NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Top 15 right now i believe are:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Bryant
5. Paul
6. Rose
7. Wade
8. Anthony
9. Williams
10. Westbrook
11. Love
12. Rondo
13. Nowitzki
14. Griffin
15. Parker

Melo has been to the playoffs every year of his career as the best play on his team. How can anyone put a guy like Kevin Love, who has never been to the playoffs at all, and Westbrook, who has never been the best player on a playoff team, ahead of Melo? I rate players based on their ability to lead a team to success. By success i mean playoffs or better. Melo has done it consistantly every year. Love is great but isn't a top 10 player until he gets to the playoffs at least once. I don't have the confidence Love can be the best player on a championship team right now, but i do with Anthony, Williams, and everyone ranked ahead of them.

lol as if the 1st round means ANYTHING. give me a break. this is the stern NBA, characterized by league bloat and dilution of talent. the 1st round is merely a showcase for mediocrity and an opportunity to add revenue. i am sick of this "melo has made it to the 1st round every year" crap. the playoffs really only start counting in the second round.

These are the same Knicks fans that cried for nearly a decade about not making the playoffs. Now the first round does not count. SMH.

the first round hasn't really counted since the last expansion around 20-25 years ago. there are at least 6-10 too many teams for competition to be genuine.

Well, this is the first time I have ever heard this assertion and it really makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying would be true, MAYBE, if the NBA increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs each time an expansion occurred because this would obviously allow lesser teams to gain entry into the playoffs. However, the NBA has NOT increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs within the last twenty years.

although there have been a few upsets by 7th and 8th seeds in the first rounds, most fail, especially since the first round has expanded from a best of five where chances of upset lessen.

do you know how many 7th and 8th seeds have made it to the conference finals or finals since 1988? here have a look:

8th seeded new york made it to the finals in 1998-9 and got thumped in a strike-shortened season
7th seeds have never made it to the conference finals since 1988

making it in as a 7th or 8th seeds is utterly meaningless in terms of winning titles or any concrete meaningful success.

here are 5th and 6th seeds with same criteria. the picture brightens a bit:

6th seeded houston won the title in 1994-5 olajuwon

6th seeded chicago made the ecf in 1988-9 jordan
5th seeded phoenix made the wcf in 1989-90
5th seeded indiana made the ecf in 1993-4
5th seeded utah made the wcf in 1993-4

making it to the first round as a 6th seed means almost nothing, around 8% for any concrete success.
making it to the first round as a 5th seed means almost nothing, around 12.5% for any concrete success.

carmelo anthony's career has been the definition of mediocrity and underachievement:

season 1 8th seed first round loss
season 2 7th seed first round loss
season 3 3rd seed first round loss
season 4 8th seed first round loss
season 5 6th seed first round loss
season 6 8th seed first round loss
season 7 2nd seed wcf loss
season 8 4th seed first round loss
season 9 6th seed first round loss
season 10 7th seed first round loss

even the years of being a 3rd and 4th seed his teams lost in the first round.

but yeah we can win with him as our "best" player.

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Top 15 right now i believe are:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Bryant
5. Paul
6. Rose
7. Wade
8. Anthony
9. Williams
10. Westbrook
11. Love
12. Rondo
13. Nowitzki
14. Griffin
15. Parker

Melo has been to the playoffs every year of his career as the best play on his team. How can anyone put a guy like Kevin Love, who has never been to the playoffs at all, and Westbrook, who has never been the best player on a playoff team, ahead of Melo? I rate players based on their ability to lead a team to success. By success i mean playoffs or better. Melo has done it consistantly every year. Love is great but isn't a top 10 player until he gets to the playoffs at least once. I don't have the confidence Love can be the best player on a championship team right now, but i do with Anthony, Williams, and everyone ranked ahead of them.

lol as if the 1st round means ANYTHING. give me a break. this is the stern NBA, characterized by league bloat and dilution of talent. the 1st round is merely a showcase for mediocrity and an opportunity to add revenue. i am sick of this "melo has made it to the 1st round every year" crap. the playoffs really only start counting in the second round.

