Silverfuel wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The knicks are stuck as well but its new york and there is still hope that after this present team reaches its ceiling which likly has them never getting out of the 2nd round maybe ecf that superstars will want to come play in new york. No chance of of that in Denver. Denver will eventually trade gallo and co and do a full on rebuild. And it will be another 10yrs of rebuilding again until they win the lottery and grab the next big star. Hopefully this time they win the lottery and not fall short of Lebron

I think the Knuggets will surprise. They have a 3 headed center monster in Javale/Mozgov/Koufos. They have wing players in Gallo/Wilson/Iggy/Brewer. They have Lawson starting at the point and old man Miller backing him up. They have UK favorite Faried coming off the bench. I think they are closed to passing the 2nd round than the Knicks.

Its funny when UKers spend all this time on the knicks and never lift their head to look at other teams. Their fans have reason to be excited. Are they championship caliber? Not yet.

Are we despite the "stars" we have?

I don't know. Knugget fans have reaon to excited about their team as do we.

Are we better than the Knuggs? Is that how we measure the Trade?

I am looking forward to those two teams playing each other! Especially Melo back in Denver!

Honestly, would it be better for him to score 45 pts but knicks lose or him score 10 and knicks win?

Anyone care to answer this??

I have no idea why/how you created the other scenario. Did he score 10 points because he only attempted 6 FG? Did he have a lot of rebounds and assist?

There are fans who look at individual performances and look at stats compiled.

Will Melo sacrifice his game for the win if need be? I doubt prolific scorers can envision a win without their contribution. Its how they think.

gunsnewing wrote:Yes those teams are getting old. Doesn't mean the Nuggets will be the ones to overtake them! There are superstars brewing on other teams like the Clippers and teams will be drafting the next superstar Lebron, Howard, Durant etc to carry the league for another 15yrs. Denver is in no mans land. Knicks are there too but only for 3yrs and if handled wisely(not trading expiring contracts for the francis, arenas, crawford % curry's of the world) will be able to contend someday because stars will come to new york. No one wants to play under the bright lights of Denver

i suppose you may have a point about the nuggets not being in a position to draft high. on the other hand, it seems to me that they have a complete and deep team right now that may not need to get that top tier elite player most fans insist is the only way to go. i mean when i think about other teams in terms of depth and youth, not too many come to mind. who would they be?

i can think of only 3 or 4 players that are true franchise level talents at this time. so that means the other 26 or so teams need to think of a different strategy if they have any true title hopes.

the nuggets recipe for success is using their depth and team play and running opponents ragged. they should always be the fresher team come playoff time. remember: red holzman used all 12 of his guys en route to our only two titles.

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yes those teams are getting old. Doesn't mean the Nuggets will be the ones to overtake them! There are superstars brewing on other teams like the Clippers and teams will be drafting the next superstar Lebron, Howard, Durant etc to carry the league for another 15yrs. Denver is in no mans land. Knicks are there too but only for 3yrs and if handled wisely(not trading expiring contracts for the francis, arenas, crawford % curry's of the world) will be able to contend someday because stars will come to new york. No one wants to play under the bright lights of Denver

i suppose you may have a point about the nuggets not being in a position to draft high. on the other hand, it seems to me that they have a complete and deep team right now that may not need to get that top tier elite player most fans insist is the only way to go. i mean when i think about other teams in terms of depth and youth, not too many come to mind. who would they be?

i can think of only 3 or 4 players that are true franchise level talents at this time. so that means the other 26 or so teams need to think of a different strategy if they have any true title hopes.

the nuggets recipe for success is using their depth and team play and running opponents ragged. they should always be the fresher team come playoff time. remember: red holzman used all 12 of his guys en route to our only two titles.

