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Melo trade coming back to bite us

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knickscity
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1/12/2013 5:51 PM

cooch2584 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Its always the owners directive a GM will follow. Owner has to sign off on the financials.
He might "go in on it" bit its an organizational decision. No way I can ever imagine a GM of any team in any league make such moves in any way without ownership being on board.
If your right, then our leadership is beyond comprehension.

I'm sure Walsh sold him on the idea.
We all know what dolan is about so we make the best of it and move on.

Still doesn't have anything to do with the simple fact Walsh sold him on the idea.

The when he didn't get him he got antsy knowing he needed better players to justify the renovation and higher ticket prices coming up.

AUTOADVERT

ramtour420
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1/12/2013 5:53 PM

I did not realize tis was that time of the year again.
Time to discuss "The Trade"

I thought we got punked, But hindsight is 20/20. It's pretty obvious we made out like bandits.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair

Nalod
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1/12/2013 5:54 PM

gunsnewing wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Its always the owners directive a GM will follow. Owner has to sign off on the financials.
He might "go in on it" bit its an organizational decision. No way I can ever imagine a GM of any team in any league make such moves in any way without ownership being on board.
If your right, then our leadership is beyond comprehension.
The quote is out there. I'm too lazy to look for that stuff. That was Walsh's plan and I'm sure Dolan was on board with whatever plan he had. He came here to fix Isiah's mess

I really done figuring out who is to blame and all that. The one constant is Dolan so the dysfunction speaks for itself.

Im not really sure what the hell went on the standing position that Lebron makes his "decision" in Greenwich, CT is always baffling.

Was he considering the Knicks or was he just being the attention whore which doing it there was more to throw off the media and fans which added to the drama?

gunsnewing
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1/12/2013 5:57 PM LAST EDITED: 1/12/2013 6:02 PM

Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Its always the owners directive a GM will follow. Owner has to sign off on the financials.
He might "go in on it" bit its an organizational decision. No way I can ever imagine a GM of any team in any league make such moves in any way without ownership being on board.
If your right, then our leadership is beyond comprehension.
The quote is out there. I'm too lazy to look for that stuff. That was Walsh's plan and I'm sure Dolan was on board with whatever plan he had. He came here to fix Isiah's mess
I really done figuring out who is to blame and all that. The one constant is Dolan so the dysfunction speaks for itself.
Im not really sure what the hell went on the standing position that Lebron makes his "decision" in Greenwich, CT is always baffling.
Was he considering the Knicks or was he just being the attention whore which doing it there was more to throw off the media and fans which added to the drama?

Yes and I believe it was Lebron's entourage that game up with that ridiculous idea. I believe Lebron finally separated himself from those clowns last year and grew up and went on to win his ring.

He knew it was Miami all along. Lebron, Wade and Bosh conspired to play together well before "The Decision"

cooch2584
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1/12/2013 6:00 PM

Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Its always the owners directive a GM will follow. Owner has to sign off on the financials.
He might "go in on it" bit its an organizational decision. No way I can ever imagine a GM of any team in any league make such moves in any way without ownership being on board.
If your right, then our leadership is beyond comprehension.
The quote is out there. I'm too lazy to look for that stuff. That was Walsh's plan and I'm sure Dolan was on board with whatever plan he had. He came here to fix Isiah's mess
I really done figuring out who is to blame and all that. The one constant is Dolan so the dysfunction speaks for itself.
Im not really sure what the hell went on the standing position that Lebron makes his "decision" in Greenwich, CT is always baffling.
Was he considering the Knicks or was he just being the attention whore which doing it there was more to throw off the media and fans which added to the drama?

MY THOUGHT? Attention whore.

cooch2584
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1/12/2013 6:02 PM

cooch2584 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Its always the owners directive a GM will follow. Owner has to sign off on the financials.
He might "go in on it" bit its an organizational decision. No way I can ever imagine a GM of any team in any league make such moves in any way without ownership being on board.
If your right, then our leadership is beyond comprehension.
The quote is out there. I'm too lazy to look for that stuff. That was Walsh's plan and I'm sure Dolan was on board with whatever plan he had. He came here to fix Isiah's mess
I really done figuring out who is to blame and all that. The one constant is Dolan so the dysfunction speaks for itself.
Im not really sure what the hell went on the standing position that Lebron makes his "decision" in Greenwich, CT is always baffling.
Was he considering the Knicks or was he just being the attention whore which doing it there was more to throw off the media and fans which added to the drama?
MY THOUGHT? Attention whore.