Melo was in a very competitive western conference. His Denver team would have been past the 1st round in the east almost every year. He gets a bad wrap because of this. Before he was traded to NY he was widely regarded as a top-10 player simply because he kept the Nuggets competitive without any other stars around him. He had a down year last year but there is no way that you can pick 10 players over him to lead your team to the playoffs. Love, Rondo, Westbrook, Gasol, Griffin, Bynum, Parker etc just don't take over a game like him.

The current team is better than the pre-melo team all around.

It has the same exact pg (FELTON) and a credible backup (Kidd) unlike the pre-melo team.
It has a legit and top tier defensive center (Chandler) whereas the pre-melo team had a gaping hole at center.
Both teams have Amar'e.
Melo is better than GALLO by leaps and bounds. If you think Gallo is better I'd love to hear that argument.
JR Smith is better than Landry Fields and Douglas combined.

Benchwise - Camby, Kidd, Brewer and Shumpert are better than what the Knicks had coming off the bench pre-melo.

It is just disingenuous to claim or even attempt assert this current team is not clearly better than the pre-melo team who was a whooping two games above .500 at the time of the Melo trade. This current team retains Amare and Felton and improves at all other positions. I don't need to see the current team play this season to state something this obvious.

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Top 15 right now i believe are:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Bryant
5. Paul
6. Rose
7. Wade
8. Anthony
9. Williams
10. Westbrook
11. Love
12. Rondo
13. Nowitzki
14. Griffin
15. Parker

Melo has been to the playoffs every year of his career as the best play on his team. How can anyone put a guy like Kevin Love, who has never been to the playoffs at all, and Westbrook, who has never been the best player on a playoff team, ahead of Melo? I rate players based on their ability to lead a team to success. By success i mean playoffs or better. Melo has done it consistantly every year. Love is great but isn't a top 10 player until he gets to the playoffs at least once. I don't have the confidence Love can be the best player on a championship team right now, but i do with Anthony, Williams, and everyone ranked ahead of them.

lol as if the 1st round means ANYTHING. give me a break. this is the stern NBA, characterized by league bloat and dilution of talent. the 1st round is merely a showcase for mediocrity and an opportunity to add revenue. i am sick of this "melo has made it to the 1st round every year" crap. the playoffs really only start counting in the second round.

These are the same Knicks fans that cried for nearly a decade about not making the playoffs. Now the first round does not count. SMH.

the first round hasn't really counted since the last expansion around 20-25 years ago. there are at least 6-10 too many teams for competition to be genuine.

Well, this is the first time I have ever heard this assertion and it really makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying would be true, MAYBE, if the NBA increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs each time an expansion occurred because this would obviously allow lesser teams to gain entry into the playoffs. However, the NBA has NOT increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs within the last twenty years.

although there have been a few upsets by 7th and 8th seeds in the first rounds, most fail, especially since the first round has expanded from a best of five where chances of upset lessen.

do you know how many 7th and 8th seeds have made it to the conference finals or finals since 1988? here have a look:

8th seeded new york made it to the finals in 1998-9 and got thumped in a strike-shortened season
7th seeds have never made it to the conference finals since 1988

making it in as a 7th or 8th seeds is utterly meaningless in terms of winning titles or any concrete meaningful success.

here are 5th and 6th seeds with same criteria. the picture brightens a bit:

6th seeded houston won the title in 1994-5 olajuwon

6th seeded chicago made the ecf in 1988-9 jordan
5th seeded phoenix made the wcf in 1989-90
5th seeded indiana made the ecf in 1993-4
5th seeded utah made the wcf in 1993-4

making it to the first round as a 6th seed means almost nothing, around 8% for any concrete success.
making it to the first round as a 5th seed means almost nothing, around 12.5% for any concrete success.

carmelo anthony's career has been the definition of mediocrity and underachievement:

season 1 8th seed first round loss
season 2 7th seed first round loss
season 3 3rd seed first round loss
season 4 8th seed first round loss
season 5 6th seed first round loss
season 6 8th seed first round loss
season 7 2nd seed wcf loss
season 8 4th seed first round loss
season 9 6th seed first round loss
season 10 7th seed first round loss

even the years of being a 3rd and 4th seed his teams lost in the first round.

but yeah we can win with him as our "best" player.

Your post, while informative, is absolutely irrelevant to the post of mine you quoted. My post simply stated that expansion has not made making the playoffs meaningless and/or the first round meaningless.

