nixluva wrote:Over the last 5 yrs Bargnani's production has been pretty consistent. He hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations but what he is as a player is pretty clear. What remains to be seen is if Woody can get a bit more out of him. Couple more rebounds a game and solid D.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Over the last 5 yrs Bargnani's production has been pretty consistent. He hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations but what he is as a player is pretty clear. What remains to be seen is if Woody can get a bit more out of him. Couple more rebounds a game and solid D.

Again nobody has questioned his offensive talent That will be a plus for the knicks. However im worried when we play teams like indy chicago and even jersey who play tough defense on the inside.

Then why are you worried? The entire point of adding Bargnani is that he can score from anywhere and that forces other teams bigs to have to come out further than they want to in order to try and stop him. That's the benefit of having Bargnani. He can give just about any defender a hard time because he too quick and elusive for Centers and too big for SF's and PF's. Meanwhile as they're distracted by Bargnani other Knicks players will have openings they didn't have before.

The problem comes in whether or not he can do a better job fighting for rebounds. If he can keep the rebounding deficit to a minimum then it can be a good trade off. Defensive rebounding is where he's actually strongest. We need to get him nearer the basket even on Defense. I'm going to be interested in seeing how Woody deploys AB on D. What the defensive system will be this year.

callmened wrote:Im worried abot bargs on defense but also melo at the 3 on defense. Melo is lazy and cant guard wings. Thats why hiding him at the 4 was perfect. Not only will melo and bargs play bad defense at their positions but it also means foul trouble. For them and tyson when he comes to bail them out

Papabear Says

Only time will tell.

GREENBURGH, N.Y. -- The Knicks have scrimmaged twice during training camp, so it's too early to make any broad statements about lineups or personnel combinations.

But so far, Mike Woodson likes what he sees from the Andrea Bargnani-Carmelo Anthony pairing.

Carmelo Anthony said he had "a great week" with Andrea Bargnani.
"It’s looking good," Woodson said on Sunday. "I don’t know who’s going to start yet. But I like the makeup of Andrea and Melo on the floor at the same time with Tyson [Chandler]. In the scrimmage we worked that combination. It wasn’t bad."

Anthony and Bargnani, the Knicks' biggest offseason acquisition, have spent the past seven practices getting used to one another on the court.

"Me and 'B' had a great week, just playing together, spacing it out on the court, me trying to learn from him, him trying to learn from me, trying to see what spots he likes out there on the basketball court," Anthony said. "For the most part, he's actually a smart player; he can play off people."

If Bargnani can figure out how to play off Anthony, the Knicks' offense could be a handful for the rest of the NBA.

In the best-case scenario for New York, defenses that double-team Anthony will do so at the risk of leaving Bargnani -- or another Knick -- alone for open looks on the opposite side of the floor.

"Hopefully I can help the team keep playing like they were playing last year," said Bargnani, who battled injuries last season and shot under 40 percent from the floor. "They have a lot of up-tempo plays, a lot of 3s, a lot of space on the floor."

The Knicks should be fine on offense with Anthony and Bargnani on the floor. But, if recent statistical trends continue, there could be issues on defense.

Toronto last season allowed 5.5 more points per 100 possessions when Bargnani was on the floor, compared to when he was on the bench.

The drop-off wasn't as drastic for Anthony -- the Knicks allowed just two more points per 100 possessions when Anthony was on the floor, compared to when he was on the bench.

Playing defense, of course, is a five-man pursuit, so it's hard to single out just how much Bargnani contributed to the Raptors' defensive issues. Same goes for Anthony.

But it's fair to wonder if the Knicks will have a tougher time getting stops when Anthony and Bargnani share the floor.

Another issue that could arise is this: The Anthony-Bargnani pairing may also force Anthony back to small forward. Anthony, for what it's worth, said on Sunday that he has no issue with the move.

"I mean, that's what got me here," he said.

But Anthony won a scoring title last season playing primarily at power forward. He also had success defending the opponent's power forward in part because didn't have to chase another small forward around the perimeter. He may have to do just that when Bargnani's on the floor.

Anthony, though, believes the debate over him playing at small forward or power forward is a waste of time.

