Uptown wrote:

3G4G wrote:Melo is not a versatile scorer....

THE END!

No comments on the win tonite?

We took care of business like we should have against a bad basketball team.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Jason Kidd got there, inefficient, Allen Iverson got there, inefficient...I'll take Melo getting us to the dance as inefficient as he is....thank you!!!!

this kind of reminds me of a friend of mine who flipped his car into a pole.. he wasn't wearing his seat belt and that saved his life..... I mean who in the heck needs seat belts right?

sometimes other factors play in.. Iverson, kidd did other things, especially kid who was a great playmaker.... those guys were better players.. but in the end, you do want efficient players....

run across a busy street with your eyes closed, you may get lucky a few times.. but that is not something i would practice..

i would like to know holfresh, what was your view of carmelo before he put on a knicks uniform?

NO...One thing has nothing to do with the other...Try again..

it's all relative man.... it's about doing the right thing,making the right decision, being efficient instead of inefficient, being smart instead of dumb... the same principles apply.

Which is true but those stats are skewed and not reflective of what one would normally considered efficient..For example as Knickshot brought up Billups...His FG% is bad...He shot selection is one of the worst I have seen in the game..He shoots early in the clock, and sometimes further out behind the three point line than one would normally be shooting..He often shoot of out the flow of the offense...But his game is a ball control game....He isn't good at the pick and roll so he doesn't make those risky passes...He is slow, so he isn't pushing the ball on the break with might be prone to 1 more turnover per game, maybe...So his overall assist to turnover should be good...His ft are excellent but his shot selection and FG is horrible yet he is considered efficient...It just doesn't tell the whole story, does it...

There are other variables that go into it...But Billups as an efficient player, can't see it...

yea, looking at billups career numbers you would wonder how that is efficient, without getting into al of the TS stuff, it sure doesn't look that way.. but what i was arguing is that some guys are not as efficient, but they make up for it in other ways, for example kidd.. He was in his prime not only an elite defender at the Pg spot, but an elite rebounder at that position and the best playmaker in the leauge.... the impact was huge... so while efficiency dosn't always mean championship, I just can't wonder why someone would not prefer an efficient player over one who is not, unless that other player has those other parts to his game like kidd does.. I don't think we can say that for carmelo..

that's the whole thing of it. if melo had been a more complete player he would not be such a divisive figure.

he needs to work on his efficiency a lot because he has not been a good defender, has not been a great rebounder, has not been anything close to a creator for others.

billups is capable of creating for others, maybe not in the pick and roll but he certainly is a good enough floor general. and billups's most successful seasons in detroit and denver he was hovering around 60% true shooting.

what would help melo a lot is if he became a little more clever on his drives. as you noted he gets his stuff rejected a bunch. would it kill him to stop and do a pump fake in the lane and draw 2 free throws? honestly if he got to the line 11-12 times a game from getting fouled on drives he would do a great deal of good for his game.

i guess his fans are enamored of this "bully ball" approach-- this is bully ball, right? i'd rather see the dude play with more savvy and cleverness. i mean you have to know they are going to go for the rejection so why not get them off their feet, go up and under, convert and go to the line-- or not convert and still get two free throws.

i swear we will need to see this come playoff time!

Are u kidding???.Melo need to pull up in the lane and pump fake???..Did u just say that???

not kidding. he is too predictable. it's why he gets stuffed even with less weight and doesn't go to the line more. it's why lebron and then the spurs jackson jammed him free throw line extended.

you're right he should do that more, he does it a little

no matter what though the only thing I'm looking for him to do is become more of a savage on the boards and more of a threat in the open floor, getting 10 easy points in transition and hustle plays goes a long way in getting his FG% up

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:P.S....No one who shoots 41% should be considered efficient...

So if a guy went 4 for 10 from the field and 30 for 30 from the line in the game, that would be inefficient? Makes no sense. He would have gotten 38 points out of 25 possessions - that's an insanely efficient use of 25 possessions.