As far as Carmelo's career being the definition of mediocre, that is laughable and absurd. If you want to call his teams playoff performances mediocre that is plausible. If you want to call his career mediocre that is simply wrong. What people like you seem to forget is that basketball is a team sport. Pinning a playoff series loss on any one person is rubbish 99% of the time. This is not GOLF. This is not Bowling. This is the same ridiculous argument people used to bash LeBron, Ewing, Peyton Manning and other great athletes that play team sports for years and years and years.

How many consecutive years did that crappy azz Denver franchise make the playoffs the decade before Melo's arrival? How many after Melo's arrival? The answer is that the franchise was generally trash the decade before Melo and almost never made the playoffs. Melo, practically himself, got that trash franchise into the playoffs ten consecutive years starting from his rookie year. More specifically, from 1995 to the seaoson before Melo got there the Nuggets made the playoffs ONE, (1), UNO time. After Melo's arrival the team made the playoff's ten consecutive years.

What a bum?!?!?! CLEARLY! Most of the players you guys claim are better than Melo can not boast this and also DONT have rings. LoL!

sorry that you find it irrelevant. melo is the common denominator for the team's mediocrity and underachievement. yes of course it is a team game but as the putative best player on those teams he has earned the reputation he has. there is no way around it. either you make others around you better or you don'r. melo doesn't and the evidence is damning.

that you circle back around to the "make the playoffs every year" is not persuasive. how about addressing the part i bolded for you? i am sure you have a reasonable explanation. meanwhile whenever i see this dude play i see a guy with skills and talent but poor decision-making on how and when to best use those skills and talents. low bbiq basically holds him back from excelling in the team game and i don't see him getting any smarter.

NUPE wrote:TKF:

The current team is better than the pre-melo team all around.

It has the same exact pg (FELTON) and a credible backup (Kidd) unlike the pre-melo team.
It has a legit and top tier defensive center (Chandler) whereas the pre-melo team had a gaping hole at center.
Both teams have Amar'e.
Melo is better than GALLO by leaps and bounds. If you think Gallo is better I'd love to hear that argument.
JR Smith is better than Landry Fields and Douglas combined.

Benchwise - Camby, Kidd, Brewer and Shumpert are better than what the Knicks had coming off the bench pre-melo.

It is just disingenuous to claim or even attempt assert this current team is not clearly better than the pre-melo team who was a whooping two games above .500 at the time of the Melo trade. This current team retains Amare and Felton and improves at all other positions. I don't need to see the current team play this season to state something this obvious.

NUPE, you are hoping it is better... remember that was felton playing under dantoni.. we have yet to see felton under woodson.. he sure didn't do well under nate who IMO was a better coach than "woody".... you or I really don't know what this team will do, we have been down this road and so far all we have had is underachievement...

Melo is better than GALLO by leaps and bounds.

scorer..yes, player... not for my team..... carmelo as a "basketball player".. leaves little to be desired... again, him being better than gallo in your eyes.. has done what for the knicks nupe?

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:tkf meet dk.

Can you two possibly merge? Or, are you already merged?

I personally don't care if Melo is top 5 or top 20. Contracts and player value is mostly determined by the market. What are teams willing to pay for him. For Melo, any team with the ability to get him and/or had the cap space would have jumped and would still today.

As far as Amare, the only other team willing to sign him was phx at 40 million less than we paid. Nice going Mr. Walsh.

Chandler was an FA that was not going to be resigned and Gallo probably got more than he is worth based on his market value.

The pressure is on everyone - Melo, Amare, Felton, Woody, Isiah and Chandler

yes contracts are based on what the market will bear. but what the market will bear rarely reflects cost versus value. in basketball qua basketball value is based on winning games and winning titles. if not winning then cost is based on putting asses in seats.

not every player who is being paid what the market will bear is dedicated to winning. that's the reality here.

That's arguable. Many said that Paul Pierce was not dedicated to winning and then he won. Whatever is being said about Melo was said about PP. Then PP was surrounded with the right players and these things were no longer mentioned.