In the past 55years of the nba 1 team won the championship without a superstar, the Larry Brown Detroit Pistons. I've gone through the list before don't feel like doing it again. Dirk, Hakeem, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, KG, Duncan etc etc. Depth and defense is nice to have around superstars. When you have that you have a great chance at a ring. Problem is you can count on half a hand the number of teams in the nba that have that chance every year. It's not like football and baseball where its more of a team game. so many aspects, If you are hot in the playoffs you can go on a run and win it all. NBA is a stars league period.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nuggets went from overrated to mediocre middle of the road team. They are not getting past lakers okc and san antonio. Unless they land a star player. And what star player is going to sign to play in denver? They are truly stuck in no mans land. They will never land a high lottery pick. As frustrated as i am with the knicks after the lin fiasco i will still take melo and co over the guys we gave up in the trade. Gallo wilson and co are nice players but you would think they were larry bird and grant hill the way knicks fans hype them up!

the nuggets have positioned themselves to overtake the spurs and the lakers in the next couple of seasons. father time catches up with the very best, even nash, bryant, duncan, and ginobili. these players are the heart and soul of their respective teams and as they continue their decline the nuggets will just be entering their primes.

the only real obstacle they face are the thunder.

who in the EC is going to fall by the wayside to allow the knicks to similarly ascend? and aren't the knicks presently the OLDEST team in the nba?

LOL if the nuggets are in limbo the knicks are surely in purgatory.

What beverage are you having? Can I have one?

Unless Ty Lawson turns into Gary Payton and Faried turns into Shawn Kemp, Nuggets aren't doing anything soon. Spurs obviously know how to scout and reload, so they'll continue to be fine as long as Popovich and RC Buford are there. Unless McGee grows a brain bigger than a pea, Dwight Howard and a bunch of D-Leaguers will still take Denver to school. I'm pretty sure both Durant and Westbrook signed extensions, so the Thunder aren't going anywhere. Last I saw CP3 and Blake Griffin are on the other LA team.

Rose is gone for most of the year, so the Bulls will drop several spots obviously. ISO Joe and Deron will score a ton of points for BK, but last I checked Broke Lopez is manning the middle. Boston duo of Pierce and Garnett are even older than any of Knicks starters, not sure why that gets lost in the shuffle. Terry isn't a spring chicken last I checked. Indy and Philly should be improved, we'll see how we matchup. Heat are defending champs and are the measuring stick for all teams in the league.

It seems you take alot of pleasure in predicting the Knicks demise, taking the glass half full stance, and boosting up other teams that contain ex Knicks that most would say are just average or mediocre.

i see the knicks roster and i don't see a coherent plan for success. it is a slapdash affair. as a knicks fan i take no pleasure in predicting their demise since the last dozen years has been an embarrassment. i love great basketball and i haven't seen great basketball in my town in ages. forgive me if i am skeptical even cynical.

i don't like dolan. in fact he is contemptible. he is inept and lacks good values. and he attracts the same kind of people, inept and lacking in good values. a lot of people, management and players, have come to new york because of dolan-- like flies to dog****. at the same time he manages to alienate decent people with proper values. so i am not predicting the knicks demise. i just know that until dolan is gone the franchise he owns will also fail, as it must.

the fish rots from the head down.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nuggets went from overrated to mediocre middle of the road team. They are not getting past lakers okc and san antonio. Unless they land a star player. And what star player is going to sign to play in denver? They are truly stuck in no mans land. They will never land a high lottery pick. As frustrated as i am with the knicks after the lin fiasco i will still take melo and co over the guys we gave up in the trade. Gallo wilson and co are nice players but you would think they were larry bird and grant hill the way knicks fans hype them up!

the nuggets have positioned themselves to overtake the spurs and the lakers in the next couple of seasons. father time catches up with the very best, even nash, bryant, duncan, and ginobili. these players are the heart and soul of their respective teams and as they continue their decline the nuggets will just be entering their primes.

the only real obstacle they face are the thunder.

who in the EC is going to fall by the wayside to allow the knicks to similarly ascend? and aren't the knicks presently the OLDEST team in the nba?

LOL if the nuggets are in limbo the knicks are surely in purgatory.