Dolan=dysfunction we all know this so whats the problem??

cooch2584
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1/12/2013 6:03 PM

Wheres the Clownies?? I need to laugh.

sebstar
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1/12/2013 6:04 PM LAST EDITED: 1/12/2013 6:05 PM

The dolan theory that he is telling GM's what to do doesnt hold:

Layden --- brought in every scrub player he could think of that had a connection to Utah, and the Utah Jazz --- where hes was from. That team was his.

Isiah --- brought in athletic, high priced players with little regard to salary cap restrictions or character.

Walsh --- shed salary and was overly concerned with character, and little with actual talent.

Grunny --- doesnt have a specific identity. A little bit of everything.

So all of these GMs had radically different approaches, and identities in the teams they assembled. Not conicidentally, it fits who they are as GMs, personally. If Dolan were running the show, and setting a clear directive, there wouldnt be this difference between the GMs, because dolan would have a consistent standard. The Dolan hand is overplayed here. Its on these stupid GMs (excluding Grumwald who has been great so far)

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia

Hersports85
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1/12/2013 6:11 PM

sebstar wrote:The dolan theory that he is telling GM's what to do doesnt hold:
Layden --- brought in every scrub player he could think of that had a connection to Utah, and the Utah Jazz --- where hes was from. That team was his.
Isiah --- brought in athletic, high priced players with little regard to salary cap restrictions or character.
Walsh --- shed salary and was overly concerned with character, and little with actual talent.
Grunny --- doesnt have a specific identity. A little bit of everything.
So all of these GMs had radically different approaches, and identities in the teams they assembled. Not conicidentally, it fits who they are as GMs, personally. If Dolan were running the show, and setting a clear directive, there wouldnt be this difference between the GMs, because dolan would have a consistent standard. The Dolan hand is overplayed here. Its on these stupid GMs (excluding Grumwald who has been great so far)

Good, thoughtful post!

cooch2584
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1/12/2013 6:13 PM

sebstar wrote:The dolan theory that he is telling GM's what to do doesnt hold:
Layden --- brought in every scrub player he could think of that had a connection to Utah, and the Utah Jazz --- where hes was from. That team was his.
Isiah --- brought in athletic, high priced players with little regard to salary cap restrictions or character.
Walsh --- shed salary and was overly concerned with character, and little with actual talent.
Grunny --- doesnt have a specific identity. A little bit of everything.
So all of these GMs had radically different approaches, and identities in the teams they assembled. Not conicidentally, it fits who they are as GMs, personally. If Dolan were running the show, and setting a clear directive, there wouldnt be this difference between the GMs, because dolan would have a consistent standard. The Dolan hand is overplayed here. Its on these stupid GMs (excluding Grumwald who has been great so far)

Seb, I cant agree or disagree about Grunwald,lets give him a chance ok?

gunsnewing
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1/12/2013 6:17 PM

sebstar wrote:The dolan theory that he is telling GM's what to do doesnt hold:
Layden --- brought in every scrub player he could think of that had a connection to Utah, and the Utah Jazz --- where hes was from. That team was his.
Isiah --- brought in athletic, high priced players with little regard to salary cap restrictions or character.
Walsh --- shed salary and was overly concerned with character, and little with actual talent.
Grunny --- doesnt have a specific identity. A little bit of everything.
So all of these GMs had radically different approaches, and identities in the teams they assembled. Not conicidentally, it fits who they are as GMs, personally. If Dolan were running the show, and setting a clear directive, there wouldnt be this difference between the GMs, because dolan would have a consistent standard. The Dolan hand is overplayed here. Its on these stupid GMs (excluding Grumwald who has been great so far)

What's not overhyped is Dolan's refusal to draft and develop his own players. Always looking for the quick fix/big splash. Reason why were went through a million gm's and coaches. Grunwald got off to a good start and that is key

knickscity
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1/12/2013 6:20 PM

gunsnewing wrote:
sebstar wrote:The dolan theory that he is telling GM's what to do doesnt hold:
Layden --- brought in every scrub player he could think of that had a connection to Utah, and the Utah Jazz --- where hes was from. That team was his.
Isiah --- brought in athletic, high priced players with little regard to salary cap restrictions or character.
Walsh --- shed salary and was overly concerned with character, and little with actual talent.
Grunny --- doesnt have a specific identity. A little bit of everything.
So all of these GMs had radically different approaches, and identities in the teams they assembled. Not conicidentally, it fits who they are as GMs, personally. If Dolan were running the show, and setting a clear directive, there wouldnt be this difference between the GMs, because dolan would have a consistent standard. The Dolan hand is overplayed here. Its on these stupid GMs (excluding Grumwald who has been great so far)
What's not overhyped is Dolan's refusal to draft and develop his own players. Always looking for the quick fix/big splash. Reason why were went through a million gm's and coaches. Grunwald got off to a good start and that is key