Melo fought his ass off in the playoffs this year while Amare stayed home, Lin was out and Chandler laid an egg. Was that not dedicated? When Melo lost to SA and averaged 27 points and 8 rebounds on 48 percent shooting, was he not dedicating himself to winning? He had some years that he was excellent in the playoffs and some years that his pct was off. Do you remember when he did not dedicate himself to winning in the playoffs?

With MDA, he was certainly sidetracked this year and I blame him for that.

Was Wade dedicated to winning when he played without Shaq and the team was awful? Was Garnett dedicated to winning as a perennial loser in Minny (on a damn good team)?

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

Melo needs a PG or a facilitator. He is not Lebron (obviously). I would have loved to see how he would have played with Steve Nash.

once and for all time please stop this argument.. really, it is so tired... those guys are just better players.. no one questioned their will to win, for pierce it was a maturity issue, he was always known as a gym rat.. carmelo has had his conditioning and will to win questioned for years... no one questioned garnett because he put in work, and it showed, minny wasn't a winner but garnett was recognized, with awards, mvp,defensive player of the year, all nba first team... same thing with wade.. they were recognized around the league, their work ethic never questioned..

stop trying to align carmelo with guys that are out of his league.. really it makes for such a bad argument..

you say what carmelo needed was a PG, then he should have stayed his azz in denver where they had a pretty good one in andre miller!!!!!

Winning makes you look like you were dedicated to it.

NO, actually being dedicated to your craft makes you look like it.. and it also at some point will lead to winning...

There goes your tunnel vision and lack of analytical reasoning capabilities shining for all.

I never said that he was as good as Garnett or Wade (I've said numerous times that he is not), its the point of them not winning without supercasts but you are too busy pointing out the fallacies in others arguments to realize that.

Andre Miller left the Sixers during the 2006-2007 season LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL - but I am sure you knew that "He should have stayed in Denver with Andre Miller" LOL LOL LOL LOL. Nice to trade away a guy like Miller for a guy like AI.

I would have loved to see him play with a "SUPERSTAR" PG ala Nash. But you probably did not get that.

Miller was a good PG and so was Billups. Your BS will never successfully circumvent the argument of needing 2 SUPER STARS even though you sadly try to toss names like AI (40 pct for his career), Camby (Superstar?), Amare (LOL LOL LOL) ...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

2nd and 3rd team all nba is fine for me - I don't give a shyt about awards and could not care less where he ranks as a player.

You amuse me LOL LOL

eh, no biggie, I forgot miller had two stints in denver, anyway melo had billups, that I do know, and if I am not mistaken he also had a young ty lawson.. if he needed PG's he had them there, why was he trying to leave...

PP was a gym rat LOL LOL LOL - good comeback.

debating with you is so easy.. you always put the ball on the tee...

here you go, someone with first hand experience of his work ethic.. the first 37 seconds says it all..LOL

I did compare Melo to PP and believe that is a good comparison. Where is PP's awards? Your argument ... He was the NBA finals MVP. Me ... LOL LOL LOL LOL

in all honesty pierce doesn't belong in the same group as wade, lebron and garnett, but he is mvp of the finals and a champion.. You hang your hat on pierce because somehow it validates MR "17"...in your eyes.. but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player, and he didn't get star players in garnett and allen, those guys were past their best years, yet he was able to mesh and win with them... while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates.... not the same bro..... oh and I forgot.. Lol lol lol lol.. smdh

Garnett, Allen were passed their "best" years? You are all over the place! How do you define "best", by numbers or contribution to championships?

Garnett:

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2007-08 NBA Defensive Player of the Year

And Allen was still a great 2 and averaged over 60 pct in TS. Now I know that it is hard to compare him to Landry Fields being that Landry was in his Prime .... LOL

Ouch!

"but the truth is, paul pierce is just a better player"

THIS is a great argument!

"while in year 3 we are still trying to figure out if melo can share the toys with his fellow teamates"

I think that what we know in year 3 is that the Knicks have not had anything close to the Boston squad.

Pierce is not in Wade, Lebron and Garnetts category - AGREED - and neither is Melo. However, you just pretty much stated that PP was a number two on this squad - AGREED. How nice is it to be that good and still play with a number one?? PRETTY PRETTY GOOD!

So ... maybe Melo is a number and needs to play with a number one like Lebron, Wade, Garnett or Shaq? Huh?