What beverage are you having? Can I have one?

Unless Ty Lawson turns into Gary Payton and Faried turns into Shawn Kemp, Nuggets aren't doing anything soon. Spurs obviously know how to scout and reload, so they'll continue to be fine as long as Popovich and RC Buford are there. Unless McGee grows a brain bigger than a pea, Dwight Howard and a bunch of D-Leaguers will still take Denver to school. I'm pretty sure both Durant and Westbrook signed extensions, so the Thunder aren't going anywhere. Last I saw CP3 and Blake Griffin are on the other LA team.

Rose is gone for most of the year, so the Bulls will drop several spots obviously. ISO Joe and Deron will score a ton of points for BK, but last I checked Broke Lopez is manning the middle. Boston duo of Pierce and Garnett are even older than any of Knicks starters, not sure why that gets lost in the shuffle. Terry isn't a spring chicken last I checked. Indy and Philly should be improved, we'll see how we matchup. Heat are defending champs and are the measuring stick for all teams in the league.

It seems you take alot of pleasure in predicting the Knicks demise, taking the glass half full stance, and boosting up other teams that contain ex Knicks that most would say are just average or mediocre.

i see the knicks roster and i don't see a coherent plan for success. it is a slapdash affair. as a knicks fan i take no pleasure in predicting their demise since the last dozen years has been an embarrassment. i love great basketball and i haven't seen great basketball in my town in ages. forgive me if i am skeptical even cynical.

i don't like dolan. in fact he is contemptible. he is inept and lacks good values. and he attracts the same kind of people, inept and lacking in good values. a lot of people, management and players, have come to new york because of dolan-- like flies to dog****. at the same time he manages to alienate decent people with proper values. so i am not predicting the knicks demise. i just know that until dolan is gone the franchise he owns will also fail, as it must.

the fish rots from the head down.

The difference between the rangers and the knicks is that Dolan leaves the rangers alone. Glen Sather has been drafting many high upside players and when he needs to he makes great trades and now the rangers are set for a while. The Knicks have been constantly retooling the roster and getting rid of young players with good talent. Now i like our team now but we only ave 2 years before we might have to start over

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nuggets went from overrated to mediocre middle of the road team. They are not getting past lakers okc and san antonio. Unless they land a star player. And what star player is going to sign to play in denver? They are truly stuck in no mans land. They will never land a high lottery pick. As frustrated as i am with the knicks after the lin fiasco i will still take melo and co over the guys we gave up in the trade. Gallo wilson and co are nice players but you would think they were larry bird and grant hill the way knicks fans hype them up!

the nuggets have positioned themselves to overtake the spurs and the lakers in the next couple of seasons. father time catches up with the very best, even nash, bryant, duncan, and ginobili. these players are the heart and soul of their respective teams and as they continue their decline the nuggets will just be entering their primes.

the only real obstacle they face are the thunder.

who in the EC is going to fall by the wayside to allow the knicks to similarly ascend? and aren't the knicks presently the OLDEST team in the nba?

LOL if the nuggets are in limbo the knicks are surely in purgatory.

What beverage are you having? Can I have one?

Unless Ty Lawson turns into Gary Payton and Faried turns into Shawn Kemp, Nuggets aren't doing anything soon. Spurs obviously know how to scout and reload, so they'll continue to be fine as long as Popovich and RC Buford are there. Unless McGee grows a brain bigger than a pea, Dwight Howard and a bunch of D-Leaguers will still take Denver to school. I'm pretty sure both Durant and Westbrook signed extensions, so the Thunder aren't going anywhere. Last I saw CP3 and Blake Griffin are on the other LA team.

Rose is gone for most of the year, so the Bulls will drop several spots obviously. ISO Joe and Deron will score a ton of points for BK, but last I checked Broke Lopez is manning the middle. Boston duo of Pierce and Garnett are even older than any of Knicks starters, not sure why that gets lost in the shuffle. Terry isn't a spring chicken last I checked. Indy and Philly should be improved, we'll see how we matchup. Heat are defending champs and are the measuring stick for all teams in the league.