"Just put me out there, put us out there on the basketball court, whoever's in the lineup we'll adjust to each other, we'll try to make it work and we'll go from there," he said.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/48545/melo-bargnani-combo-looking-good

What I really hope to see is FINALLY for Melo and another good starter playing well together and off of each other. That was the plan with STAT, but we see how that turned out. IMO Bargnani is much better suited to playing with Melo successfully, since his game is so versatile. That's been my contention from day one and i'm hopeful that we get to see that this year. If this works out it could really push this team over the top this year. I think it could lead to more team oriented BB and less ISO, which we could really use.

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Over the last 5 yrs Bargnani's production has been pretty consistent. He hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations but what he is as a player is pretty clear. What remains to be seen is if Woody can get a bit more out of him. Couple more rebounds a game and solid D.

Again nobody has questioned his offensive talent That will be a plus for the knicks. However im worried when we play teams like indy chicago and even jersey who play tough defense on the inside.

Then why are you worried? The entire point of adding Bargnani is that he can score from anywhere and that forces other teams bigs to have to come out further than they want to in order to try and stop him. That's the benefit of having Bargnani. He can give just about any defender a hard time because he too quick and elusive for Centers and too big for SF's and PF's. Meanwhile as they're distracted by Bargnani other Knicks players will have openings they didn't have before.

The problem comes in whether or not he can do a better job fighting for rebounds. If he can keep the rebounding deficit to a minimum then it can be a good trade off. Defensive rebounding is where he's actually strongest. We need to get him nearer the basket even on Defense. I'm going to be interested in seeing how Woody deploys AB on D. What the defensive system will be this year.

you are living in a dream world.. Homer world.. Bargnani has never affected a game in such a way.. if that were the case the the raptors would clearly be a better team.... you keep talking about pulling the other teams big away... well if he is playing center, then he will get killed on the defensive end....knicks won't be able to keep him on the floor.. and if he is playing PF, well guess what, the PF will come out and guard him.. I really don't see this great benefit you are talking about here.... No one will worry about trying to stop bargnani....

Meanwhile as they're distracted by Bargnani other Knicks players will have openings they didn't have before.

this is a load of BS, this is the same crap you guys spew about carmelo.. how he opens things up for other guys, but whey he doesn't pass you blame the other players for not giving him help..

let me ask you this question, you think bargnani is such a weapon, ok, so lets say all series long he has hibbert on him, do the knicks then shift the offense to feature him while carmelo waits for shots? rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dude you really are in for a rude awakening.. you are in a dream world.. this guy hasn't changed the way any defense plays, plans or reacts since he has been in the league..

If we play the Heat then it will most likely be Bosh who has to try and stop Bargnani.

Tell me who are the players Bargnani is scoring over the most in these videos?
Now you can STFU and stop bothering the rest of us who know BB.

knickstorrents wrote:From watching the 2nd video you can tell how important Jose Calderon is. What I saw from Bargnani was 2-3 actual drives, the rest were perimeter shots that really don't apply a lot of pressure to the defense. Calderon was able to set him up properly and find him in the spots he liked.

You must be blind then, cuz AB posted Bosh quite a bit. He also drove the lane and pretty much killed them from 3pt range as well as mid range. The pressure will come from teams not being able to focus on our other scorers like MELO! They will have to pick their poison. The thing people keep forgetting is that Toronto didn't have a player of Melo's level and the rest of the Knicks are a better team as well. It's how AB will impact things on THIS ROSTER!. We have good PG's who will be able to setup AB just as well as Calderon.

The point I was making is if you look at who often came out to try and stop Bargnani it was West, Mahinmi, Hibbert, Bosh, Ilgauskas and Dampier. Bigs have to come out a lot to try and stop Bargnani.

AB also did help spread the floor. On one play Z (Miami Center) was guarding him all the way out to the 3 pt line in the corner. And Bargs got a basket and a foul. His jump shot is too good for Centers to try to guard him.

nixluva wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:Over the last 5 yrs Bargnani's production has been pretty consistent. He hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations but what he is as a player is pretty clear. What remains to be seen is if Woody can get a bit more out of him. Couple more rebounds a game and solid D.

Again nobody has questioned his offensive talent That will be a plus for the knicks. However im worried when we play teams like indy chicago and even jersey who play tough defense on the inside.

Then why are you worried? The entire point of adding Bargnani is that he can score from anywhere and that forces other teams bigs to have to come out further than they want to in order to try and stop him. That's the benefit of having Bargnani. He can give just about any defender a hard time because he too quick and elusive for Centers and too big for SF's and PF's. Meanwhile as they're distracted by Bargnani other Knicks players will have openings they didn't have before.