How many years would you consider "draft and develop" your own players?

loweyecue
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1/12/2013 6:20 PM

cooch2584 wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
Nalod wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I don't think it was Dolan's idea to get Lebron. Walsh said the media and fans started talking about Lebron's upcoming free agency and he figured why not go in on it

Its always the owners directive a GM will follow. Owner has to sign off on the financials.
He might "go in on it" bit its an organizational decision. No way I can ever imagine a GM of any team in any league make such moves in any way without ownership being on board.
If your right, then our leadership is beyond comprehension.
The quote is out there. I'm too lazy to look for that stuff. That was Walsh's plan and I'm sure Dolan was on board with whatever plan he had. He came here to fix Isiah's mess
I really done figuring out who is to blame and all that. The one constant is Dolan so the dysfunction speaks for itself.
Im not really sure what the hell went on the standing position that Lebron makes his "decision" in Greenwich, CT is always baffling.
Was he considering the Knicks or was he just being the attention whore which doing it there was more to throw off the media and fans which added to the drama?
MY THOUGHT? Attention whore.
Dolan=dysfunction we all know this so whats the problem??

The problem is more first round exits coming up.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!

sebstar
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1/12/2013 6:24 PM

loweyecue wrote:
The problem is more first round exits coming up.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia

cooch2584
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1/12/2013 6:29 PM

Its been close to one hour since I called out dk7th/tkf and they/him havent replyed to a single thread.Things that make you go HUMMMMMMMM

Papabear
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1/12/2013 6:29 PM

tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
sebstar wrote:
franco12 wrote:its not just the Melo trade - its every deal made over the last 5-10 years.
This franchise is essentially over-leveraged like a bank - and they borrow against tomorrow for a mediocre today.
Letting Lin go for nothing is just one more example of mismanagement.
Signing Amar'e when we missed out on Lebron - another move that might have been better played by keeping Lee (possibly at a home team discount?) rather than signing a star just for the sake of making a move.
Great post...to flesh this out, we essentially traded Zach, crawford, lee, and two lottery pics just to have the OPTION of signing lebron james and another big free agent. That strategy failed, and all we had to show for it was Amare, who is broken down.
Thats the reason why we had to rely on older talent...not the melo trade. We gave up mediocre talent for a top 5 player in his prime. Get real. The cupboard was bare when melo was traded her, because of the mismanagement of the previous regime.
We got Amar'e, who got Felton and Melo, who got JR and Tyson, who got Kidd, Camby and Sheed. Fair or not, Zach Randolph and Crawford were not draws to other players.
And I get so sick of this blazing hypocrisy and revisionist history. People HATED Zach for his lack of defense. They spent Jamal Crawford's entire stint here blasting him for shot selection and poor defense. People wined none stop about 'Avid Lee' and his complete lack of D. Now they are gods, while people blast the players we do have. Its the same c*** over and over! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

a boatload of money got us amare, money got felton, money and stupidity got us carmelo, money got JR and money sure as hell got us tyson chandler.. a 3 year deal and money got us kidd, a ridiculous trade got us camby....

Papabear Says
TKF why in the hell are you a Knicks Fan??? Or are you? You hate the team players you mentioned you hate the owner. Why don't you just go be a Denver fan? Jump the ship. I read some of your posts and its a hate thing with you. You really don't like the Knicks so just admit it. You are not a New York Knicks Fan. You hate the Knicks. ADMIT IT !!
why are you a knicks fan? or are you? start with the owner on down.. you defend this team at all cost.... you like herb williams, dolan? all the trades? salary position.... future outlook? break it down for me...

Papabear Says
WHAT IS A FAN ?
1 A fan is a person a roots for his team weather win or loose
2 A fan is a person who may not like bad players on the team but root for them anyway
3 A fan defends his team from negitive points of views from trolls and haters
4 A fan supports his team by going to some games
5 A fan always try to give an upbeat prospective about his team. but some negative views
6 A fan will go to a game even if he has to wear a bag over his head to root when last place
7 A fan may disagree with trades and be upset but will root for his team no matter what
8 A fan always have hope that one day we win a championship
9 A fan supports the players on his team and if he has a beef he gets over it and moves on.
10 A fan may not like a certain player on the team but he still pulls for him and root for his success.
TKF YOU ARE NOT A KNICKS FAN. I LOVED THE TEAM THROUGH ZEKE, WALSH, EWING,FRAIZER, THE GOOD AND BAD
THAT'S WHAT A FAN IS. AT TIMES I MAY THINK THEY STINK BUT THEY ARE MY STINK GUYS. I ROOT FOR THEM EVERY GAME. I AM A TRUE KNICKS FAN.

