Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:The original point ("how do you know this? Did you examine him?") seems to be that we don't know. You can't say he's not that hurt because we're not anywhere near close enough to the situation to come to that conclusion. Therefore, you can't really answer whether he is "that hurt or just that bad" since we don't know exactly what's going on with his shoulder. Really only Melo knows how he feels.

bottom line carmelo anthony's injuries to both shoulders looks to be the beginning of a trend. obviously the way he plays the game is taking its toll. this bully ball stuff is really not very effective.

seems to me he isn't going to be as valuable to the knicks unless he gets the shoulders attended to surgically, does some sort of regimen that allows him to strengthen them, and is willing to take less money to learn how to play in a system that requires him to be in supreme shape and work on his legs and conditioning. is he coachable?

is that what's happening with lebron?

please look at lebron's shoulder girdles. he has really bulked them up over time. doesn't mean he won't get hurt too but as naturally strong carmelo is he is doing himself no favors by not trying to build up the tissue in both shoulders.

so you are going by appearance versus someone who can quote carmelo's workout habits?

are you trying to start a frivolous argument here? lebron has never had shoulder issues so far as i know and carmelo has had shoulder injuries the last two seasons, each around the same time of year.

if melo plays in a system like jackson's he will be doing a lot more running and moving off the ball, requiring better wind, not better strength.

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:The original point ("how do you know this? Did you examine him?") seems to be that we don't know. You can't say he's not that hurt because we're not anywhere near close enough to the situation to come to that conclusion. Therefore, you can't really answer whether he is "that hurt or just that bad" since we don't know exactly what's going on with his shoulder. Really only Melo knows how he feels.

bottom line carmelo anthony's injuries to both shoulders looks to be the beginning of a trend. obviously the way he plays the game is taking its toll. this bully ball stuff is really not very effective.

seems to me he isn't going to be as valuable to the knicks unless he gets the shoulders attended to surgically, does some sort of regimen that allows him to strengthen them, and is willing to take less money to learn how to play in a system that requires him to be in supreme shape and work on his legs and conditioning. is he coachable?

is that what's happening with lebron?

please look at lebron's shoulder girdles. he has really bulked them up over time. doesn't mean he won't get hurt too but as naturally strong carmelo is he is doing himself no favors by not trying to build up the tissue in both shoulders.

so you are going by appearance versus someone who can quote carmelo's workout habits?

are you trying to start a frivolous argument here? lebron has never had shoulder issues so far as i know and carmelo has had shoulder injuries the last two seasons, each around the same time of year.

if melo plays in a system like jackson's he will be doing a lot more running and moving off the ball, requiring better wind, not better strength.

i'm just saying you and your alter ego tkf are the ones starting frivolous arguments, claim to be sick when carmelo plays well and are in full force on the board when knicks lose. many (including me) have asked you direct questions in other game threads which didn't get answered. i am also saying you are talking out your ass when you talk about carmelo's work ethic and workout regimen, because you probably don't know anyone on the knicks staff personally.

you can't even tell anyone with a straight face that however carmelo plays in a game, that you have ever supported him as a knick. i mean thats just pathetic that you see things black n white like that. most of the truth is in between somewhere.

TeamBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I always get the impression Amar'e hates JR- his latest comments just confirm that. He's been calling him out all season.

Oh look at that...Amare not so discreetly asking for more touches

Can't blame Amare for hating JR or even Melo. When you want touches and you are not getting (though you probably deserve them), you should be pissed.

mreinman wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I always get the impression Amar'e hates JR- his latest comments just confirm that. He's been calling him out all season.

Oh look at that...Amare not so discreetly asking for more touches

Can't blame Amare for hating JR or even Melo. When you want touches and you are not getting (though you probably deserve them), you should be pissed.

