mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:So since you claim that the Linsanity schedule has gotten exaggerated more by the week, here we go!

Here is a breakdown of the Linsanity schedule:

Feb. 4 vs. New Jersey Nets (13-20 on road)
Feb. 6 vs. Utah Jazz (11-22 on road)
Feb. 8 at Washington (11-22 at home)
Feb. 10 vs. Los Angeles Lakers (15-18 on road)
Feb. 11 at Minnesota Timberwolves (13-20 at home)
Feb. 14 at Toronto (13-20 at home)
Feb. 15 vs. Sacramento (6-27 on road)
Feb. 17 vs. New Orleans Hornets (10-23 on road)
Feb. 19 vs. Dallas Mavericks (13-20 on road)

combined 105 wins vs 192 losses

Can it get any easier???

CASE CLOSED

That can't be right. You're claiming that those 11 teams played a combined 297 games last season.

I did not total their winning pct as a whole, that would not be an accurate assessment since it depends on if the games were at Home or Away.

I totaled up the full season winning pct for either their home or away record depending on where the game was played. How is that not fair and accurate? And, I did the same for the post Linsanity record to give it proper context.

I compared the Linsanity games to the 10 games post Linsanity (when Melo came back) until MDA left.

So, the Linsanity oppositions adjusted winning pct was .362 vs the post Linsanity oppositions adjusted winning pct of .621

Far from the same no? So who killed Linsanity? Looks like the schedule did to me.

Now that you've explained what you did, I would say it is reasonable.
Given that our opponents winning percentage was .480 for the season, you could say that the Linsanity run was a little closer to the level of opponent we'd be seeing regularly than the post-Linsanity run was, although the Linsanity run still was easier.

Well yes. .480 is closer to .350 then .350 is to .621. However, many stated that Melo killed Linsanity and I am just proving that this is completely not the case.

So lets look at the full picture:

Pre-Linsanity, the knicks had TD as the PG. Lin turned out to be a very good player and TD was not. That, and the fact that the Linsanity schedule was easy as 123 was a bit of a camouflager to what Linsanity really was. As I said, it did not prove much about the system as it proved that we needed any viable PG that was not named Toney. Let's not forget that the system was so un-adaptable to it's players that MDA allowed TD to lead the knicks by a decent margin in 3 pt attempts while shooting a whopping 25% from downtown.

MDA knows offense. But its only his offense that he is really good at executing.

And, all the blanket statements of how Melo killed Linsanity and comparing the two records is stupider than stupid.

I loved Lin and will miss him on the Knicks. I can't say that I hope he does well since he is now playing for an enemy. Did the knicks make the correct move by not bringing him back? I can't say because I am not a capologist but I did wish that they brought him back.

my question to you and the rest of the MDA bashers

If MDA comes to NY now (instead of 4 yrs ago) with an above avg pg (like a felton) you don't think he can win a championship..

we keep straying away from the real argument/conversation..

In all honesty, most coaches are going to get tuned out when losing is in the picture, doesn't matter who you are(maybe not popovich)..

I think when you have a talented team that should be winning and there not feeling your flow, there going to start ignoring you, or running plays half ass..We started hearing Amare saying this earlier in the season, he even said it at the end of last season..You know Melo was the primary culprit right..

The look on Amare's face some nights when he got the ball was like..."O sht you pass me the ball" there were times he look lost cause the plays were not being run right, guys just weren't buying in 100%.

I mean PHIL JACKSON couldn't have said it no better..WE LOOK CLUMSY.... at least for the most part, especially when the shots don't fall..

People say MDA should have adjusted to his roster.. I don't know how much adjusting you want a coach to do without just throwing his system out the window, then what good is he..

So why don't we go get woodson a bunch of EURO players who run and have face up big man shooters who live on the perimeter, then tell him to adjust his style of coaching..You could never use that as an excuse as to why a coach is inept..Especially when he has had a lot of success in this league running his own system..

Management is suppose to supply the coach with the players that fit the system, especially when you put him thru a rebuilding process that at best, was a 3yr project..

It's been establish and proven many times, that defensive players bring a defensive culture..something MDA never had in any player before tyson chandler..We were so bad defensively, that TYSON got the DPOY award not base on stats (which it usually is) but base on the way he change the culture in NY..