It seems you take alot of pleasure in predicting the Knicks demise, taking the glass half full stance, and boosting up other teams that contain ex Knicks that most would say are just average or mediocre.

i see the knicks roster and i don't see a coherent plan for success. it is a slapdash affair. as a knicks fan i take no pleasure in predicting their demise since the last dozen years has been an embarrassment. i love great basketball and i haven't seen great basketball in my town in ages. forgive me if i am skeptical even cynical.

i don't like dolan. in fact he is contemptible. he is inept and lacks good values. and he attracts the same kind of people, inept and lacking in good values. a lot of people, management and players, have come to new york because of dolan-- like flies to dog****. at the same time he manages to alienate decent people with proper values. so i am not predicting the knicks demise. i just know that until dolan is gone the franchise he owns will also fail, as it must.

the fish rots from the head down.

You are on the money there can't say I disagree with this assessment of Dolan. My problem is with people hyping up other teams like Nuggets and Nets when they are actually in worst position then the Knicks. Ones credibility suffers and makes others question if they are rooting for the Knicks to fail. Which leads to endless arguments that go nowhere

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yes those teams are getting old. Doesn't mean the Nuggets will be the ones to overtake them! There are superstars brewing on other teams like the Clippers and teams will be drafting the next superstar Lebron, Howard, Durant etc to carry the league for another 15yrs. Denver is in no mans land. Knicks are there too but only for 3yrs and if handled wisely(not trading expiring contracts for the francis, arenas, crawford % curry's of the world) will be able to contend someday because stars will come to new york. No one wants to play under the bright lights of Denver

i suppose you may have a point about the nuggets not being in a position to draft high. on the other hand, it seems to me that they have a complete and deep team right now that may not need to get that top tier elite player most fans insist is the only way to go. i mean when i think about other teams in terms of depth and youth, not too many come to mind. who would they be?

i can think of only 3 or 4 players that are true franchise level talents at this time. so that means the other 26 or so teams need to think of a different strategy if they have any true title hopes.

the nuggets recipe for success is using their depth and team play and running opponents ragged. they should always be the fresher team come playoff time. remember: red holzman used all 12 of his guys en route to our only two titles.

In the past 55years of the nba 1 team won the championship without a superstar, the Larry Brown Detroit Pistons. I've gone through the list before don't feel like doing it again. Dirk, Hakeem, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, KG, Duncan etc etc. Depth and defense is nice to have around superstars. When you have that you have a great chance at a ring. Problem is you can count on half a hand the number of teams in the nba that have that chance every year. It's not like football and baseball where its more of a team game. so many aspects, If you are hot in the playoffs you can go on a run and win it all. NBA is a stars league period.

well i don't know if i entirely agree with that assessment. i mean, do you regard the bad boy pistons as having a true franchise talent? i sure don't. they had a few all-stars and depth. the sonics did it without a franchise player. even our own knicks did it twice without a transcendent franchise talent. i even have questions about dirk as a franchise-level transcendent talent, although his run two seasons ago was definitely an all-time great run. last point that i know is sacrilege: i think the last two lakers titles were more about the celtics (perkins knee in game 6) and the magic (garnett-less celtics paved the way for an overrated magic squad) then they were about bryant and the lakers.

so yes you are right that there are really only 3-4 teams nowadays that have a realistic chance of winning titles while the rest is smoke and mirrors and revenue. still, had walsh been allowed to do his job, the knicks could well have been one of those 3-4 teams. as it is they are on the outside looking in and are headed for a rebuild in a couple of years, perhaps sooner.