Let do the bigger sample size as u like to do...A guy who shoots 41% FG over 18 years should not be considered efficient no matter how many ft/3s/etc. he makes...

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Jason Kidd got there, inefficient, Allen Iverson got there, inefficient...I'll take Melo getting us to the dance as inefficient as he is....thank you!!!!

this kind of reminds me of a friend of mine who flipped his car into a pole.. he wasn't wearing his seat belt and that saved his life..... I mean who in the heck needs seat belts right?

sometimes other factors play in.. Iverson, kidd did other things, especially kid who was a great playmaker.... those guys were better players.. but in the end, you do want efficient players....

run across a busy street with your eyes closed, you may get lucky a few times.. but that is not something i would practice..

i would like to know holfresh, what was your view of carmelo before he put on a knicks uniform?

NO...One thing has nothing to do with the other...Try again..

it's all relative man.... it's about doing the right thing,making the right decision, being efficient instead of inefficient, being smart instead of dumb... the same principles apply.

Which is true but those stats are skewed and not reflective of what one would normally considered efficient..For example as Knickshot brought up Billups...His FG% is bad...He shot selection is one of the worst I have seen in the game..He shoots early in the clock, and sometimes further out behind the three point line than one would normally be shooting..He often shoot of out the flow of the offense...But his game is a ball control game....He isn't good at the pick and roll so he doesn't make those risky passes...He is slow, so he isn't pushing the ball on the break with might be prone to 1 more turnover per game, maybe...So his overall assist to turnover should be good...His ft are excellent but his shot selection and FG is horrible yet he is considered efficient...It just doesn't tell the whole story, does it...

There are other variables that go into it...But Billups as an efficient player, can't see it...

yea, looking at billups career numbers you would wonder how that is efficient, without getting into al of the TS stuff, it sure doesn't look that way.. but what i was arguing is that some guys are not as efficient, but they make up for it in other ways, for example kidd.. He was in his prime not only an elite defender at the Pg spot, but an elite rebounder at that position and the best playmaker in the leauge.... the impact was huge... so while efficiency dosn't always mean championship, I just can't wonder why someone would not prefer an efficient player over one who is not, unless that other player has those other parts to his game like kidd does.. I don't think we can say that for carmelo..

that's the whole thing of it. if melo had been a more complete player he would not be such a divisive figure.

he needs to work on his efficiency a lot because he has not been a good defender, has not been a great rebounder, has not been anything close to a creator for others.

billups is capable of creating for others, maybe not in the pick and roll but he certainly is a good enough floor general. and billups's most successful seasons in detroit and denver he was hovering around 60% true shooting.

what would help melo a lot is if he became a little more clever on his drives. as you noted he gets his stuff rejected a bunch. would it kill him to stop and do a pump fake in the lane and draw 2 free throws? honestly if he got to the line 11-12 times a game from getting fouled on drives he would do a great deal of good for his game.

i guess his fans are enamored of this "bully ball" approach-- this is bully ball, right? i'd rather see the dude play with more savvy and cleverness. i mean you have to know they are going to go for the rejection so why not get them off their feet, go up and under, convert and go to the line-- or not convert and still get two free throws.

i swear we will need to see this come playoff time!

Are u kidding???.Melo need to pull up in the lane and pump fake???..Did u just say that???

not kidding. he is too predictable. it's why he gets stuffed even with less weight and doesn't go to the line more. it's why lebron and then the spurs jackson jammed him free throw line extended.

For nine years, Melo has made a living going to the hole getting and ones...One of the quickest guys you see rebound a miss and execute a put back and because the refs having been making a few calls he should change his game..Get real...

not change his game-- e x p a n d his game. look at dirk. until he followed up on the criticism barkley leveled at him-- no low post game-- he fell short. and then his coach asked him to recognize doubles earlier and keep that ball moving to beat the rotating defenders.

oh and dirk is an elite TS% guy for most of his career.

why not ask, demand, that anthony expand his game as well?