I can't imagine in a MILION years that Woodson can turn DAVID LEE, AL HARRINGTON, NATE ROBINSON, CRAWFORD, GALLO into a defensive force or even adequate defenders..

MDA deserved a better opportunity and so did Walsh, although I would never ever forgive Walsh for not calling the jazz and atleast asking..I mean (at the time) there was enough drama coming out of UTAH to atleast try, but I guess he felt like it would have been a disrespect to felton to go after a pg..who the fck knows..just a foolish move on his part.

MDA definitely does not win a championship with this team.

I do think MDA could have done better with this team however, like you said, this team is still not a fit for his system so I think he would still have issues. Is that Melo's fault? Partly.

Stat was great in the system in PHX but his shooting pct was far better with Nash that it has been for both his Knicks seasons.

BTW, Shawn Marion was a monster defender.

Hard to compare coaches without the other variables as it is hard to compare players without the other variables/players.

knicks1248 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:So since you claim that the Linsanity schedule has gotten exaggerated more by the week, here we go!

Here is a breakdown of the Linsanity schedule:

Feb. 4 vs. New Jersey Nets (13-20 on road)
Feb. 6 vs. Utah Jazz (11-22 on road)
Feb. 8 at Washington (11-22 at home)
Feb. 10 vs. Los Angeles Lakers (15-18 on road)
Feb. 11 at Minnesota Timberwolves (13-20 at home)
Feb. 14 at Toronto (13-20 at home)
Feb. 15 vs. Sacramento (6-27 on road)
Feb. 17 vs. New Orleans Hornets (10-23 on road)
Feb. 19 vs. Dallas Mavericks (13-20 on road)

combined 105 wins vs 192 losses

Can it get any easier???

CASE CLOSED

That can't be right. You're claiming that those 11 teams played a combined 297 games last season.

I did not total their winning pct as a whole, that would not be an accurate assessment since it depends on if the games were at Home or Away.

I totaled up the full season winning pct for either their home or away record depending on where the game was played. How is that not fair and accurate? And, I did the same for the post Linsanity record to give it proper context.

I compared the Linsanity games to the 10 games post Linsanity (when Melo came back) until MDA left.

So, the Linsanity oppositions adjusted winning pct was .362 vs the post Linsanity oppositions adjusted winning pct of .621

Far from the same no? So who killed Linsanity? Looks like the schedule did to me.

Now that you've explained what you did, I would say it is reasonable.
Given that our opponents winning percentage was .480 for the season, you could say that the Linsanity run was a little closer to the level of opponent we'd be seeing regularly than the post-Linsanity run was, although the Linsanity run still was easier.

Well yes. .480 is closer to .350 then .350 is to .621. However, many stated that Melo killed Linsanity and I am just proving that this is completely not the case.

So lets look at the full picture:

Pre-Linsanity, the knicks had TD as the PG. Lin turned out to be a very good player and TD was not. That, and the fact that the Linsanity schedule was easy as 123 was a bit of a camouflager to what Linsanity really was. As I said, it did not prove much about the system as it proved that we needed any viable PG that was not named Toney. Let's not forget that the system was so un-adaptable to it's players that MDA allowed TD to lead the knicks by a decent margin in 3 pt attempts while shooting a whopping 25% from downtown.

MDA knows offense. But its only his offense that he is really good at executing.

And, all the blanket statements of how Melo killed Linsanity and comparing the two records is stupider than stupid.

I loved Lin and will miss him on the Knicks. I can't say that I hope he does well since he is now playing for an enemy. Did the knicks make the correct move by not bringing him back? I can't say because I am not a capologist but I did wish that they brought him back.

my question to you and the rest of the MDA bashers

If MDA comes to NY now (instead of 4 yrs ago) with an above avg pg (like a felton) you don't think he can win a championship..

we keep straying away from the real argument/conversation..

In all honesty, most coaches are going to get tuned out when losing is in the picture, doesn't matter who you are(maybe not popovich)..

