RonRon wrote:

Marcala12 wrote:

NYY1NYK2 wrote:Deron williams was available, He now has a lingering ankle injury and will never be the same.
We gave up alot for melo, too much. but he was the best player available.

we gave up too much for Melo??? someone says this every day on this board, but I'm wondering if people actually remember how that trade went.

Billups and Melo for: Felton (got him back), Mozgov (please), Wilson Chandler (meh), Gallo (not even close to a big time player), and the pick next year.

Now the pick next year hurts, especially if we'll be a lotto team, which is a possibility. But nobody thought we were going to be a lotto team, and we may very well end up not being one, even though everything has gone wrong.

What's funny to me is when people say "well maybe if we had all those pieces we traded away for Melo......" The biggest piece we gave away in that trade is currently playing in college somewhere, so I don't understand how our next draft pick could have been helping us at this stage. And outside of the pick, we traded a bag of BS for Melo.

Being that Denver had been a much better team than the knicks in the years heading into the trade, you'd figure they'd be in the finals every year with the way people say they ripped us off for Melo. But yea, they can't get out of the first round and this year they're further back from the 8 seed than we are. For a team that ripped us off so badly, and for a team with all that talent, they're absolutely stuck in mud.

Melo isn't as good as LEbron or Durant or prime Kobke or Duncan...we all know that. And it's kind of tough to win a ring unless you have a guy like that. So let's not be unreasonable here- A team with: Gallo, Amare, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov and next years' pick wasn't going to be some kind of contender this year.

In other words, the trade was fine.

I don't want to go back and forth but if you do think we can build around Melo, if you do believe we can pay him a mex deal, please post how

there were also 2 GS 2nd round picks (which were predicted to be high, only one of which became high)

Swap of 1st round pick (which is possible now)

Eddy Curry's expiring (actually has value) /AR (which had value had the time, about a 2nd rounder for his potential), WE SAVED DENVER 50M, in taxes and salary, but did not get compensated for it, look at the teams right now looking to save 3-5m and giving up 1st round picks and more, well put a value on 30m+ in salary and over 50m in taxes and salary

DENVER has a better record than us EVERY YEAR since the trade
WE both had had no success in the play offs but we were BUILD TO COMPETE/CONTEND NOW while Denver was built for the future

I think that is the point most people miss, and when you look at the picks denver has going forward including ours.. they are in great shape..

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

gunsnewing wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Lakers won with Kobe but he had Phil, gasol and Bynum

Explain to me how we build a team like that around Melo at $30m

they also had guys like artest at one point, odom, ariza.. you won't be able to build that type of team paying him 23 mil either guns...

True and it's harder with the current cba and cap at $58mil

yep..

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

anyone who has been around here for a long time knows I hated the Melo trade, but I was wrong, not just about Melo but also about how to build a team and a franchise.

You need to stars to win a title. Just look at ALL the NBA titles won since the 80s. Every team except 3 that I can think of clearly had TWO superstar players. Those team's being Larry Brown's Pistons, Hakeem's Rockets (the first year w/o Drexler) and the Mavs team that beat the Heat. Those are three years out of like 30 and you could even make the star arguement for some of the guys on those teams.

Anyway on the Knicks and Melo.

I dont know if the Knicks can ever add another star that will elevate the team to elite after resigning Melo. After next year when Amare/Tyson/Bargs expire if they manage the roster well they would have the cap space to do so. Do they have the saavy to build up the rest of the roster if they are lucky enough to grab a top flight FA to put next to Melo? I highly doubt it based simply on the history of ineptitude this organization has displayed.

But I do know NOT signing Melo brings us further away from not only a title but winning period. This notion that because we probably dont win a title resigning Melo means we are better off just trading him for picks or youngs is stupid and not reality based. I mean in the last 5 years how many players drafted are clearly better then Melo? 5?

You really have to wonder what the Knicks plan, and hope like hell its a bit deeper than: 1) max out Melo, 2) throw poop at a wall to build a supporting cast 3) have a winning record and make the playoffs every year

Regardless of what it is we are NOT better off dumping a player thats as good as MElo because he's got holes in his game. A good org builds around talent. Knicks seem to squander it

ok fish, if you believe that then you should have no problem letting carmelo go and trying to draft one.... stars don't grow on trees, there are just a few in the league... How did the pacers get theirs? if you can't get a lebron, or durant, or a paul, then you better build a team, full of good players, as many as you can get, hire a good coach with a system, and out of that a star can possibly emerge, at the very least you have a foundation built in which you can add a star to, if you are fortunate enough to get one...