Talk about a fat pitch!

i am going to make this real simple for you... let me ask. were Allen and Garnett's best years with the celtics or previous teams.. yes, both were still good players, but not the players they were a few years prior to the trade....

this is an easy answer...

you are a typical side bar poster... and I understand, you are reaching.. and when people are drowning they grab for whatever they can.. ok, so lets play your game..

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

and that is great, it still goes to show that garnett was still a top level defensive player.. but not the overall player he was in minny.. since coming to boston he never averaged a double double, something he did pretty much every year in minny,he was also MVP while in minny.... he and ray allen were still very good players, but not the elite players you would like to make it out to be.. and the only reason, the only reason you want to pump up a 32-36 year old KG and ray allen because it in your eyes gives your argument hope that all carmelo needs is a garnett and a ray allen...

well guess what, if that is what he needs, then why is he getting paid max money? isn't that even more reason to hate this move? if carmelo needs all of those things, then why acquire him? your argument is that pierce needed elite talent as does carmelo.. well we can make that claim for a lot of guys.. which leads me to this question.. if that is the case, what makes carmelo so special.... shouldn't we have gone for the elite guys from the start and if not, just take another route? one which left you flexibility?

thanks for trying man, but again, you fail..

You are really dense!

Garnett was 1st team all NBA the year of the title!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do I need to break out my puppets? If he declined in any way, he was still good enough to be 1st team ALL NBA!! geez! PP WAS NOT EVER FIRST TEAM ALL NBA!!

If Shaq was a max player why did they need Kobe or vise versa? Is Wade not a max player? Is PPPPPPPPPP not a max player because he player with an all world All NBA first teamer which he is not? This is the best you can offer?

"shouldn't we have gone for the elite guys from the start?"

Didn't we try? Of course we wanted a 1 first. Its hard to get a 1!!!!!!!

Keep blabbing jibberblabber ...

mr knickshot... plain and simple, take your tail and tuck it in on the way out.. you have been beaten to hell on this argument... End of story..

Garnett, and allen were not the elite players they once were... as acknowledged, were they still very good players.. yes..... but your premise that pierce had all world players come here is false and you are foolish for trying to sell that point...

but you know what... I will bite, just so I can be done with you.. Ok, pierce had two of the greatest players in the NBA join him.. that is the only reason why he won a ring.. although he was MVP of the finals.. LOL...

with that said....we already had amare, a guy with more accolades in the NBA than carmelo.. why didn't we give amare his KG and allen instead we give him carmelo, a guy who needed, according to YOU.. a KG and allen... LOL doesn't that show this plan was bad from the start? and why so many fans are upset at what happened to this team?

this doesn't mean carmelo is bad, that he isn't one of if not the best STREAK scorer in league. this doesn't mean he is useless, all it means is that dolan had no business trading away so many assets, young players, picks, cap space to get a guy, who needed superstars in order to win and pay him superstar money... we had that guy in amare already, except amare IMO was the better player....and didn't cost us anything more than cap space that we had plenty of...

AGAIN YOU FAIL ON EVERY LEVEL.. PLEASE STOP BECAUSE THIS IS BORDERING ON CHILD ABUSE!!!!

"mr knickshot... plain and simple, take your tail and tuck it in on the way out.. you have been beaten to hell on this argument... End of story.."

Haha - I love these proclamations - interesting tactic to use when your facts and illogic don't hold up.

Another "AGAIN YOU FAIL ON EVERY LEVEL.. PLEASE STOP BECAUSE THIS IS BORDERING ON CHILD ABUSE!!!!"

Very cute. Are you married? Just curious.

why didn't we give amare his KG and allen instead we give him carmelo, a guy who needed, according to YOU.. a KG and allen... LOL doesn't that show this plan was bad from the start?

Are you really asking this DUMB question? Do you not think the knicks woulda jumped for a KG type player if they could have? WOW!

Why didn't they get Lebron to put with Amare??????????? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - dumb question - sorry.

"so many assets, young players, picks, cap space to get a guy"

I am just pissed that you reminded me about Anthony Randolph - I have not slept since. And BTW, I always stated that the knicks gave up too much since I believe that they were partly bidding against themselves.

"we had that guy in amare already, except amare IMO was the better player....and didn't cost us anything more than cap space that we had plenty of..."

