gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Ewing plays a more premium position that effects winning. Superstar Bigmen can anchor offenses and defenses. Its a lot harder to do at the SF position.

Exactly. Thats why guys like Duncan, KG, Shaq and Drob win mvps. For a guard or forward to win he needs to be a COMPLETE player. Score, reb, pass, efficiency and play ALL WORLD DEFENSE

That is where guys like Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic win mvps

The only hole in your argument is when guys like Derrick Rose, Charles Barkley, or Steve Nash win MVP. They all were mediocre defenders that didn't make all defensive teams.

They did make All NBA 1st team, something Melo is on pace to be on for the first time in his career.

I said you need more than one stat. Nash and Barkley had more than 1. Rose is very questionable I agree. He only won because they didn't want to give it to Lebron again and Durant wasn't the Durant he is now. Also Rose got the respect because he is a PG. Melo won't beat out Lebron and Durant this year. His numbers aren't good enough

If the Knicks somehow have 60+ wins and a #1 seed, he'll pull votes ala Rose.

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Ewing plays a more premium position that effects winning. Superstar Bigmen can anchor offenses and defenses. Its a lot harder to do at the SF position.

Exactly. Thats why guys like Duncan, KG, Shaq and Drob win mvps. For a guard or forward to win he needs to be a COMPLETE player. Score, reb, pass, efficiency and play ALL WORLD DEFENSE

That is where guys like Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic win mvps

The only hole in your argument is when guys like Derrick Rose, Charles Barkley, or Steve Nash win MVP. They all were mediocre defenders that didn't make all defensive teams.

They did make All NBA 1st team, something Melo is on pace to be on for the first time in his career.

I said you need more than one stat. Nash and Barkley had more than 1. Rose is very questionable I agree. He only won because they didn't want to give it to Lebron again and Durant wasn't the Durant he is now. Also Rose got the respect because he is a PG. Melo won't beat out Lebron and Durant this year. His numbers aren't good enough

If the Knicks somehow have 60+ wins and a #1 seed, he'll pull votes ala Rose.

He will to an extent but it won't be enough. Lebron and Durants numbers are just better. If Melo was to win MVP you can bet fans on other teams forums will minimize it the same way we do with DRose here

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:There is nothing more to be said when Kidd states "that they are winning because Carmelo Anthony is playing unselfish and trusting us and I'm going to ensure he gets the credit he deserves".

Certainly a nice push for MVP from his teammate. He is going to need it to beat out Lebron and Durant. But again 21 games, no Amare, way too early for MVP talks. Talk to me come March

If Melo was playing like crap right now would you be saying its to early to criticism him lets wait until March to see how the season ends?

No but i'm not saying Melo isn't great. Just that he won't win MVP when all is said and done

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Ewing plays a more premium position that effects winning. Superstar Bigmen can anchor offenses and defenses. Its a lot harder to do at the SF position.

Exactly. Thats why guys like Duncan, KG, Shaq and Drob win mvps. For a guard or forward to win he needs to be a COMPLETE player. Score, reb, pass, efficiency and play ALL WORLD DEFENSE

That is where guys like Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic win mvps

The only hole in your argument is when guys like Derrick Rose, Charles Barkley, or Steve Nash win MVP. They all were mediocre defenders that didn't make all defensive teams.

They did make All NBA 1st team, something Melo is on pace to be on for the first time in his career.

PGs play a premium position as well though. They can anchor offenses and defenses by stopping penitration.

this... PGs have their own #s but also run a whole team on offense. Centers have their own numbers, but can also anchor an entire team defense.

Melo is a scorer, and until he backs up those #s with an all NBA defensive performance he's never going to be in race. The REAL (as in has a chance of winning) race, not the "my buddies Kobe and Steven A think Im awesome" race.

Hersports: top 10 player counts for something! I LOVED watching Melo impress his will on the Nets and outplay their big guns straight up. He's playing great. He's not an MVP. Its not hating!

