fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

I just refuse to kid myself into believing that we are better off without him.

That depends entirely on how his $21 mil salary is replaced. You make it sound like people want to waive him and replace him with an NBDL player.

look around the league. Use your brain. What happens if Melo walks? What is your plan to rebuild the roster? We are then a team with no impact players. So how are you replacing that? Tell me names. It sure seems to me your picking from a cheap FA pool (NBDL caliber guys) or your going to overpay for a guy who has more holes in his game and is lower impact than Melo anyway... guys like Jennings, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson... your looking at another extended period of 30 win seasons while you pine for an impact player to build around.

Bonn you make it sounds as simple as our impact player isnt good enough to win a title, so lets get a new one. It took this organization 10 years to accomplish that.

Fish, I completely think u are spoofing me the last few weeks with your posting..We never agree and now u are writing the exact things I would say..U got me, nice one...

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

I just refuse to kid myself into believing that we are better off without him.

That depends entirely on how his $21 mil salary is replaced. You make it sound like people want to waive him and replace him with an NBDL player.

look around the league. Use your brain. What happens if Melo walks? What is your plan to rebuild the roster? We are then a team with no impact players. So how are you replacing that? Tell me names. It sure seems to me your picking from a cheap FA pool (NBDL caliber guys) or your going to overpay for a guy who has more holes in his game and is lower impact than Melo anyway... guys like Jennings, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson... your looking at another extended period of 30 win seasons while you pine for an impact player to build around.

Bonn you make it sounds as simple as our impact player isnt good enough to win a title, so lets get a new one. It took this organization 10 years to accomplish that.

But Fish are you ok with Maxing out Melo into his 30's $30mil per year. He leads the league in minutes played. We've seen this play out before. Do you want to see him in a suit on the bench for th remainder of his contract and another decade down the drain?

Bonn1997 wrote:Now if he walks, you're not going to be able to replace him with something valuable until a year later when we have cap room but I do think that 20 to 30 mil can be spent much better, and the bar is set pretty low to beat what we've accomplished over the past 4 years.

I like the option of having $30mil to spend

Vs

A) Melo walking
B) paying Melo $30mil and seeing yet another knick finishing his career at the end of the bench in a suit for half a decade and then having to wait another decade to clear the mess AGAIN

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Now if he walks, you're not going to be able to replace him with something valuable until a year later when we have cap room but I do think that 20 to 30 mil can be spent much better, and the bar is set pretty low to beat what we've accomplished over the past 4 years.

I like the option of having $30mil to spend

Vs

A) Melo walking
B) paying Melo $30mil and seeing yet another knick finishing his career at the end of the bench in a suit for half a decade and then having to wait another decade to clear the mess AGAIN

Losing Melo for nothing means we still have $67,686,515.00 in salary.

The current NBA Salary Cap is $58,679,000.00.

We are still way over the cap. There is no $30mil to spend.

Only option is to trade him now.

gunsnewing wrote:Fish I agree with you that Melo is a player we can keep and build a team around him properly this time around. This requires a GM with a plan in place, backup plans and a good coach who over comes injuries and has all 15 men ready at all times. You build around your stars. Cover their diffiencies. Surround them with a top notch PG, shooters, defenders, rebounders etc

But Fish are you ok with Maxing out Melo into his 30's $30mil per year. He leads the league in minutes played. We've seen this play out before. Do you want to see him in a suit on the bench for th remainder of his contract and another decade down the drain?

Im pretty emotional and more than capable of my share of knee jerks. But after the Melo trade which I hated I settled down and watched. What I saw was that Melo was as flawed a player as I thought. He's also better then I thought. He's not a ball mover or much of a facilitator, but he is good enought to carry a team for extended periods. He's good enough to outplay any star in the league. He's good enough to never had played on a losing team in 11 years. If you watch you can see his impact. Even his bullheaded takes too many shots approach has its positive impact on the game.

holfresh, I try to call it like I see it. Ive blasted Melo in the past. Ive documented his poor postseason play as and terrible record and help him accountable. I didnt like the trade that got him here either, but if you watch the Knicks and be honest over the last couple years Melo is NOT the problem, and if he is PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE give me more problems like him.

NYKBocker wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Now if he walks, you're not going to be able to replace him with something valuable until a year later when we have cap room but I do think that 20 to 30 mil can be spent much better, and the bar is set pretty low to beat what we've accomplished over the past 4 years.