Interesting that nobody wanted amare besides PHX meek offer of 60 million vs. our 100 million. Nah ... that did not hurt us - he played good for half a season. But heck! We had the cap space.

Do you remember how the knicks were playing prior to the trade?

28 games prior to trade = 12-16

final 28 games - 14-14

But, the future was so freakin bright! Amare was declining and so was the team. But hey, there was cancer Melo already in the air so fuk yea we can still blame the nincompoop.

Hillarious!

Nice to see you post in the NFL REF thread - I thought you only talked about / hated on Melo.

Oh one last piece of your insanity:

"Garnett, and allen were not the elite players they once were... as acknowledged, were they still very good players.. yes..... but your premise that pierce had all world players come here is false and you are foolish for trying to sell that point..."

Garnett though perhaps not as good as previous years was still good enough to be DPOY AND 1ST TEAM ALL NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you have the balls to make such a bonehead statement?????????

At some point as much as you try to avoid it like the/plague, you will be forced to admit that your opinions are based on disdain and not logic (as I have proven). AND THAT WOULD BE OK

And again, I DON'T THINK MELO IS BETTER THAN TOP 10 - BUT NEITHER IS PIERCE. They are very good PIECES that in todays market get max contracts and when teamed with 1ST TEAM ALL NBAers can be PART of a winning team.

Your contention is that we gave up a lot for him. Maybe we did and like many logical posters have stated, we can judge 3 years post trade. As far as max money, that is a no brainer based on market.

3G4G wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

NUPE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Top 15 right now i believe are:

1. James
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Bryant
5. Paul
6. Rose
7. Wade
8. Anthony
9. Williams
10. Westbrook
11. Love
12. Rondo
13. Nowitzki
14. Griffin
15. Parker

Melo has been to the playoffs every year of his career as the best play on his team. How can anyone put a guy like Kevin Love, who has never been to the playoffs at all, and Westbrook, who has never been the best player on a playoff team, ahead of Melo? I rate players based on their ability to lead a team to success. By success i mean playoffs or better. Melo has done it consistantly every year. Love is great but isn't a top 10 player until he gets to the playoffs at least once. I don't have the confidence Love can be the best player on a championship team right now, but i do with Anthony, Williams, and everyone ranked ahead of them.

lol as if the 1st round means ANYTHING. give me a break. this is the stern NBA, characterized by league bloat and dilution of talent. the 1st round is merely a showcase for mediocrity and an opportunity to add revenue. i am sick of this "melo has made it to the 1st round every year" crap. the playoffs really only start counting in the second round.

These are the same Knicks fans that cried for nearly a decade about not making the playoffs. Now the first round does not count. SMH.

the first round hasn't really counted since the last expansion around 20-25 years ago. there are at least 6-10 too many teams for competition to be genuine.

Well, this is the first time I have ever heard this assertion and it really makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying would be true, MAYBE, if the NBA increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs each time an expansion occurred because this would obviously allow lesser teams to gain entry into the playoffs. However, the NBA has NOT increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs within the last twenty years.

although there have been a few upsets by 7th and 8th seeds in the first rounds, most fail, especially since the first round has expanded from a best of five where chances of upset lessen.

do you know how many 7th and 8th seeds have made it to the conference finals or finals since 1988? here have a look:

8th seeded new york made it to the finals in 1998-9 and got thumped in a strike-shortened season
7th seeds have never made it to the conference finals since 1988

making it in as a 7th or 8th seeds is utterly meaningless in terms of winning titles or any concrete meaningful success.

here are 5th and 6th seeds with same criteria. the picture brightens a bit:

6th seeded houston won the title in 1994-5 olajuwon

6th seeded chicago made the ecf in 1988-9 jordan
5th seeded phoenix made the wcf in 1989-90
5th seeded indiana made the ecf in 1993-4
5th seeded utah made the wcf in 1993-4

making it to the first round as a 6th seed means almost nothing, around 8% for any concrete success.
making it to the first round as a 5th seed means almost nothing, around 12.5% for any concrete success.

carmelo anthony's career has been the definition of mediocrity and underachievement:

season 1 8th seed first round loss
season 2 7th seed first round loss
season 3 3rd seed first round loss
season 4 8th seed first round loss
season 5 6th seed first round loss
season 6 8th seed first round loss
season 7 2nd seed wcf loss
season 8 4th seed first round loss
season 9 6th seed first round loss
season 10 7th seed first round loss

even the years of being a 3rd and 4th seed his teams lost in the first round.

but yeah we can win with him as our "best" player.