I think when you have a talented team that should be winning and there not feeling your flow, there going to start ignoring you, or running plays half ass..We started hearing Amare saying this earlier in the season, he even said it at the end of last season..You know Melo was the primary culprit right..

The look on Amare's face some nights when he got the ball was like..."O sht you pass me the ball" there were times he look lost cause the plays were not being run right, guys just weren't buying in 100%.

I mean PHIL JACKSON couldn't have said it no better..WE LOOK CLUMSY.... at least for the most part, especially when the shots don't fall..

People say MDA should have adjusted to his roster.. I don't know how much adjusting you want a coach to do without just throwing his system out the window, then what good is he..

So why don't we go get woodson a bunch of EURO players who run and have face up big man shooters who live on the perimeter, then tell him to adjust his style of coaching..You could never use that as an excuse as to why a coach is inept..Especially when he has had a lot of success in this league running his own system..

Management is suppose to supply the coach with the players that fit the system, especially when you put him thru a rebuilding process that at best, was a 3yr project..

It's been establish and proven many times, that defensive players bring a defensive culture..something MDA never had in any player before tyson chandler..We were so bad defensively, that TYSON got the DPOY award not base on stats (which it usually is) but base on the way he change the culture in NY..

I can't imagine in a MILION years that Woodson can turn DAVID LEE, AL HARRINGTON, NATE ROBINSON, CRAWFORD, GALLO into a defensive force or even adequate defenders..

MDA deserved a better opportunity and so did Walsh, although I would never ever forgive Walsh for not calling the jazz and atleast asking..I mean (at the time) there was enough drama coming out of UTAH to atleast try, but I guess he felt like it would have been a disrespect to felton to go after a pg..who the fck knows..just a foolish move on his part.

Honestly I don't think MDA does what Woodson did with this team if he started coaching this year. I personally didn't like the way the team play'd even before the Melo trade. It was too inconsistent. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. They still gave up big leads to easily, made too many cruch time errors, bad defensive decisions, poor in game decisions, Never called timely time outs to re-focus his team and at some weird sub patterns...there was plenty i didn't like in MDA outside of the roster he was given.

Here is a quote I found from a Suns fan when we first hired MDA:

Suns_fan_2007 wrote:
Good luck guys with MD.

He was one stubborn SOB who was on the cusp of greatness. A good coach, but refused to play the bench, refused to adjust strategies against the competition.

We see him as a one-trick pony. And his famous line "we're not here to develop players" really did him in.

I hope he does better for you guys than he did for us out in the west.

knicks1248 wrote:you know whats really weird..MELO is now fit to play in MDA system(after playing in it all summer and having great success) and is developing into a 3 point threat..

While Amare is Finding ways to fit into Woodson system by working with the best post up player ever..

Figure that one out

Haha - I don't agree that Melo did not fit the system in general. There is nothing Melo likes more than hoisting 3's. Watching Melo in the Olympics, he spent much time in the post as well but kept deferring to Kobe who was setting up in the post behind him

CrushAlot wrote:

If MDA comes to NY now (instead of 4 yrs ago) with an above avg pg (like a felton) you don't think he can win a championship..

No I don't think so. He had the perfect roster in Phoenix and the perfect point guard and he couldn't win then. While I think management went away from a roster that could play the way he wants he struggled during his entire tenure in N Y. Hahn compared melo and mIke in an article. He said both guys were very stubborn and passive aggressive. I don't think those qualities Translate to a championship coach.

Some tough breaks(player suspensions in the playoffs, amare injuries) in phoenix is why MDA never won a championship..

Is it safe to say with the breaks that JVG had (with Ewing going down in the finals, or the PJ ward flip that got key guys suspended, when we were prime to beat the bulls) makes him a suspect coach cause he never won a championship..

Or does Riley lose all his creditabilty for allowing starks to shoot 2 for a 100 while a rolando blackmon is sitting there in a deciding nba finals game..

You need a few good breaks to win a championship..And a roster that has a core that has played in your system for at least 2 full seasons..

What championship team you know was put together in 4 months from the core to the role players..