Dirk Nowitzki wasn't on any NBA All Defensive teams in 06-07.

Guess what? He won MVP that year!

gunsnewing wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Ewing plays a more premium position that effects winning. Superstar Bigmen can anchor offenses and defenses. Its a lot harder to do at the SF position.

Exactly. Thats why guys like Duncan, KG, Shaq and Drob win mvps. For a guard or forward to win he needs to be a COMPLETE player. Score, reb, pass, efficiency and play ALL WORLD DEFENSE

That is where guys like Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Magic win mvps

The only hole in your argument is when guys like Derrick Rose, Charles Barkley, or Steve Nash win MVP. They all were mediocre defenders that didn't make all defensive teams.

They did make All NBA 1st team, something Melo is on pace to be on for the first time in his career.

PGs play a premium position as well though. They can anchor offenses and defenses by stopping penitration.

this... PGs have their own #s but also run a whole team on offense. Centers have their own numbers, but can also anchor an entire team defense.

Melo is a scorer, and until he backs up those #s with an all NBA defensive performance he's never going to be in race. The REAL (as in has a chance of winning) race, not the "my buddies Kobe and Steven A think Im awesome" race.

Hersports: top 10 player counts for something! I LOVED watching Melo impress his will on the Nets and outplay their big guns straight up. He's playing great. He's not an MVP. Its not hating!

Dirk Nowitzki wasn't on any NBA All Defensive teams in 06-07.

Guess what? He won MVP that year!

And he averaged 25ppg, 9rpg & 3.5apg and shot 50% from the field. You are just proving my point of what it takes to win MVP as opposed to contend for MVP

WTF does that prove?

He wasn't evn in the top 10 in scoring that year.

He got it because they went 67-15.

gunsnewing wrote:

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:There is nothing more to be said when Kidd states "that they are winning because Carmelo Anthony is playing unselfish and trusting us and I'm going to ensure he gets the credit he deserves".

Certainly a nice push for MVP from his teammate. He is going to need it to beat out Lebron and Durant. But again 21 games, no Amare, way too early for MVP talks. Talk to me come March

If Melo was playing like crap right now would you be saying its to early to criticism him lets wait until March to see how the season ends?

No but i'm not saying Melo isn't great. Just that he won't win MVP when all is said and done

I understand your point about alot of things lining up and the awarded being won after a season, but you have to understand there is a difference between won't, can't and the somberitis point of view.

What is difference? No one is saying Melo isn't great and in the MVP discussion. Just that he won't win MVP when push comes to shove

At the very lease I would say at you're giving future reason why he can't stay at MVP levels, while all certain posters want to do is bring up the past to claim he is no where near that level...........maybe I read your post wrong though.

gunsnewing wrote:He will definitely get votes but to win he will need to put up more than 27/6/2 despite Amare's return

I'll be sure to tell that to the voters.

Thanks for your new and improved MVP requirements.

TheloniusMonk wrote:Never thought I'd see the day that Knick "fans" root against the guy who is a main piece in leading them Knicks to success. It's baffling. Bets being made with the beter hoping that the Knick player DOESN'T get MVP of the NBA? Once upon a time stuff like that didn't happen around this proud city. This board either. These days, the prisoners are running the jail. It's weird. What happened here? Maybe these types of things bother me more than some others. Is everyone here from NY? Sometimes I get the feeling that the opinions I'm hearing are from that of a person from Tennessee somewhere, who happens to be a Knick "fan" but far from a New Yorker. Not saying every Knicks fan has to be from NYC but there is a pride that's missing with some. That diehard, ride or die, win-lose-or draw type thing. I don't know man....

you are rooting for a dude who forced his way here primarily for money-- showing contempt for success and winning, heedless of the team that was being built here and with players had already endeared themselves to the fanbase. he had a willing partner for this transaction in the owner who has been nothing but a knuckle-dragging loser his whole tenure, caring only about putting fans in seats and treating the fanbase with a superlative amount of cynicism and contempt for years and years and years.