The problem comes in whether or not he can do a better job fighting for rebounds. If he can keep the rebounding deficit to a minimum then it can be a good trade off. Defensive rebounding is where he's actually strongest. We need to get him nearer the basket even on Defense. I'm going to be interested in seeing how Woody deploys AB on D. What the defensive system will be this year.

you are living in a dream world.. Homer world.. Bargnani has never affected a game in such a way.. if that were the case the the raptors would clearly be a better team.... you keep talking about pulling the other teams big away... well if he is playing center, then he will get killed on the defensive end....knicks won't be able to keep him on the floor.. and if he is playing PF, well guess what, the PF will come out and guard him.. I really don't see this great benefit you are talking about here.... No one will worry about trying to stop bargnani....

Meanwhile as they're distracted by Bargnani other Knicks players will have openings they didn't have before.

this is a load of BS, this is the same crap you guys spew about carmelo.. how he opens things up for other guys, but whey he doesn't pass you blame the other players for not giving him help..

let me ask you this question, you think bargnani is such a weapon, ok, so lets say all series long he has hibbert on him, do the knicks then shift the offense to feature him while carmelo waits for shots? rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dude you really are in for a rude awakening.. you are in a dream world.. this guy hasn't changed the way any defense plays, plans or reacts since he has been in the league..

You really don't know what you're talking about. If we're playing the Pacers, the guy who will be trying to stop Bargs is going to be West or one of their other PF's. When that PF gets caught biting on a pump fake or PnR, then Hibbert would have to come over, but he's not going to feel comfortable coming out to defend Bargnani. Just watch this video and learn son! See who ends up trying to block Bargnani's shots.

If we play the Heat then it will most likely be Bosh who has to try and stop Bargnani.

Tell me who are the players Bargnani is scoring over the most in these videos?
Now you can STFU and stop bothering the rest of us who know BB.

LOL.. you are in dreamland bro.... you keep pulling out this same video.. let me ask you.. what was the raptors record? why didn't bargnani have this impact you are praying for on the raptors... lets start with that.. and don't tell me about his team or teamates, because if you are going to use this video with the same players, then you must tell me.. why did the raptors stink with bargnani and all of his offensive grandeur? why?

what you are doing is what you usually do... you pull video, you hope, dream, and you use the same video over and over again.. why not pull up the video where he is playing matador defense, over and over again, where guys are beating him to rebounds over and over again, where he is bricking threes, over and over again.. where he is not defending, over and over again.. I am sure you can find plenty of these..

you showing this video in a game where AB had a total of 2 rebounds...2!!!

you are focusing on the wrong things.. but ok, you know what, I will play your little childish, alice in wonderland dream games... ok, so he scores 25 points... now how does that help the knicks when he gets 2 boards and david west gets 15, most of them probably offensive boards..

you are such a homer bro.. and there is just no upside to be such a homer.. you lose all objectivity.. ALL!!!!!!!! you don't know basketball.. you know romance, you are more of a hopeless basketball romantic.... that is not knowledge.. not at all...

but he is a willing passer. if there are actual plays where it calls for ball movement or someone actually cuts the lane, he will pass it off. the # of assists reflects more on his role with the raptors and the offensive play sets than his ability to pass. my boy jose calderon dominated the shot clock and did most of the dribbling work. there was very little movement which made us a jump shooting team. hard for others to garner assists that way. case in point was derozan. 2.3 assists prior to the all star break, 3+ immediately after jose was traded.

secondly, the issue with bargs is that whatever positive he contributes offensively, it is negated (and then some) defensively. for whatever reason, whenever bargs is on the court, team defense is always in the negative. that's why he's been a sum negative impact on the court. i don't attribute that all to him but that's been the case his entire career. the highlights against indy show how he really forces west to comeout (or hibbert). unfortunately, not shown is that in another game, west took bargs possession after possession down the court and scored on him or got the foul. bargs is not as good a 3 point shooter as you guys think. his bread and butter is the midrange game so there will have to be alot of plays set up for him there.

how i see it playing out? there will be nights you see him and say, he's awesome (offensively) and there will be nights where his shot isn't really falling. maybe it's limited b/c he's #2 or 3 in the pecking order. who knows? i'm very curious to see how he performs in ny where games matter. he will essentially be replacing amare. but if he gets hurt, then the lack of scoring depth in the frontcourt is really going to be glaring.