gunsnewing wrote:To Denver: Chandler(or Gallo push comes to shove), curry, AR, Douglas, Buike, first rounders whatever...take it or leave! Sign Melo in the summer. If Melo signs elsewhere. Let this team grow together and go after another elite player. Lets face it Melo isn't Kobe or Lebron even. He is one dimensional. I would definitely not gut this team to get him. I'd gut it for A younger Kobe, lebron and wade though

Papabear Says

gut the team. The hold up will be D'Antoni's refusal to give up Gallo. If we loose Mello heads will role. Mello brings every day and Gallo and Chandler brings sometimes. Get Carmelo Now! Then fire D'Antoni.

OldFan wrote:TMS - I'm not even sure what you're arguing.

We're getting back two starters in one post. We're buying out Billups in another because he's over payed.

There is no chance of signing Howard. But we're counting on signing CP3 or D. Williams.

The original article specifies Felton, Gallo, Starter, Curry, draft pick.

I think that means Felton, Gallo, Fields, Cap Space and AR (for Pick).

If you sign Chandler, in two years you're at 45-50 mil for Amare, Melo and Chandler. If you renounce everyone else on the team still don't see how you make another big signing.

Melo and Amare are both excellent offense players and weak defensively - they don't add up to a championship without significant help. You're traded away most of your potential and your cap space.
Are you better? Probably.
Are you a contender? No.
Do you have the assets and cap space or draft picks to become a contender? Probably not.

I agree with this point of view. By not including Chandler it costs us more in the long run because we still have to get rid of him in order to accomplish our goal. I am in no way going all in for Melo when we still have glaring holes at C and backup PG.

I WOULD be all in if we get Nene back. And by all in I would include just about all tradeable assets.

Another thing with this 3rd superstar thing that I think has been brought up before the Miami Spiceboys each took a paycut to play together...around $5 mil less then max each. Noone is doing that with us. Melo wants Max. Amare got Max. So it would be almost impossible to field solid team.

I would be happy with a top 2. Keep Felton and you keep up with Miami by having better depth.

gunsnewing wrote:To Denver: Chandler(or Gallo push comes to shove), curry, AR, Douglas, Buike, first rounders whatever...take it or leave! Sign Melo in the summer. If Melo signs elsewhere. Let this team grow together and go after another elite player. Lets face it Melo isn't Kobe or Lebron even. He is one dimensional. I would definitely not gut this team to get him. I'd gut it for A younger Kobe, lebron and wade though

So for three years in a row, we are going to wrap hope around a wish and jump into the D Howard sweepsteaks when I havent seen any indication that he leaves Orlando except for some bored writer....When does this end?

OldFan wrote:TMS - I'm not even sure what you're arguing.

We're getting back two starters in one post. We're buying out Billups in another because he's over payed.

There is no chance of signing Howard. But we're counting on signing CP3 or D. Williams.

i said we have the option of buying out Billups next year his contract has that clause built in... we could also hold onto him & let his contract come off the books in time for 2012 when CP3 or Deron become FA's... i never said i had any idea if we'll be able to sign those guys, we have no idea what the new CBA will even entail, just that it's a more likely scenario to get those guys than it is Dwight Howard... why the hell is he coming to the Knicks to share the frontcourt with Amare Stoudemire when he could easily push his way to the Lakers & play with Kobe Bryant? as for holding onto our cap space, do u think Orlando is stupid enough to let him get away w/o getting a trade done? so u wanna hold onto cap space til the end of next season & sacrifice this year & next just so we have enough cap space to maybe target Dwight who u don't even know will want to opt out to begin with? that sounds like an awesome plan to me.

The original article specifies Felton, Gallo, Starter, Curry, draft pick.

I think that means Felton, Gallo, Fields, Cap Space and AR (for Pick).

If you sign Chandler, in two years you're at 45-50 mil for Amare, Melo and Chandler. If you renounce everyone else on the team still don't see how you make another big signing.

i think that means Felton, Gallo, someone out of Wilson, Fields OR Mozgov, Cap Space & draft pick... if they were demanding Fields then his name would have been mentioned... "a draft pick" is vague, we can easily buy a 1st rd draft pick with cash, why are u automatically assuming AR needs to be involved?... i think moving Wilson & Gallo makes the most sense in this scenario, we get to hold onto Fields, AR & Mozgov which leaves us with enough young assets to hopefully make another deal down the road to fill other needs if we have to... in the meantime we have low cost talent to fill roles on the team... both Wilson & Gallo will command big dollars this summer & next, which is why u include those guys instead of Fields.

Melo and Amare are both excellent offense players and weak defensively - they don't add up to a championship without significant help. You're traded away most of your potential and your cap space.
Are you better? Probably.
Are you a contender? No.
Do you have the assets and cap space or draft picks to become a contender? Probably not.

as opposed to what? your plan which is to do nothing at all & hope Melo signs with us this summer for nothing while renouncing Wilson... & what happens if u can't sign Melo as a FA? what's your contingency plan? go after Nene or Marc Gasol? are either of those guys making us a contender? i don't think so, not even close... Melo will have a much bigger positive impact on our team than limited talent guys like that IMO... & if you sign up guys like that then forget about having any flexibility to target CP3 or Deron much less Dwight in 2012... i'm sick of the waiting around crap, it's been long enough... we have Amare for 5 years i don't wanna watch him break down trying to carry a bunch of role players for another year & a half while we hope to sign another savior in 2013... we have the opportunity to acquire the most talented scorer in the NBA & still hold onto a couple of our young pieces, we'd be fools to pass that up.

"I don't care what the cap comes in at, (The Knicks) can get (Carmelo Anthony)," one rival executive said. "I've done the math a million times."