funny I rooted for the knicks through all of that mess, now I root for change, that is what I root for.... you call yourself a true knick fan.. I call you an enabler, the type of person dolan loves... keep eating the cow dung he shovels.... right now, I am kicking it back and telling him to change.... I hold out hope that in a year or so, we rid ourselves of carmelo, JR and some other clowns... and most of all I have hope that dolan just gets bored with the knicks and hands it over to men that care about winning and basketball.....
until then I spread my interest with other teams.... being a knick fan has forced me to look at this team more objectively over the years... dolan has forced me to do that.. and I thank him for at least that...
I support a few of the players on this team, which is why I still bother... but this is sports things will change and this era will soon pass thank god..
fans, real fans don't make excuses when they see wrong.... and I certainly won't defend childish douchebags, I don't care what uniform they wear..

Papabear Says

TKF You are just a pea in a pot who have no power to do anything. Hey man this is New York the most difficult city in the world to play for so if you are looking for the perfect guy you are dreaming. You probably never go to any game but still you yap and complain. We I have a surprise for you. If Melo and Smith goes who do you want to take their place? This is a tough town man and I have a question for you. Are you dk7th ?? I bet you are

Papabear

Papabear
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1/12/2013 6:32 PM

cooch2584 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
dk7th wrote:lots of battered-wife syndromers is how you break it down. ironic that dolan runs things and yet he is so obviously a milquetoast, but when you have money it can insulate you from personal defects. dolan is not interested in winning he is interested in putting asses in seats regardless of the actual quality of the team. he also loves stars. and he surrounds himself with yes-men. dolan always finds a way to alienate or force away good people.
the fish rots from the head down.
Going by your logic, I dont see how anyone can have "battered-wife syndrome" worse than those who dislike/hate this team yet still continue to frequent message boards dedicated to it
for me it has been a swing between rubbernecking and being a coroner. i am not in denial like a battered wife is. i am a realist but there are many so-called knick fans who seem to be inhabiting a bizarro world where everything is upside-down and backwards.
when the knicks show the potential for reaching the finals-- hell even a potential strong showing in the conference finals-- there will be justification for genuine excitement. i was moving in that direction the first 15-20 games but started seeing the cracks around the first houston game. since then i have receded back to skepticism and now it's going to take some real re-grouping and leadership to right this listing ship.
look at my signature. ask yourself if the knicks look like a finals-caliber team or even a conference finals team. that's where my point of view radiates from. i am thinking ahead not living in the moment like so many here are willing to do, echoing the battered-wife syndrome of hopes and prayers.
If you have "receded back into skepticism" then you aint a real fan. REAL fans take a loss , and move on and not dwell on it,the same with a win,take it and look to the next game. Some of yall will pick apart a loss like a crow on road kill but they STFU when our team wins. THOSE are not real fans.

Papabear Says

cooch2584 I suspect the TKF and dk7th are the same person and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Papabear

holfresh
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1/12/2013 6:36 PM

Looks like only a few of us going to be enjoying this playoff run...Then again, there is still time to flip flop again...

Papabear
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1/12/2013 6:36 PM

tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:And AGAIN I call out the Melo trade haters and I get no response. AGAIN,HATERS, you come up with all the trades that you think were made wrong and tell us all what our team would look like RIGHT NOW. Or is that asking too much from a small bunch of yous that keep saying,we shoulda done this,coulda done that,woulda never done this. IM CALLING OUT THE HATERS RIGHT NOW. Sorry Martin and Andrew but this is getting to the point that these guys HATE but dont back up their hate with facts.We all know dolan and its his team and he does what he wants and we all dont agree with SOME things hes done so haters if you were dolan what would have you done different?

Papabear Says
TKF and dk7th where are you?? Answer the man. I still believe you are the same person and I probably would be willing to put up money as a bet to prove it. Maybe let Martin hold it until I'm proven wrong or right.

put your money where your big mouth is.. I bet 2g's right now.. and a forum banishment forever... get martin to prove it I am all for it..... either you sign up now or shut up... you put up the challenge.. if you don't take it now, then you are a real clown.. I accept any money offer on that one.. don't back out....

Papabear Says

OK I will put up $200.00 . Martin set it up so we can both put up our money. And I want to know the real locations and Martin verify this by an id.