Thats why woody has got it MADE and should have no problem coming out the gate 20-8..You have tape to look at to see what works with amare and melo, you have denver tape to see what works with melo, jr and camby, you have tape to look at from felton and amare, felton and chandler..a CHANCE TO INCORPORATE THAT IN YOUR SYSTEM.. Look at NOVAK tapes on what plays made him a huge success

These guy's all played togEther and have had success with it.. ARE YOU KIDDING ME..the one thing I don't expect this season, is CHEMISTRY ISSUES..

MDA had none of what woody has been handed to him

knicks1248 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:Nixluva,

Linsanity did not prove anything other than the fact that Lin is a good player. The schedule was awful.

The fact that he is a system guy and cannot adjust is a large blemish since many really good coaches are adaptable

Why did the Knicks hire Woody? Why did PHX want MDA to hire a defensive coach? And, who says that the defensive philosophy did not change under Woody from the beginning of the season? I though I saw a change in philosophy.

Why do keep saying the schedule was soft during the linsanity begining....vegas odds had us losing evey game other then the wizards..on paper we were worse then anyteam we faced...

There you go. We were sucking AND we were down key players. The oddsmakers had those teams feasting on the hapless knicks. The injured ones prime for a home loss.

But one man alone, a warrior with a far east heritage stood his ground with courage and it was magnificent!

Its the NBA, on any give night most teams can beat another. Teams with bad road records still feast on the weak to add wins. Sacramento still gained 6 wins on the road! Didn't Charlotte beat us early in the season?

newyorknewyork wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Coach Eric Spoelstra’s new offensive philosophy, termed the “pace and space,” is already paying dividends. When you feature two of the NBA’s best players, it only makes sense to intensify your attack and maximize offensive opportunities.

Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-28/sports/30564133_1_nba-jam-james-and-wade-video-game#ixzz23Rk4RVqE

Spoelstra is a good, smart coach, and I give him credit for tweaking the Heat’s early offense this season by incorporating a three-man pick-and-roll game on either side of the floor on semi-transition possessions when no set play has been called.

Only two other teams in the league have run such an action this season: the Knicks, when they were coached by Mike D’Antoni, and the Suns, who still run his offense.

http://www.spoelstraheat.com/tag/mike-d%E2%80%99antoni/

With Stoudemire out for Game 3 (and according to the Knicks, likely beyond that), New York is expected to spread the floor more often and play a more perimeter-oriented lineup, with Carmelo Anthony switching from small forward to power forward. That puts the onus on the Heat to stick close to the Knicks’ three-point shooters.

“That is exactly what we do,” Heat forward Chris Bosh said. “We have the speed, we have the IQ to chase those guys down.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/03/2780434/miami-heat-expects-spread-offense.html#storylink=cpy

So my assumption was correct.

Though, good data to back it up Nixluva

MDA definitely has a good offensive mind. My only issue with it was: If you don't have the horses to run your "system" then you have to be willing to switch it up. I felt that MDA would not / will not change his system based on personnel as Pat Riley has done with the Lakers, Knicks and Heat.

What has been most frustrating for me over the years and why i've defended MDA is that i've never held him out to be the best ALL AROUND NBA coach. He's a system guy, but when you hire him you KNOW that he's a system guy and what he needs to run that system. There's almost not excuse for a team to hire this man and not give him what he needs to be successful.

Over the years i've pointed out that when the Knicks actually gave him a decent PG that was able to run a PnR, push the ball, penetrate and make good passes, his offense was very successful. Felton and Lin being the best examples. There's no excuse for the fact that he's had decent PG's for less then 82 games of the nearly 4 years he was here.

People knock his defense, but that defense we saw last year WAS MDA's DEFENSE!!! Woody didn't come here with some different defensive scheme that he employed all year and after MDA left. He may have tweaked it, but the overall system was what MDA has always used. Only this time with a DPOY to anchor it and a perimeter defender like Shump to help extend it. His PHX teams were never horrible on D. They just lacked a defensive anchor to make it all work.

During Linsanity we saw what MDA could do with less talent, but a willing team, decent PG that fit what he does and a defensive group featuring Tyson, Shump & Jared. It was very successful despite a lack of shooting and depth. The thought was that Melo couldn't excel playing the way MDA wanted him to and yet we see that he did in fact excel doing that with the Olympic team and he actually did well in his 1st yr with the Knicks playing that kind of role. MDA isn't the best coach in the NBA, but he's proven that he can help teams win if you work with him rather than against him.