(start) The Knicks have $44 million in salary committed for 2011-12, and that includes $8 million to $10 million in non-expiring contracts that would be going to Denver in an Anthony trade. It also includes Anthony Randolph ($2.9 million), who either will be going to Denver or Minnesota in the next week. If the Knicks get Anthony in an extend-and-trade before June 30, cap space for him is a non-issue; Anthony's $18.5 million salary for next season would kick in. The issue would be having flexibility to put more pieces around Anthony and Amar'e Stoudemire -- which is yet another item the short-sighted Melo-now crowd ignores.

Which brings us to another fallacy in the Melo-mania that has engulfed New York. There are those blabbing on the radio, scribbling in print, and yakking away in taxicabs all over the city who believe the Knicks would be a championship-caliber team simply by pairing Anthony with Stoudemire -- regardless of how many players they had to give up. These people are beyond hope. Unfortunately for Walsh, Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan may be one of them.

In the meantime, Walsh gazes in amazement at the alternate reality around him, while the Nuggets continue to live in their own.

- Ken Berger

Patience

TMS I answered your question. You asked what would be giving up the farm and I explained what I thought was giving up the farm. Later rumors have Denver asking for even more. I don't think they're taking Chandler, a guy who they're going to have to make an investment in to hold past this year.

You can easily buy a first round pick? I don't think you can easily buy a first round pick that Denver would want. Walsh is the one saying he can trade AR for a pick. I don't recall Walsh or anyone else suggesting the Knicks can easily buy a first round pick to include in this trade.

Either Billups is worth paying 13 mil or he isn't. In my mind he isn't so you're getting one starter for three.

Please explain how you sign Melo and have any chance of signing CP3 or D Williams? We won't have the cap space. Don't even know if we could do it with the current CBA.

To me Amare + Melo with scrubs around them isn't close. Unless we have a way to get better from there it's a dead end.

In that case - Yes - I'll keep my options open.

If we sign Melo I'm sure I'll enjoy watching him and hope we can build around him (though I obviously have my doubts). If we don't I'll be happy to watch the team we've got.

it doesn't matter what DEN asks for it only matters what they can convince us to give up... giving up Fields & Gallo is probably the most contentious package in most people's minds but if u ask me that's not what i call giving up the farm if u can keep Wilson, AR & Mozgov either... i don't really think DEN is asking for too much either we're talking about Carmelo Anthony here not Zach Randolph, not David Lee, not Gilbert Arenas, not Marc Gasol or any other 2nd & 3rd tier talent, but that's DW's call i'm sure he's gonna wait it out til the deadline & see if their demands come down a bit... i DO hope a deal will get done either way, there's just way too many variables at play to wait til this summer.

& yes, we can easily buy a 1st rounder, we've done it before that's how we got Toney Douglas pretty much, teams do it all the time, Phoenix has sold their 1st round picks a couple times in recent memory so have other teams... Minny's picks are all protected picks anyway even if we do trade AR... Walsh has also suggested he could probably get multiple 1st round picks if he had to, which leads me to believe he has other means to get one other than trading AR.

what this really boils down to for me is you simply don't want Melo on this team, because whether we trade for him now or sign him via free agency, we're still not going to have any flexibility to make other moves using the cap.

TMS wrote:as for how this trade helps us get CP3, IMO we're more likely to get him on a S&T deal than in free agency regardless if we make the trade or sign Melo this summer anyway... having Billups' $13M expiring to use along w/the assets we get to hold onto in this Melo deal might be a starting point to negotiate a trade w/the Hornets... let's say we include Fields, AR, a draft pick & Billups' expiring in 2012 to land CP3 assuming those players will show some growth in their games between now & then is it out of the question that the Hornets wouldn't accept that package faced with the same threat Denver is faced with right now of CP3 walking for nothing in free agency the following summer? but then we're probably having this same argument next summer about not wanting to "gut the roster" to get CP3, right?

No - no more arguments. I'll just wait and see what happens. I'll enjoy watching them either way.

Denver's asking price for Carmelo Anthony is more outlandish than previously thought.

The Post has learned the Nuggets made a whopping demand one week ago that is more exorbitant than recent reports. According to a league source debriefed on Carmelo Anthony negotiations, Denver asked for Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Landry Fields, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov and a first-round pick (obtained via Anthony Randolph) for Anthony and point guard Chauncey Billups.

babyKnicks wrote:Source: Nuggets want 5 Knicks and 1st-round pick in Anthony deal

Denver's asking price for Carmelo Anthony is more outlandish than previously thought.

The Post has learned the Nuggets made a whopping demand one week ago that is more exorbitant than recent reports. According to a league source debriefed on Carmelo Anthony negotiations, Denver asked for Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, Landry Fields, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov and a first-round pick (obtained via Anthony Randolph) for Anthony and point guard Chauncey Billups.

F that man...I'm not giving up all that, not sure Carmelo would expect us to either..F it --- I guess it's not meant to be...If we're forced to walk away from this, first order of business is to get the message through to Melo (Amar'e?) that they were being completely unreasonable with their demands..Then go from there..Hopefully he really will be an option for us in the offseason..Goddamn this rotten CBA situation, I swear...What terrible timing for us...

F the players association AND the owners man (esp. the owners)...Something like this (the new CBA) should've been hashed out already..I mean WTF, this is a huge time in Carmelo's life -- how the F is the man supposed to make the right decision for him and his family with all this uncertainty?? It's mind-boggling..At least part of the rules should be in place already, such as pending FAs or franchise players being grandfathered into the old contract..This dude has earned the right to sign the same exact deal Amar'e signed with us during the offseason. End of story...Franchise type talent with 8 years of service in the league counting this year..You mean to tell me that's not gonna count for anything?!?! Rediculous..