Almost half of the elected black delegates served in South Carolina and Louisiana, where blacks had the longest history of political organization; in most other states, African Americans were underrepresented compared to their population. In all, 16 African Americans served in the U.S. Congress during Reconstruction; more than 600 more were elected to the state legislatures, and hundreds more held local offices across the South.

BACKGROUND & RISK OF LEADERSHIP

Many black leaders during Reconstruction had gained their freedom before the Civil War (by self-purchase or through the will of a deceased owner), had worked as skilled slave artisans or had served in the Union Army. A large number of black political leaders came from the church, having worked as ministers during slavery or in the early years of Reconstruction, when the church served as the center of the black community. Hiram Revels, the first African American elected to the U.S. Senate (he took the Senate seat from Mississippi that had been vacated by Jefferson Davis in 1861) was born free in North Carolina and attended college in Illinois. He worked as a preacher in the Midwest in the 1850s and as a chaplain to a black regiment in the Union Army before going to Mississippi in 1865 to work for the Freedmen’s Bureau. Blanche K. Bruce, elected to the Senate in 1875 from Mississippi, had lived a privileged life as a slave and also received some education. The background of these men was typical of the leaders that emerged during Reconstruction, but differed greatly from that of the majority of the African American population.

As the most radical aspect of the so-called Radical Reconstruction period, the political activism of the African American community also inspired the most hostility from Reconstruction’s opponents. Southern whites frustrated with policies giving former slaves the right to vote and hold office increasingly turned to intimidation and violence as a means of reaffirming white supremacy. The Ku Klux Klan targeted local Republican leaders and blacks who challenged their white employers, and at least 35 black officials were murdered by the Klan and other white supremacist organizations during the Reconstruction era.

arkrud wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

arkrud wrote:I know... But my is from live site.
The diversity of sports in undeniable.
So the diversity of life.
Self-segregation is the biggest issue on hand as it is mental and so hard to treat.
This is not the issue of one group but happening all over the place.
I truly believe that the biggest task we have on hand is to root out ethnicity from the law and treat people equally regardless of anything beyond their deeds.

Interesting proposal. France officially categorizes its people only by whether they are citizens or not. I like the idea theoretically. Yet in the US we worship the wisdom of our Founding Fathers and the documents they wrote which enshrined race theory in this country. So I am sympathetic to your philosophically, in actuality it seems a bit naive for our situation. But what do I know.

This exactly.

Naive... probably.
So I will continue to live in the world where many millions naive people are leaving...
Why you don't want to join us?

because adults live in reality.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

arkrud wrote:I know... But my is from live site.
The diversity of sports in undeniable.
So the diversity of life.
Self-segregation is the biggest issue on hand as it is mental and so hard to treat.
This is not the issue of one group but happening all over the place.
I truly believe that the biggest task we have on hand is to root out ethnicity from the law and treat people equally regardless of anything beyond their deeds.

Interesting proposal. France officially categorizes its people only by whether they are citizens or not. I like the idea theoretically. Yet in the US we worship the wisdom of our Founding Fathers and the documents they wrote which enshrined race theory in this country. So I am sympathetic to your philosophically, in actuality it seems a bit naive for our situation. But what do I know.

This exactly.

Naive... probably.
So I will continue to live in the world where many millions naive people are leaving...
Why you don't want to join us?

It's funny, as we are talking about race in America, you sound like a hippie who is reaching out for the best in human nature.

But when we talk about economics in America, you sound like a pragmatist, preferring capitalism because of the selfish nature of man, going so far as calling the profit motive a virtue.

Not saying that they are mutually-exclusive positions to take of course. I wouldn't lecture you about life in a socialist state, I don't have experience there.

Just seems like you are more comfortable playing with thought experiments about race in the US, even when your experience and knowledge about it is lacking. And of course, these aren't just thought experiments. It's the bedrock of history and policy that affects people's rights and lives.

But I can totally dig it man... save me a seat on the Love Train.

Love conquers all.
I can understand anger and frustration as I had similar experience on my own.
False promises of human and social equality which turn to be an opposite in real live in USSR.
My experience tells me that anger and frustration not helping but making things worth and only help one can get is help from within.
If you hate somebody you will became like one you hate and if you love somebody you will became like one you love.
Why one will make so much harm to himself?

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:My personal opinion is sure go for it. If African Americans would like to have their own pro league just do it. And that goes for everything - if you want to be like Jews just do your thing and stop worrying about what others think unless they are actively opposing your plans - then deal with it through internal unity.

Wow. First off this post should not have been bumped--it was what it was at the time-- a really poor statement by LJ When I see posts that validate what LJ said I have to shake my head. What he said was wrong--its completely divisive and highly obtuse.

How about focus on the National debt better and more affordable education health care fixing the US infrastructure and make the 15mm illegal immigrants and their employers pay some pretty big fines and their fair share in taxes. Worry about white collar crime and drugs. But the divisive sht is boring and has to end.

Not that its realistic. But don't see the big deal if hypothetically African Americans did start there own league. Unless they refused to allow any other races from playing or watching. The only real difference would be the owners and possibly the networks that distributed the program.

I dont get this--this is a contradiction at best?

I'm saying the only difference in a black owned league would be the black owners and probably the networks. Wouldn't be legal to exclude other races from participating.

And the only way it would be possible is if black million-billionaires pooled money together started building arenas and formed there own league. Then star NBA players decide to leave the NBA to join the new league that has majority black owners.

newyork--I dont have much of a clue at what you are getting at but the premise is completely divisive and racist. You cant see that? In the NBA anyone can buy a team--any race any creed anyone if you have the bucks the team is available and thats what you want. Whats wrong with that?

The premise was a emotional tweet reaction to Donald Sterling's comments about blacks. Seemed more about blacks needing to stop being the victim and start focusing on being in Donald Sterling's position(wealth and power). Don't know if his tweet about own team own league was meant to be literal or not.

But of course anything pro black is considered divisive and racist. Meanwhile there are almost triple the amount of white billionaires who own NBA franchises then there are black billionaires in the world.

Newyork there are almost 7 white people for every black person in the US. At the end of the day you can just look at simple math to determine why there are more white owners.