When we hired MDA I liked the signing, Not because I felt he would lead us to championships but because I felt he would make the team fun and entertaining and hopefuly convince Lebron to come play for the Knicks. It was clear though that after Melo was traded for and Walsh and then Billups was moved for Chandler and Woodson was brought in as a defensive coach that the writing was on the wall that MDA would either have to win big or probably wouldn't have been reupped with the Knicks anyway. It was a classy move for him stepping down rather then forcing them to fire him or collecting the remaining money on his hefty contract in a situation in which he probably wouldn't be as successfull and could end up taking a lot of the blame for.

Majority of the professionals from coaches to players in this league could be successfull if everything was taylored to them. So why does everyone need to get thrown under the bus for MDA? Especially when he himself has not made the nessesary steps to elevate to another level as a coach. The players rebelling against MDA is an exageration. They didn't have the horses to go full tilt with MDA's system. Lin was great until he got a scouting report on him. Melo and Amare were both apart of the first game that Linsanity started and rode Lin for the win vs the Nets. So when Lin when was at his best they had no problem playing off him. But by the time all 3 were able to play together again with Lin, teams were ready to play Lin and put the pressure on him and slowed him down drastically. Melo then tried to be superman putting it on his shoulders and failed. If Lin maintained his level of play that he had during Linsantiy and never got flusterd by the trap and press then Melo would have been more willing to play secondary just like he has been in the Olympics and vs the Nets. At that time though Lin wasn't ready to lead the Knicks and the ball needed to be put in Carmelo's hands until Lin matured more as a player.

+1

Q. should the Knicks be expected to defeat Miami (with Ray Allen) in a seven game series?

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:knicks1248 - how do you define "challenge"?

Q. should the Knicks be expected to defeat Miami (with Ray Allen) in a seven game series?

Expected is a loaded word! They should be competitive to the point where having a reasonable chance to win isn't an absurd thought. THIS IS THE CONTENDING TEAM! What do you think. That we should be waiting for some other roster to compete for the title? This is it!!! There won't be any other saviors! Woody has the best team he's likely to see in his career and it's tailored to him. Since they fired Walsh and gave up on building a team to fit MDA they've been building towards a team for Woody. He MUST produce with this team and challenge the Heat for the East!

Woody Ball!

nixluva wrote:You have to believe in this team cuz what else is there? In what way is this team not talented enough to compete with any team in the NBA? No team is perfect, but as teams go, this Knicks team is loaded with front line talent and the players fit the Coach. Woody is in his element and should be able to thrive with what he has. I don't see any reason to be doubtful of this teams ability to challenge the best in the league.

IMO the Knicks as a whole are greater than the sum of it's parts. It's how the parts all fit together that matters more than if you have a Lebron on your team or not. When they committed to Woody one of the things I 1st stated was that they should go all in as a defensive team. Just go find more defensive talent and fortify the teams strengths in that area. I think they did that. Adding Brewer was a very key part of that tho he's not looked at as a major cog. The more defenders you add with range has an exponential effect on the defense as a whole. It just makes Felton and Kidd that much better to have a help defender with length and range. Then behind him you have Tyson or Camby.

I like this. Truth can be so simple.

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:knicks1248 - how do you define "challenge"?

Q. should the Knicks be expected to defeat Miami (with Ray Allen) in a seven game series?

Expected is a loaded word! They should be competitive to the point where having a reasonable chance to win isn't an absurd thought. THIS IS THE CONTENDING TEAM! What do you think. That we should be waiting for some other roster to compete for the title? This is it!!! There won't be any other saviors! Woody has the best team he's likely to see in his career and it's tailored to him. Since they fired Walsh and gave up on building a team to fit MDA they've been building towards a team for Woody. He MUST produce with this team and challenge the Heat for the East!

Woody Ball!

ray allen..that guy is done for the most part..Exactly what does he do on defense at this point, we have a couple of solid perimeter defenders to manage his offensive out put

I really think we can challenge miami for the EC if where healthy..they still have no legit bigs