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:The original point ("how do you know this? Did you examine him?") seems to be that we don't know. You can't say he's not that hurt because we're not anywhere near close enough to the situation to come to that conclusion. Therefore, you can't really answer whether he is "that hurt or just that bad" since we don't know exactly what's going on with his shoulder. Really only Melo knows how he feels.

bottom line carmelo anthony's injuries to both shoulders looks to be the beginning of a trend. obviously the way he plays the game is taking its toll. this bully ball stuff is really not very effective.

seems to me he isn't going to be as valuable to the knicks unless he gets the shoulders attended to surgically, does some sort of regimen that allows him to strengthen them, and is willing to take less money to learn how to play in a system that requires him to be in supreme shape and work on his legs and conditioning. is he coachable?

is that what's happening with lebron?

please look at lebron's shoulder girdles. he has really bulked them up over time. doesn't mean he won't get hurt too but as naturally strong carmelo is he is doing himself no favors by not trying to build up the tissue in both shoulders.

so you are going by appearance versus someone who can quote carmelo's workout habits?

are you trying to start a frivolous argument here? lebron has never had shoulder issues so far as i know and carmelo has had shoulder injuries the last two seasons, each around the same time of year.

if melo plays in a system like jackson's he will be doing a lot more running and moving off the ball, requiring better wind, not better strength.

i'm just saying you and your alter ego tkf are the ones starting frivolous arguments, claim to be sick when carmelo plays well and are in full force on the board when knicks lose. many (including me) have asked you direct questions in other game threads which didn't get answered. i am also saying you are talking out your ass when you talk about carmelo's work ethic and workout regimen, because you probably don't know anyone on the knicks staff personally.

you can't even tell anyone with a straight face that however carmelo plays in a game, that you have ever supported him as a knick. i mean thats just pathetic that you see things black n white like that. most of the truth is in between somewhere.

when he plays well i acknowledge that-- have you not seen that? when he doesn't play well i acknowledge that too.

that is a different question from whether i "support" him as a knick. i think he ripped the knicks off in the manner in which he arrived in 2011, and he is likely to do so again if jackson doesn't play hardball with him. in my opinion he has neither lived up to the price of his contract nor the assets we ended up giving up for him.

for the record i do not "support" jr smith or felton or bargnani either.

players i do "support" are chandler, stoudemire, hardaway, aldrich, prigioni, and martin.

He has played very well pretty much all season and for his overall knicks stint. The question is expectation and that's the issue/argument is. Your main arg is faulting him for the trade since if he played like this and came here as a free agent you would not have had a problem with his play here, right?

Also, are you not the one who called Martin a fake thug? I thought you did but I am not sure, just asking.

no i did not call martin that.

if he had come here as a free agent then i would feel quite differently-- and the knicks would have fared much better as a result. of that i am certain.

mreinman wrote:So your only/main blame is that he "forced" the trade to NY and he should have come as a free agent instead? Even at the max?

I don't know if I agree with that but it certainly is an opinion that people have and have a right to have.

I have a problem with his shot selection and how much better he can be (top 5) if he was willing to learn and listen. That bothers me a lot and if Phil thinks that he is not changeable then I don't want him here (unless at a low ball price).

I don't blame him (personally) for the trade, I don't know how/if many/any players would have done differently especially with many of their backgrounds and agency controls. That does not mean that I don't think that Knick mgmt and ownership gave up too much.

make no mistake about it, he not only forced his way here, but he also played the knicks vs the nets and denver, costing the knicks more in terms of assets given up....

I don't know how/if many/any players would have done differently especially with many of their backgrounds and agency controls.

I have a problem with his shot selection and how much better he can be (top 5) if he was willing to learn and listen.

his problem just isn't learning and listening... The dude doesn't have the all around skills to be a top 5 player... in this league... now would those two things make him a better player.. well sure, it would for any player... but after 13 seasons in the league, why should I or reasonable basketball fan believe he will change?

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

mreinman wrote:So your only/main blame is that he "forced" the trade to NY and he should have come as a free agent instead? Even at the max?