U don't want him to pull up...U want him to put pressure on the defense to get the foul..Make the refs make the call...Get to the line..Get the other team bigs in foul trouble...He is good at it too..Because he hasn't been getting calls in a young season or is being block down't mean he should stop...I remember as a kid David Thompson spoke about exactly this...Come on, what Melo is doing is exactly correct...Fading away isn't expanding your game..It's copping out of contact...

DK is basically saying for Melo to expand his game, not do something else exclusively.

You gotta admit he doesn't get the calls due to be so predictable.

Melo is known for his versatility on offense, what wrong with adding more to it?

Expand what game..Do you think it's anything extra to pull up..It's not...I would much rather him get the foul...It hasn't been a problem for nine years... But in a few games he should change the way he attacks the rim...ok

i think you are being a bit narrow-minded or unimaginative here. i said nothing about fading away. i am talking about faking guys into the air and doing an up an under first and foremost. mix it up, keep the defense off balance and guessing, draw a foul by drawing contact not avoiding contact. he doesn't have a fadeaway in his arsenal but he should be able to develop one if he is going to go up against longer power forwards. look at garnett's little 8-10 foot wrist flip fadeaways they're a thing of beauty not to mention career lengtheners.

melo fans like to boast about how versatile a scorer melo is. i don't really see it that way. lots of it has to do with his lack of guile and as i said before his predictability. when he drives he does only one thing when he needs to be able to do 3 things.

Did u see the game tonight??

yes through 3 quarters, and have you forgotten that everything i see is through the lens of playing in the ecf? melo had a nice run in the first quarter and beyond but lets be frank here and agree that the hornets, lacking davis and gordon, are not the heat in april. the hornets looked like a jv team out there didn't they?

a lot of you guys want to exult in our present success but that does not mean that you take your eye off the real prize. i am not a big fan of the regular season since you play inferior competition half the time. second round of the playoffs is where you see the true mettle of a team.

part of winning that prize is for carmelo anthony to expand his repertoire and elevate his game so that he can legitimately and universally be spoken about as the equal of those players melo fans so desperately want to make him equal to prematurely.

i don't need persuading that he is playing his best basketball as a knick or even his best basketball as a pro-- but is his best enough to get the knicks over the hump?

He's attacking the rim trying to get to the free throw line I don't fault him for that he's not getting calls for whatever reason I like his aggressiveness not settling for just jumpers

holfresh wrote:With me it's more of a philosophical thing...It's old school ball...I think every time you get the opportunity to get to the rim and draw the foul, you do it...I think Melo is fully capable of pulling up and taking the shot you suggested...I think, he is thinking, he can draw the foul and is strong enough to finish...He gets many of those calls over his career but haven't been getting them thus far this season...I think this is the reason he wears a flak jacket...

Melo is tough and doesn't flop or or snap his head back like Lebron when he goes to the rim ,maybe he should take some acting classes from Lebron but I like my Knicks tough and Melo is exactly that.

+Melo +flopping +vid clips

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Jason Kidd got there, inefficient, Allen Iverson got there, inefficient...I'll take Melo getting us to the dance as inefficient as he is....thank you!!!!

this kind of reminds me of a friend of mine who flipped his car into a pole.. he wasn't wearing his seat belt and that saved his life..... I mean who in the heck needs seat belts right?

sometimes other factors play in.. Iverson, kidd did other things, especially kid who was a great playmaker.... those guys were better players.. but in the end, you do want efficient players....

run across a busy street with your eyes closed, you may get lucky a few times.. but that is not something i would practice..

i would like to know holfresh, what was your view of carmelo before he put on a knicks uniform?

NO...One thing has nothing to do with the other...Try again..

it's all relative man.... it's about doing the right thing,making the right decision, being efficient instead of inefficient, being smart instead of dumb... the same principles apply.