Isiah Thomas if you can possibility blur out his history with the Knicks is a Hall of Famer. There are stars and then there are superstars. Superstars get into the hall of fame. Larry Brown's Pistons are the only team to win a ring in 55yrs without a "superstar/hall of famer" Guys like Dirk, Duncan, KG, Lebron, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc

Uptown wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NUPE wrote:

biglove44 wrote:

NUPE wrote:NYNY, don't waste your time. There are several posters on this board whose sole agenda is to overrate Gallo, Chandler, Mozgov and Lin and be overly-critical of the current team. These are the same people claiming Melo is not a superstar, Melo ran Lin out of town, Melo is selfish, Melo is a loser, etc. These people also tend to try to insinuate that Gallo will be as good or better than Melo eventually....

Really, this current Knicks roster is head and shoulders above and superior in just about every way to the Gallo, Mozgov, Amar'e, Felton, Fields Knick team. You know someone is either trolling or not rational when they try to claim otherwise.

There are a lot of Melo homers too. Homers that think of as many excuses as possible as to why he hasn't made the finals/won a championship. It's always someone else's fault or he didn't have X team mate.

It goes both ways. You don't like reading homer posts about other players and I don't like reading homer posts related to Melo.

Rational analysis of Melo's playoff performances and playoff teams does not equate to being a homer. What is irrational are the people that cling to this idea that Melo ran Lin out of town and somehow is in control of the Knicks front office. LoL!

Also, I think Melo is a superstar player that still has a lot to prove in regards to playoff success. This applies to ton of superstars (such as Deron and Love). We will see how the Knicks do this year. I don't think they have any more excuses barring a massive injury riddled playoffs like the last two years.

Deron's record in playoffs are 19-20 with a trip to the conf. finals. But really there are so many variables to the team dynamic that the arguemt of "Melo in the playoffs" insinuates the individual nature of the game of basketball. Its a team game.

ITs hard to quantify the arguement of playoff failures when your first round opponent could be enroute to a long playoff run, injuries, and a ton of other variables.

We can argue the intangables but unless we watched every game of those series in Denver I don't think anyone can really lay blame on Melo for his individual play in those series.

Melo will get you to the playoffs and that keeps ticket sales going pretty good.

Fans want champioinships but some owners want the balance sheet to look good and don't want to risk losing money in the years it would take to build a club properly.

Does this mean because Dolan and the knicks have been constrcuted this way it holds true in the future? Only on internet forums.

The stars can always align when your a top 4 seed.

Winning a champoinship is not easy. Losing one is.

Usually they don't for a top 4 seed. Going back 45 years, to 1967 when the playoffs were expanded to four teams from each conference, there have only been seven championship teams that weren't either a first or second seed and only two that weren't a top 3 seed. Of those 45 champions there were 26 1st, 12 2nd, 5 3rd, 1 4th (the 1966 Boston Celtics), and 1 6th (the 1995 Houston Rockets) seeds. Basically, if we think we have a shot at a championship we need to finish as one of the top two teams in the East.

yes these are chilling and sobering stats. what the math says is that the knicks must be a top 1 or 2 seed if the melo trade is to be justified. the problem is that melo's teams have been a 3rd seed only once and a second seed only once in the west. i have never liked the fact that melo's teams have always seemed to underachieve in the regular season, as though there was some loafing going on. and lets face it the "loafer" tag has followed carmelo anthony his entire career.

if he does not show up in supreme shape and with a maniacal focus on defending the position the knicks are in big big trouble.

How do you underachieve when you are competing in the same conference as the Suns, Spurs, Lakers, Kings and Mavs? Those teams consistently put better products on the floor when Melo was still with the Nuggs. Seriously, have you really analyzed those Nuggs rosters?

BTW, speaking of underachieving, 1 year the Nuggs won 50 games and ended up being an 8th seed.

Pleae Uptown we dont need another Melo lover vs melo hater thread. Lets just all support the team we have now

First, I was replying to a post that already was taking Melo to task. Funny how you had no reply to dk's post. Second, stop trying to be the UK police, if you have nothing to contribute or add on to a previous comment, dont click on it......

Look man im excited for the season. I mean im just trying to get fans pumped is that a problem?