I don't know if I agree with that but it certainly is an opinion that people have and have a right to have.

I have a problem with his shot selection and how much better he can be (top 5) if he was willing to learn and listen. That bothers me a lot and if Phil thinks that he is not changeable then I don't want him here (unless at a low ball price).

I don't blame him (personally) for the trade, I don't know how/if many/any players would have done differently especially with many of their backgrounds and agency controls. That does not mean that I don't think that Knick mgmt and ownership gave up too much.

make no mistake about it, he not only forced his way here, but he also played the knicks vs the nets and denver, costing the knicks more in terms of assets given up....

I don't know how/if many/any players would have done differently especially with many of their backgrounds and agency controls.

I don't know many situations in which a player forced his way to a team, in such a blockbuster move and it basically fail.. and on top of it hold the team hostage before the season with his" I am going to opt out " comments...

I have a problem with his shot selection and how much better he can be (top 5) if he was willing to learn and listen.

his problem just isn't learning and listening... The dude doesn't have the all around skills to be a top 5 player... in this league... now would those two things make him a better player.. well sure, it would for any player... but after 13 seasons in the league, why should I or reasonable basketball fan believe he will change?

This is his 11th season, don't know where you keep getting 13 from.

Don't bother tkd with facts. He's on a roll.

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:The original point ("how do you know this? Did you examine him?") seems to be that we don't know. You can't say he's not that hurt because we're not anywhere near close enough to the situation to come to that conclusion. Therefore, you can't really answer whether he is "that hurt or just that bad" since we don't know exactly what's going on with his shoulder. Really only Melo knows how he feels.

bottom line carmelo anthony's injuries to both shoulders looks to be the beginning of a trend. obviously the way he plays the game is taking its toll. this bully ball stuff is really not very effective.

seems to me he isn't going to be as valuable to the knicks unless he gets the shoulders attended to surgically, does some sort of regimen that allows him to strengthen them, and is willing to take less money to learn how to play in a system that requires him to be in supreme shape and work on his legs and conditioning. is he coachable?

is that what's happening with lebron?

please look at lebron's shoulder girdles. he has really bulked them up over time. doesn't mean he won't get hurt too but as naturally strong carmelo is he is doing himself no favors by not trying to build up the tissue in both shoulders.

so you are going by appearance versus someone who can quote carmelo's workout habits?

are you trying to start a frivolous argument here? lebron has never had shoulder issues so far as i know and carmelo has had shoulder injuries the last two seasons, each around the same time of year.

if melo plays in a system like jackson's he will be doing a lot more running and moving off the ball, requiring better wind, not better strength.

i'm just saying you and your alter ego tkf are the ones starting frivolous arguments, claim to be sick when carmelo plays well and are in full force on the board when knicks lose. many (including me) have asked you direct questions in other game threads which didn't get answered. i am also saying you are talking out your ass when you talk about carmelo's work ethic and workout regimen, because you probably don't know anyone on the knicks staff personally.

you can't even tell anyone with a straight face that however carmelo plays in a game, that you have ever supported him as a knick. i mean thats just pathetic that you see things black n white like that. most of the truth is in between somewhere.

when he plays well i acknowledge that-- have you not seen that? when he doesn't play well i acknowledge that too.

that is a different question from whether i "support" him as a knick. i think he ripped the knicks off in the manner in which he arrived in 2011, and he is likely to do so again if jackson doesn't play hardball with him. in my opinion he has neither lived up to the price of his contract nor the assets we ended up giving up for him.

for the record i do not "support" jr smith or felton or bargnani either.

players i do "support" are chandler, stoudemire, hardaway, aldrich, prigioni, and martin.

no. never.

He does. He'll post "Nice block Melo" Followed immediately by something to the effect of "melo sux"
And he did post the "Carmelo Anthony Stat line against Indy" thread. Which seems to have only increased his Melohate of late.

It's a tough love kind of acknowledgement. Or maybe he's just mildly schitzo.