so while he is starting to succeed a little bit, it will always come at a price... for he has justly earned the contempt of those fans who saw what he did as contemptuous. in life you get back what you give, or what goes around comes around.

you want his detractors to shut up? WIN THE FUCKING TITLE IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Never thought I'd see the day that Knick "fans" root against the guy who is a main piece in leading them Knicks to success. It's baffling. Bets being made with the beter hoping that the Knick player DOESN'T get MVP of the NBA? Once upon a time stuff like that didn't happen around this proud city. This board either. These days, the prisoners are running the jail. It's weird. What happened here? Maybe these types of things bother me more than some others. Is everyone here from NY? Sometimes I get the feeling that the opinions I'm hearing are from that of a person from Tennessee somewhere, who happens to be a Knick "fan" but far from a New Yorker. Not saying every Knicks fan has to be from NYC but there is a pride that's missing with some. That diehard, ride or die, win-lose-or draw type thing. I don't know man....

you are rooting for a dude who forced his way here primarily for money-- showing contempt for success and winning, heedless of the team that was being built here and with players had already endeared themselves to the fanbase. he had a willing partner for this transaction in the owner who has been nothing but a knuckle-dragging loser his whole tenure, caring only about putting fans in seats and treating the fanbase with a superlative amount of cynicism and contempt for years and years and years.

so while he is starting to succeed a little bit, it will always come at a price... for he has justly earned the contempt of those fans who saw what he did as contemptuous. in life you get back what you give, or what goes around comes around.

you want his detractors to shut up? WIN THE FUCKING TITLE IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS

Leave the past behind, my friend. What's done is done.

You'll feel better trust me.

Trust me on this....when a person doesn't have a point they will ALWAYS bring up the past. ALWAYS. They will never live in the present. Especially if the present goes against their point. Just watch. Any debate you may have about anything with anyone. As soon as they begin to be proven wrong with present evidence, they will go back to 2, 3, 4, 10 years ago and make THAT represent the present instead of the actual PRESENT. Never fails. Not surprising.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Never thought I'd see the day that Knick "fans" root against the guy who is a main piece in leading them Knicks to success. It's baffling. Bets being made with the beter hoping that the Knick player DOESN'T get MVP of the NBA? Once upon a time stuff like that didn't happen around this proud city. This board either. These days, the prisoners are running the jail. It's weird. What happened here? Maybe these types of things bother me more than some others. Is everyone here from NY? Sometimes I get the feeling that the opinions I'm hearing are from that of a person from Tennessee somewhere, who happens to be a Knick "fan" but far from a New Yorker. Not saying every Knicks fan has to be from NYC but there is a pride that's missing with some. That diehard, ride or die, win-lose-or draw type thing. I don't know man....

you are rooting for a dude who forced his way here primarily for money-- showing contempt for success and winning, heedless of the team that was being built here and with players had already endeared themselves to the fanbase. he had a willing partner for this transaction in the owner who has been nothing but a knuckle-dragging loser his whole tenure, caring only about putting fans in seats and treating the fanbase with a superlative amount of cynicism and contempt for years and years and years.

so while he is starting to succeed a little bit, it will always come at a price... for he has justly earned the contempt of those fans who saw what he did as contemptuous. in life you get back what you give, or what goes around comes around.

you want his detractors to shut up? WIN THE FUCKING TITLE IN THE NEXT TWO YEARS

Leave the past behind, my friend. What's done is done.

You'll feel better trust me.

immanuel kant in the late 18th century posited that time is a projection of the mind having no bearing on actual existence. einstein corroborated this 100 years later by showing that reality is a web of space/time, ie that time is inextricably bound to space, and, again, not a phenomenon existing unto itself.

what am i getting at? the past is always with us whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, and is impossible to leave behind.

carmelo is playing with a TON of baggage and it isn't up to me to help him carry it.