Papabear

knickscity
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1/12/2013 6:36 PM

Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
Papabear wrote:
tkf wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
sebstar wrote:
franco12 wrote:its not just the Melo trade - its every deal made over the last 5-10 years.
This franchise is essentially over-leveraged like a bank - and they borrow against tomorrow for a mediocre today.
Letting Lin go for nothing is just one more example of mismanagement.
Signing Amar'e when we missed out on Lebron - another move that might have been better played by keeping Lee (possibly at a home team discount?) rather than signing a star just for the sake of making a move.
Great post...to flesh this out, we essentially traded Zach, crawford, lee, and two lottery pics just to have the OPTION of signing lebron james and another big free agent. That strategy failed, and all we had to show for it was Amare, who is broken down.
Thats the reason why we had to rely on older talent...not the melo trade. We gave up mediocre talent for a top 5 player in his prime. Get real. The cupboard was bare when melo was traded her, because of the mismanagement of the previous regime.
We got Amar'e, who got Felton and Melo, who got JR and Tyson, who got Kidd, Camby and Sheed. Fair or not, Zach Randolph and Crawford were not draws to other players.
And I get so sick of this blazing hypocrisy and revisionist history. People HATED Zach for his lack of defense. They spent Jamal Crawford's entire stint here blasting him for shot selection and poor defense. People wined none stop about 'Avid Lee' and his complete lack of D. Now they are gods, while people blast the players we do have. Its the same c*** over and over! AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

a boatload of money got us amare, money got felton, money and stupidity got us carmelo, money got JR and money sure as hell got us tyson chandler.. a 3 year deal and money got us kidd, a ridiculous trade got us camby....

Papabear Says
TKF why in the hell are you a Knicks Fan??? Or are you? You hate the team players you mentioned you hate the owner. Why don't you just go be a Denver fan? Jump the ship. I read some of your posts and its a hate thing with you. You really don't like the Knicks so just admit it. You are not a New York Knicks Fan. You hate the Knicks. ADMIT IT !!
why are you a knicks fan? or are you? start with the owner on down.. you defend this team at all cost.... you like herb williams, dolan? all the trades? salary position.... future outlook? break it down for me...

Papabear Says
WHAT IS A FAN ?
1 A fan is a person a roots for his team weather win or loose
2 A fan is a person who may not like bad players on the team but root for them anyway
3 A fan defends his team from negitive points of views from trolls and haters
4 A fan supports his team by going to some games
5 A fan always try to give an upbeat prospective about his team. but some negative views
6 A fan will go to a game even if he has to wear a bag over his head to root when last place
7 A fan may disagree with trades and be upset but will root for his team no matter what
8 A fan always have hope that one day we win a championship
9 A fan supports the players on his team and if he has a beef he gets over it and moves on.
10 A fan may not like a certain player on the team but he still pulls for him and root for his success.
TKF YOU ARE NOT A KNICKS FAN. I LOVED THE TEAM THROUGH ZEKE, WALSH, EWING,FRAIZER, THE GOOD AND BAD
THAT'S WHAT A FAN IS. AT TIMES I MAY THINK THEY STINK BUT THEY ARE MY STINK GUYS. I ROOT FOR THEM EVERY GAME. I AM A TRUE KNICKS FAN.

funny I rooted for the knicks through all of that mess, now I root for change, that is what I root for.... you call yourself a true knick fan.. I call you an enabler, the type of person dolan loves... keep eating the cow dung he shovels.... right now, I am kicking it back and telling him to change.... I hold out hope that in a year or so, we rid ourselves of carmelo, JR and some other clowns... and most of all I have hope that dolan just gets bored with the knicks and hands it over to men that care about winning and basketball.....
until then I spread my interest with other teams.... being a knick fan has forced me to look at this team more objectively over the years... dolan has forced me to do that.. and I thank him for at least that...
I support a few of the players on this team, which is why I still bother... but this is sports things will change and this era will soon pass thank god..
fans, real fans don't make excuses when they see wrong.... and I certainly won't defend childish douchebags, I don't care what uniform they wear..

Papabear Says
TKF You are just a pea in a pot who have no power to do anything. Hey man this is New York the most difficult city in the world to play for so if you are looking for the perfect guy you are dreaming. You probably never go to any game but still you yap and complain. We I have a surprise for you. If Melo and Smith goes who do you want to take their place? This is a tough town man and I have a question for you. Are you dk7th ?? I bet you are

I guess he feels he is doing something ranting on a message board, he supports Dolan everytime he watches a basketball game.

Dolan laughs at dudes like him, no way I support anything financially that i dont support.

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