I mean in the last 5 years how many players drafted are clearly better then Melo? 5?

better at what fish? a game of 21? iso ball? This is a team game, and over the last 5 years I can name several guys who have a better all around team game...

from last draft, oladipo and Michael carter williams are two guys who I think have the potential to be better players, all around as well as team players.. but it is still early.. but so far, I see that potential.. How muich better would this team be down the road with Michael carter williams instead of carmelo... I could only imagine..

2012 draft:

Lillard, Beal, Anthony davis, and there are a host of other guys with very high potential like Drummond , gilchrest, Barnes.... again,are they clearly better now? no, but we are looking down the road right.. now the goal post is moved again.. we are buidling for 2015.. I would rather have any of these guys going forward, especially anthony davis... come on now..

2011: Kyrie irving? klay Thompson?

2010: Paul George? clearly!! John wall, evan turner, cousins...

2009: Blake, Harden, Curry.. all are better than carmelo..

again, looking at these guys, you have a bunch of guys you can build with going forward.. we got carmelo to be a win now team.. that failed. now we are talking about 2015? LOL.. come on.... he will be on the other side of 30 with a 30 mil tab!! How is that smart?

the idea that it is carmelo or nothing is just mind boggling...

We have our 2015 lottery pick. It's better than just having the pick and no Melo

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

last laugh, last word, current season.. 17-27 constantly 10+ games under .500, carmelo is on this team. therefore he is contributing to losing...

first season he came we were .5000

second season we were under .500 and had to have jeremy lin save the season..

last year, good year..we brought in some vet leaders

This year we are 10 games under .500 see the trend? with carmelo here, we are around the .500 area... the trend shows with him here we are closer to mediocre than great.. The data is there.. we are not that good with him here, including this current season!

fishmike wrote:Whats Blake Griffin won? LAC cant beat elite teams because hes so easy to defend in the playoffs. Push him out of the paint and he's useless... someone who watched NBA games would see this. Dude's got one of the premier defensive centers and the best PG in the NBA, has he been to the finals?

Kyrie Irving? Whats Cle's record? John Wall? Has Wash won much since drafting him? Harden? HARDEN????

LMAO

TFK: "I hate chuckers" (but if you shoot 43% and your NOT Melo its OK)

Nope... sorry, your wrong again. But its nice to see TFK continually bash Melo but overlook the same holes in other's games. Nothing here but the usual to see...

The book is still open on these young players, but fish since you quoted ESPN yesterday, they have blake ahead of carmelo... so what gives?

and stop crying wolf.. you keep crying bashing but where have i bashed him.. by saying blake griffin is better?

your argument fish is and has always been weak... you are more worried about me liking him or not....

I have pointed out fish, why I don't want him here, and it has nothing to do with my personal feelings..

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

TFK would built around Gallo and Landry (Melo ruined me) Fields. That would have been awesome

Hey the book is still out on the rest of the league.
Melo, however, when not setting franchise records, is a cancerous loser.

Evan Turner. tkf is actually offering up evan turner in a better-than-Melo post.

Oh well, at least the man obviously loves all this attention.

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

last laugh, last word, current season.. 17-27 constantly 10+ games under .500, carmelo is on this team. therefore he is contributing to losing...

first season he came we were .5000

second season we were under .500 and had to have jeremy lin save the season..

last year, good year..we brought in some vet leaders

This year we are 10 games under .500 see the trend? with carmelo here, we are around the .500 area... the trend shows with him here we are closer to mediocre than great.. The data is there.. we are not that good with him here, including this current season!

armelo Anthony Having Legendary Month for Knicks
Posted by NBA on April 23, 2012 at 3:00pm
View Blog
.

The NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Month will soon be announced. I think it's safe to say that Carmelo Anthony of the New York Knicks will soon be named NBA Player of the Month for April 2012.

Last night, Carmelo Anthony scored an amazing 39 points against the NBA Playoff bound Atlanta Hawks.