I'll add some material later which will thrash and shred Melo's turbulent Post-Season in comparison to Regular season

Remember I said I'd return and it wouldn't be pretty information delivered

In Melo's 7 seasons as a Nugget he's amassed a whopping total of 16 playoff wins

In Denver's season and a half post Melo era they have amassed 4 playoff wins

If my math is correct the post Melo Nuggets currently are a season's pace ahead in total playoff wins(they would reach 16wins in 6 full seasons) but it has to be qualified (making the post-season in consecutive years to match the Denver Melo era post-season pace)

We have to hope the Heat and/or Boston(they seem to have retooled in time) are nothing like the Spurs or Lakers. Kind of wonder did the Nuggets truly peak with Melo we'll never know this. The problem I see at the moment teams like the Brooklyn Nets/Pacers and Bulls to a greater degree are very much like the Jazz/Clippers/Mavs mid to latter 2000's(2004-2009).....teams the Melo led Nuggets struggled with.

Melo had

Chander=Nene...slight edge Chandler
Camby now<Camby then
Kidd now<Miller or Billups then
Amare now>Kenyon then
Smith now=Smith then

If we are to make any move of reaching the mountain top the time is now while D-Rose is crippled. Problem is we have a player who's crippled the same vein Shumpert, can we overcome his absence and build enough chemistry?

At the same time Denver is running into their own potential Spurs and Lakers in OKC and Clippers...while the Spurs and Lakers are Spurs and Lakers still. The key IMO Denver has a greater chance to weather the storm we don't.

and I 'll also add this

Melo has only taken this franchise 1 additional post-season and 1 playoff game further than Marbury, which isn't saying much at all. He took us much less further in a similar lockout season than Spree(a lesser caliber player according to quite a few here)

Yes he took Denver further than they had ever been in several seasons prior to, although I'd wager to say Motumbo's Nuggets upsetting Sonics is probably more etched in the minds of their fans vs any moment during the Melo era.

Another interesting point to note... Melo's first year as a Nugget he helped improve the team by 26gms from previous season. How could we omit the addition of a PRIME Andre Miller the same year(who has proven to help teams in most of his stops throughout his career)?

A season later appears Melo(other players) may have had an axe to grind with Jeff Biz or there was turmoil with mgmt(Kiki)

you know like last year here in New York because

they were 17-25....this is with the addition of Kenyon Martin. They took off from when Jeff B. and Cooper were replaced by George Karl finishing 32-8 with him at helm. The team steadily improved year-by-year record wise and from an offensive perspective. Peaked with 1 WCF appearance.

Ironically the Melo era runs it's course, he leaves to come here and yet the Nuggets maintain their 45-50win season pace and scoring output after losing "THE BEST PURE SCORER WORTH $20MIL SHOULD BE TOP 10 MAX PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE"

Who remained in Denver....GEORGE KARL. Say what you want about him but he probably had more to do with whatever success the Nuggets had more so than Melo.

Again, your post is totally irrelevant to the original discussion you injected yourself into. There was a statement made that making the playoffs is not important due to expansion. I responded stating:

"Well, this is the first time I have ever heard this assertion and it really makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying would be true, MAYBE, if the NBA increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs each time an expansion occurred because this would obviously allow lesser teams to gain entry into the playoffs. However, the NBA has NOT increased the number of teams that could make the playoffs within the last twenty years."

You then decided to spam out multiple posts about Melo's playoff teams. Your post do not speak to expansion nor do they speak to why making the playoffs and playing in the first round is not important. Thus, you simply jumped into a thread, injected yourself, failed to read and comprehend the post you were responding to / quoting then responded with irrelevant data. If you hate Melo, just say so. No need to spam out tripe and info that is totally irrelevant to the post you initially quoted.

In response to the content of your post, all the crap you spammed can be said about other great/HOF players that also lost many times in early rounds and ultimately had increased success in their prime and/or later in their careers.