martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

You have a very interesting take on things. Might force me to change my opinion. At this point, I think we are playing for 2015, which might make a charismatic figurehead like Mills useful. I still don't understand why we couldn't keep Grunwald though; unless of course he refused to co-sign certain future plans (e.g. firing Woodson, etc.).

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

If the decison had been rational, your reasoning would have made sense, but unfortunately that's not the way Dolan operates. If it was just about having someone to recruit top free agents, Mills could have been brought in as president and Grunnie left as GM. And lets be honest here- money talks, and so does the situation. Is a max free agent really going to base his signing decision on the fact he's exchanged pleasantries with Mills?

You started with a statement that really can't be backed up. Dolan has a history of knee-jerk moves but doesn't mean organization not capable of a sane one every once in a while. MSG as a whole is doing very well.

smackeddog wrote:Dolan waited until Grunnie had made all his moves. Pretty much everyone has been locked in for the next 2 seasons. Probably thought nothing needed to be done for 2 seasons. But does he really think we're going to sign a big FA in 2015 and that's it?! That's all there is to it?! What about the rest of the team! I would have had more faith in Grunnie finding cheap, hidden gems than I do Mills who has no experience. Does he even understand the latest salary cap and cba (I don't!). If it was based on reason and that Grunnie wasn't the right man for 2015, then why not hire an experienced GM, or at least someone with SOME GM experience? Why Mills of all people?!

But I suppose that's Dolan's world- all you have to do to win a championship is sign a big name or make a flashy trade- no clue as to the complicated work it takes in building a team. Just hire lackey's and yes men to feed into your narcissism.

I have already addressed the fact that Knicks do have GM's on staff: "What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?" This would also apply towards future. And there is nothing to stop the Knicks from hand picking GM that 2-3 future all-star buddies want themselves. Give Knicks breathing room there.

gunsnewing wrote:Read Howard beck. He says this is all about Melo and how he doesn't believe Grunwald has the cache to bring championship players here. If he is going to resign he wants to make sure he has players around him. Sounds nice but Steve mills? He guy who ran the Knicks into the ground and turned us into a laughing stock? We shall see

martin wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

He did his work for this year. When would have been a good time to let him go? And/or if this is a strategic move (and obviously I have no idea that it is), why wait?

If they didn't trust him to move forward, why would they let him keep his job this offseason and shape the team for the next 2 years? Dolan could have hired Mills as president of the team again and not as GM to maximize his relationships with the "buttload of agents and counterparts"

No amount of spin will paint this move as something that makes sense.

azamatbagatov wrote:

martin wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

He did his work for this year. When would have been a good time to let him go? And/or if this is a strategic move (and obviously I have no idea that it is), why wait?

If they didn't trust him to move forward, why would they let him keep his job this offseason and shape the team for the next 2 years? Dolan could have hired Mills as president of the team again and not as GM to maximize his relationships with the "buttload of agents and counterparts"

No amount of spin will paint this move as something that makes sense.

Did we really want Grunmy making decisions for after this season? Forgot about Mills for a moment and consider this? Yes/No?

martin wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

He did his work for this year. When would have been a good time to let him go? And/or if this is a strategic move (and obviously I have no idea that it is), why wait?

Just trying to use common sense--what did Grunwald do to deserve to be removed and replaced with someone who has proven to be awful? Id understand if we were getting Pat Riley but in essence this was firing a man who lead the team to a 54 win season. Did The Knicks win 54 game sin any two years under Mills? I have no clue if Grunwald was just a figure head--that is my own hypothesis I thought that way when he was made GM--as in Isiah makes the calls. My thinking is this is much more about the policies of MSG Grunwald almost never talked MIlls knows Dolans ways and it would be the MSG way to put a man who is an MSG follow the company policy spokesman as the figurehead who can talk a little and Dolan trusts him. This is the bizzaro world of MSG but it is what it is. I hope they stay clear of making moves for now.