I like the option of having $30mil to spend

Vs

A) Melo walking
B) paying Melo $30mil and seeing yet another knick finishing his career at the end of the bench in a suit for half a decade and then having to wait another decade to clear the mess AGAIN

Losing Melo for nothing means we still have $67,686,515.00 in salary.

The current NBA Salary Cap is $58,679,000.00.

We are still way over the cap. There is no $30mil to spend.

Only option is to trade him now.

That's what I meant. I'm looking last 2015 when these bums are off the books and you cap space and picks from trading Tyson and melo

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:It's time for this organization to start thinking about rebuilding around Melo..JVG said it last night...They have to entertain trade scenarios around Chandler, Shump, etc...We might have to take a second look at Lowry...

Havent we rebuilt around Melo already?

Why exactly would first place Toronto sell their starting PG that ship passed

We have little to rebuild around Melo we made a big commitment to Bargnani you know thats that. Jim Dolan said this is a championship team--a guy like that does not admit mistake EVER. He will have the company line as injuries and well be back next year or 7-8th seed this year or whatever. This is a bad team for a dozen years sans 1--get ready for the next decade.

Simply put, NO..We need to put the pieces in place and clear the dead weight for day Amare's contract expires...Lowry isn't staying in Toronto unless they pay him a fortune...Toronto will lose him for nothing...We didn't make any commitment to Bargs that goes beyond Amare's deal, so thats no issue...Dolan will resign Melo...We have a couple of years to find pieces that fit around him and the next guy...

Toronto is in first place and can pay Lowry the going price-they play the game to win right--so why would a first place team trade their starting PG for beans--they are not.. Remember cap space next year is limited throughout the league. It s the following year 25 teams have it. I have to say we did rebuild around Melo--did we not acquire Tyson Chandler and Felton then the next year Bargs? JR Smith? Weve rebuilt around him once--that is fact.

U can't say we rebuilt with Amare size contract on the cap ...Melo became the main piece because Amare couldn't go...First place Toronto was trying to trade him before...Toronto is not a destination for anyone except Landry Fields type..How many players have bolted Toronto the first chance they get..But doesn't have to be Lowry, but we do have to rebuild and Melo will be here..

No they retooled--theyve spent plenty of money and traded many pieces and picks since Melo's been here retooling. This time it will be much worse. We dont have much cap space if Melo did resign to the super max and 25 other teams have more cap space than we do in 2015.

gunsnewing wrote:Durant is still young and hasn't showed signs of breaking down

Lebron is a freak of nature and he is on HGH

Jordan never broke down

Kobe is only breaking down now at 37

Melo is missing 10-20 games at in his 20s
He is leading the league in minutes
And his team sucks so he is working harder to score so we only lose by 30 and not 60

I don't want to max Melo at $30mil per

I want under 28yr old stars and I want draft picks. I want our own star. I'm tired of overpaying for players

That's bull and you know it. Melo has had to carry the load for his teams. Jordan, Kobe and Durant ALL had 1b's and in some cases 1c's to make the games easier for them. That's the reason why those guys have or are projected to play at a high level in their late 30's.

NardDogNation wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Durant is still young and hasn't showed signs of breaking down

Lebron is a freak of nature and he is on HGH

Jordan never broke down

Kobe is only breaking down now at 37

Melo is missing 10-20 games at in his 20s
He is leading the league in minutes
And his team sucks so he is working harder to score so we only lose by 30 and not 60

I don't want to max Melo at $30mil per

I want under 28yr old stars and I want draft picks. I want our own star. I'm tired of overpaying for players

That's bull and you know it. Melo has had to carry the load for his teams. Jordan, Kobe and Durant ALL had 1b's and in some cases 1c's to make the games easier for them. That's the reason why those guys have or are projected to play at a high level in their late 30's.

That's what I said. Melo is having to work harder here because the supporting class stinks and are always injured therefore Melo himself is breaking down faster

fishmike wrote:I would rather pay Melo $25mm a year then split it between overpriced guys, which is what Gallo became. Melo has no cronic issues physically. The minutes are on the coaches and the roster depth.

I would have no problem if the Knicks took a different direction and traded him, but my gut feeling is they would totally hose that, as well as hose the draft picks or the player development.

I would rather watch us try to get some good players over the next couple of years then try to rebuild. I dont see MSG as being able to accomplish that.

so what you are saying is you rather overpay melo and lose than over pay gallo and another player and win... I mean lets face it, they are all overpaid.... kind of odd why you picked gallo, dude is on a winning team...

you wouldn't overpay gallo and lawson instead?

iggy and David lee?

I mean I can keep going on and on.. not sure why you singled out gallo, but whatever.. LOL