Melo has led the New York Knicks to a 7-4 record thus far in April 2012 despite Amar'e Stoudemire and Jeremy Lin not playing along side him.

Here are the NBA stats for the New York Knicks Small Forward Carmelo Anthony for the month of April 2012 broken down by game and NBA opponent.

Carmelo Anthony NBA 2012 New York Knicks Stats
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 39 points at the Indiana Pacers on April 3, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 19 points at the Orlando Magic and the Knicks won on April 5, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony dropped 43 points against the Chicago Bulls in Madison Square Garden on April 8, 2012
◾On April 10, 2012 Carmelo Anthony scored 29 points for the New York Knicks at the Chicago Bulls
◾Melo scored 32 points for the Knicks against the Milwaukee Bucks on April 11, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 18 points on April 13, 2012 for the Knicks in the win against the Washington Wizards
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 42 points on the Miami Heat on April 15, 2012 for the New York Knicks
◾On April 17, 2012, Carmelo Anthony scored 35 points in the Knicks victory over the Boston Celtics
◾Carmelo Anthony on April 18, 2012 scored 33 points in the New York Knicks win at the New Jersey Nets
◾Carmelo Anthony scored only 12 points in the Knicks loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers on April 20, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony for the New York Knicks scored 39 points in Atlanta against the Hawks on April 22, 2012 in the Knicks victory

Carmelo Anthony has scored a total of 341 points for the New York Knicks as of April 22, 2012.

In the eleven New York Knicks games in April 2012, Carmelo Anthony is averaging 31 points per game and the Knicks are 7-4 with key wins over a few 2012 NBA Eastern Conference Playoff teams.

One thing is for sure, NO NBA Eastern Conference team wants to play the New York Knicks and Carmelo Anthony in the first round of the 2012 NBA Playoffs.

Can Carmelo Anthony lead the Knicks to a first round upset of the Chicago Bulls or Miami Heat in the 2012 NBA Playoffs? I think so.

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

TFK would built around Gallo and Landry (Melo ruined me) Fields. That would have been awesome

Hey the book is still out on the rest of the league.
Melo, however, when not setting franchise records, is a cancerous loser.

Evan Turner. tkf is actually offering up evan turner in a better-than-Melo post.

Oh well, at least the man obviously loves all this attention.

who cares about individual franchise records.. again, are you a knick fan or a meloser fan? which
one?

go to nba.com look at the standings.

we are not good bro...

Who cares about franchise records? Knicks fans, that's who. Did you even bring yourself to watch that game?

Third in the suckyist division in the weaker conference. Try to define good with Melo actually being on the team, Mr. Knick fan. Since 54 wins meant nothing, 2nd round meant nothing.

You don't change your point of view, tkf. You keep your hate no matter what happens. Enjoy the record while it lasts.

If this does turn around, and something really good happens, what will you do then? Start cheering Melo?

Or start writing a billion posts about how Ray Felton is the MVP of the team?

What will happen is Melo will have a couple months of 30/10 basketball, get NBA player of the month a couple times, finish top in MVP voting and it will he Melo's fault when Lowry or Deron Williams or whoever Felton guards goes off for 40 a night and we lose in the playoffs. Thats usually how it goes. Along with 40x of "Melo is a loser" posts followed by another 40x "I only talk basketball" posts.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

no it's not simple, because I said take away any of the players i listed and we would win less.. so no it not simple..

what I do know is that kidd isn't here, as is novak and carmelo is here and we are 17-27.. focus on this year!!!

so now answer my question..

would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

it is that simple and you have answered whether you like your answer or not. you did say that all of those players had contributed to more wins, in other words carmelo contributed to winning, and since you care about winning, you care about carmelo... which is very touching to see :)

and stop asking hypothetical questions... if you are going to play GM, better come with a REAL example with a NAME that was AVAILABLE.

last laugh, last word, current season.. 17-27 constantly 10+ games under .500, carmelo is on this team. therefore he is contributing to losing...

first season he came we were .5000

second season we were under .500 and had to have jeremy lin save the season..

last year, good year..we brought in some vet leaders

This year we are 10 games under .500 see the trend? with carmelo here, we are around the .500 area... the trend shows with him here we are closer to mediocre than great.. The data is there.. we are not that good with him here, including this current season!