Which is true but those stats are skewed and not reflective of what one would normally considered efficient..For example as Knickshot brought up Billups...His FG% is bad...He shot selection is one of the worst I have seen in the game..He shoots early in the clock, and sometimes further out behind the three point line than one would normally be shooting..He often shoot of out the flow of the offense...But his game is a ball control game....He isn't good at the pick and roll so he doesn't make those risky passes...He is slow, so he isn't pushing the ball on the break with might be prone to 1 more turnover per game, maybe...So his overall assist to turnover should be good...His ft are excellent but his shot selection and FG is horrible yet he is considered efficient...It just doesn't tell the whole story, does it...

There are other variables that go into it...But Billups as an efficient player, can't see it...

yea, looking at billups career numbers you would wonder how that is efficient, without getting into al of the TS stuff, it sure doesn't look that way.. but what i was arguing is that some guys are not as efficient, but they make up for it in other ways, for example kidd.. He was in his prime not only an elite defender at the Pg spot, but an elite rebounder at that position and the best playmaker in the leauge.... the impact was huge... so while efficiency dosn't always mean championship, I just can't wonder why someone would not prefer an efficient player over one who is not, unless that other player has those other parts to his game like kidd does.. I don't think we can say that for carmelo..

that's the whole thing of it. if melo had been a more complete player he would not be such a divisive figure.

he needs to work on his efficiency a lot because he has not been a good defender, has not been a great rebounder, has not been anything close to a creator for others.

billups is capable of creating for others, maybe not in the pick and roll but he certainly is a good enough floor general. and billups's most successful seasons in detroit and denver he was hovering around 60% true shooting.

what would help melo a lot is if he became a little more clever on his drives. as you noted he gets his stuff rejected a bunch. would it kill him to stop and do a pump fake in the lane and draw 2 free throws? honestly if he got to the line 11-12 times a game from getting fouled on drives he would do a great deal of good for his game.

i guess his fans are enamored of this "bully ball" approach-- this is bully ball, right? i'd rather see the dude play with more savvy and cleverness. i mean you have to know they are going to go for the rejection so why not get them off their feet, go up and under, convert and go to the line-- or not convert and still get two free throws.

i swear we will need to see this come playoff time!

yea dk, it is pretty clear, he is what he is.. 2nd tier and not elite, but some are just not happy with that.. even if the knicks are winning..

His offensive game is also becoming like a dinosaur, that bull your way to the basket game is very predictable, do you see how often he gets his shot blocked now...

todays great players and scorers move without the ball, get a lot of "cheap" baskets, easy baskets and can directly make plays for others.. (see james harden, he is great at that) in some ways carmelo game is like a CD in the era of MP3's and file sharing... he has to adapt....if he wants to be relevant, and that includes embracing every aspect of the game...

I agree he needs to work on more array of moves when attacking the basket.

You notice that Melo has no hops. He can beat most guys off the dribble and has quick feet, but once he beats them he can't elevate that is why he gets his shot blocked. He can't play above the rim don't have the hops to do it.

Your trying a little to hard to prove that he isn't elite though. Sure he needs to work on more moves in this specific area but lets not act like he can't beat you in many different ways in terms of posting up, shooting or driving. Name me the other none elite players that can do so?

without bothering to go into it... the list is a bit longer than you may think..but we will just disagree here..

I don't know man. The guy has been in the playoffs every single yr of his career as the best player on his team. There aren't alot of 2nd tier guys that can make that claim. He made the playoffs(44wins) *as a rookie* with Andre Miller, Veshon Lenard, Nene Hilario, Marcus Camby Earl Boykins and John Barry as the primary rotation. Not many 2nd tier guys are dropping 42pts on Boston who had a great defense and only had to focus on stopping him after losing Billups and Amare. Or playing like the best player in the NBA for a month after losing Lin and Amare with the season on the line. Not many 2nd tier guys have the most game winning shots since entering the league (from 03 to current day not all time) with a % of close to 50%.

Or you could talk about his skill set of range out to 3 pt land, back to basket game, pass out of the post, put the ball on the floor and beat his man off the dribble, or pull up off the dribble, shoot in traffic and through contact.