Can we stop saying Lin saved the season please. It was a great run but for 7 games and 6-7 of those teams didn't make the playoffs. Finishing the season 18-6 saved the season. Melo playing out of his mind in April and winning player of the month for April saved the season. Knicks were really banged up. The alleged season saver missed the last 18 games and the Knicks went 13-5.

armelo Anthony Having Legendary Month for Knicks
Posted by NBA on April 23, 2012 at 3:00pm
View Blog
.

The NBA Eastern Conference Player of the Month will soon be announced. I think it's safe to say that Carmelo Anthony of the New York Knicks will soon be named NBA Player of the Month for April 2012.

Last night, Carmelo Anthony scored an amazing 39 points against the NBA Playoff bound Atlanta Hawks.

Melo has led the New York Knicks to a 7-4 record thus far in April 2012 despite Amar'e Stoudemire and Jeremy Lin not playing along side him.

Here are the NBA stats for the New York Knicks Small Forward Carmelo Anthony for the month of April 2012 broken down by game and NBA opponent.

Carmelo Anthony NBA 2012 New York Knicks Stats
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 39 points at the Indiana Pacers on April 3, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 19 points at the Orlando Magic and the Knicks won on April 5, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony dropped 43 points against the Chicago Bulls in Madison Square Garden on April 8, 2012
◾On April 10, 2012 Carmelo Anthony scored 29 points for the New York Knicks at the Chicago Bulls
◾Melo scored 32 points for the Knicks against the Milwaukee Bucks on April 11, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 18 points on April 13, 2012 for the Knicks in the win against the Washington Wizards
◾Carmelo Anthony scored 42 points on the Miami Heat on April 15, 2012 for the New York Knicks
◾On April 17, 2012, Carmelo Anthony scored 35 points in the Knicks victory over the Boston Celtics
◾Carmelo Anthony on April 18, 2012 scored 33 points in the New York Knicks win at the New Jersey Nets
◾Carmelo Anthony scored only 12 points in the Knicks loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers on April 20, 2012
◾Carmelo Anthony for the New York Knicks scored 39 points in Atlanta against the Hawks on April 22, 2012 in the Knicks victory

Carmelo Anthony has scored a total of 341 points for the New York Knicks as of April 22, 2012.

In the eleven New York Knicks games in April 2012, Carmelo Anthony is averaging 31 points per game and the Knicks are 7-4 with key wins over a few 2012 NBA Eastern Conference Playoff teams.

One thing is for sure, NO NBA Eastern Conference team wants to play the New York Knicks and Carmelo Anthony in the first round of the 2012 NBA Playoffs.

Can Carmelo Anthony lead the Knicks to a first round upset of the Chicago Bulls or Miami Heat in the 2012 NBA Playoffs? I think so.

http://streetball.com/profiles/blogs/carmelo-anthony-having-legendary-month-for-knicks

17-27 bottom line..

I did that in less than 150 words..

Kids love Melo! Mooby is loved!

Bottom line is Melo is a hell of a player and pro and con can dance on the semantics and play fantasy GM all day.

I have to come up with a solution otherwise I am mearly a "Jrod" style critic of the conversation:

Nalod prefers a total tank blow up 5 year plan where we sink to the lowest of the low with no thought to any two year window were we even win a game at the price if developing youthier players! This is how greatness can be built!!

That is not going to happen.Im not sure anyteam will do that except Milwaukee by accident.

Given our current state and competitive entertainment pressure in New York the Melodrama will likely call for a return of Melo with a two year plan that will make him and perhaps us feel good. Its cap space to get Kevin Love and somehow get a PG here that can do the job.

Point for point, I don't see it but it has to entail a formula like what Billy King is able to get players to BKN at a discount. They got AK47, Teletovic and Alan Anderson on real good deals. Blatch was a risk but one more year they have his bird rights if he stays.

Mooby himself is entertaining and kids love him! The big number thing is exciting and it sells tickets.

Winning a championship with draft picks is not the direct path but we are a bit screwed because we don't have those assets to leverage. Really the problem is not just trading picks, but not getting good value in return. Can Bargnani get better?