tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

tkf wrote:

Vmart wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TheSage wrote:Curry, Chandler, Randoph and Walker for Carmelo works and is reasonable for Melo. Walker and Randolph still have the upside potential but really dont think Denver accepts at this point-maybe closer to trade deadline and probably better package than Nets can offer and still keep a semblemce of a s team. Only core player we are giving up is Chandler and Denver gets the upside with Randolph and Walker and the 1st rounder. Fair deal.

how about Gallo, Chandler, Fields, Curry and Mosgov for Melo, Balkman and JR Smith? First we have to trade Turiaf for late first rounder to include.

You guys are cracking me up.

One hand says Melo is a star and instantly puts us with the elite team. The other hand then says it wont cost you that much to trade for him.

Which is it? If he's a star he's going to command a star's ransom, which is blue chip prospects, salary relief and pick(s). If he's not going to cost a superstar's price why are trading for a scorer? Seems to be we are scsoring pretty good. Is Melo helping us rebound? Is Melo going to create more easy shots for our players? Is Melo going to defend the post?

Or we could trade for Melo and call it a day. IF you think whats happening in Miami isnt relevent your in denial. Melo needs 20+ shots a game to impact your W/L.

Fish, one minute you are telling people how overrated Melo is and the next your saying he worth all these Knicks players. Which one is it? I think you want Melo on the team as bad as the everyone that is on the Melo to NY bandwagon.

what I'm talking about is Melo's percieved value, which is something I want no part of. Melo is a guy who thinks he's Kobe/Lebron, and his team is going to ask for a package that indicates he's a Kobe/Lebron and I was ZERO part of that.

The only thing I really like about Melo is that he wants to come here.

My comments were about you bandwagon guys who on one hand say Melo is a star, but on the other hand it wont decimate our roster to get him. You cant have it both ways. If he's not going to be that pricey, its because he's not as good as you think. Therefore I would rather keep our depth of Fields/Gallo/Chander who are showing that any one of them can score 20+ a night.

So NO. I dont want Melo on this team. You overrate his value on the court and underate what it will take to get him.

Fish- I agree with you- but we might be able to get him cheaply if Walsh plays his cards right and there is no demand from other teams. There is the potential that we have leverage to get him for little more than what we'd have to give up during the summer.

Now, whether that is likely to happen- I suspect not.

If thats the case then fine... Melo would be the 2nd best player on our roster, no doubt.

Whats the deal? Would it be Curry/Chandler/Fields + a pick for Melo/Balkman? How could Denver ask for less?

I'm not sure Gallo and Chandler will be stars but they are both really good players.

I just dont see Melo as the super elusive star we covet en route to a title. Not at all. We will go deeper in the playoffs with size, skill and defense like Det did rather than living and dying with Melo's scoring in the playoffs.

I don't offer Denver anything more than what we have to give up in the off season- which I think is Curry & Chandler if we are signing him outright. Take it or leave it - maybe add in a 2nd rounder.

Now- Denver might be asking more- will they get it? They actually could lose him for nothing. Yes, its Chandler for Melo in a way, and no, that's not fair- but he is a good, 2 way player- young and they can see for themselves if they can win with him vs. Melo.

But I don't think I even want melo at that price. Rather keep Chandler at a reasonable price.

The trick is to get rid of Gallo the dude is to inconsistent with his shooting. Rather keep Chandler. At least he has an all around game and seems to fit MDA system better than Gallo. I personally think that the deal to be made will be Gallo/AR and fillers nothing more. After all they could lose Melo for nothing in FA. The reason I would shoot for a trade is so Melo comes in with an extension on his contract and this allows the Knicks to retain Chandler with his bird rights.

And your proof of this is where?

Do you need proof of a player who basically plays all positions in the system and produces on a night in and night out basis. Chandler is the better player its not even close. If Gallo's inconsistent jumper isn't falling you can pretty much put a guard on him and take him out of the equation. You put a guard on Chandler he is gonna punish that guard by taking him down low. Gallo doesn't do that he will hang and jack up threes. He just doesn't get it. He forget the formula of success. You think Gallo has it figured out and then he for some reason he abandons what brought him success.

the strength is having both of them, not one over another. Gallo is useless without his jumper? Really? Didnt we just see him average 10 FTs a game over a 5 game stretch where his jumper wasnt falling. You look at the game logs side by side and its clear that when one gets favorable production the other gets less. If you didnt watch the games you would think they are taking shots, etc from each other. Watching the games you see... one of them has a weaker defensive player on them and that guy goes off.

Thats what the depth buys you.

Gallo has scored 20+ 7 times. Chandler 8 times, but they have only done it twice together. That tells me that most nights teams can handle one, but not both.

THATS HUGE

Every "we dont need Melo" arguement I have ever made revolves around this. You can take Gallo out of the game. You can take Chandler out of the game. Taking both out? Not likely to happen.

Pistons PROVED you can beat stars with depth and size.

My god, if we could ever develop Mosgov/AR into solid players, especially on defense and Chandler/Gallo continue to get better your top shelf scoring core guys are Amare/Felton/Gallo/Chandler supported by Douglas/Fields/Mosgov/AR.

Thats an 8 deep rotation of size, skill and defense. All 8 guys defend and rebound are big (or play big).

The reason the Heat stink is they cant survive a bad shooting night from LBJ or Wade, because the rest of them SUCK.

We can build something big. Let it cook

Fantastic post.. I am going to end this thread for me with that.. if you don't mind, I would love to paste this post on another site... best post on this topic I have read yet..

Everyone pro Melo makes this about Melo being better than Chandler or Gallo. Duh.. We all know Melo is the better player. Gallo and Chandler arent role players. I see them as top end rotation guys. Maybe not stars but big players who can come up big and will.

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks are still looking to finish gelling as new teammates and they are still ranked as one of the best offensive teams out there... and we want to add an offensive-only guy?

Knicks do indeed need a closer and someone who can break down a man and score at will, but it's their defense that needs improving.

Gimme Marc Gasol type for the $$$ that we can spend.

Marc Gasol?

He is good but I dont think he makes us contenders.

I have to admit that I haven't watched him much and can only "read" what I see in his stats.

He is a big dude and can give you a legit 30+ minutes a night. Knows the Euro passing game and prob compliments Amare. Rebounds, defends and isn't afraid to mix it up.

It would push a dude like Turiaf to Knicks bench and make him the leader of that group.

Potent for Knicks.

Gasol is a very nice C, but he would clog up the lane for Amare... as we saw w/Shaq in previous years, Amare is not at his best operating with a big C that also works in the post... Amare is better suited playing alongside a guy that doesn't command touches inside & works well off the ball.

misterearl wrote:The Answer Man Channels The Head Coach of The San Francisco 49ers

"We cannot make decisions that cost the team, and then come off the sideline and it's nonchalant. No. ... I'd rather play with 10 (yoots) and just get penalized all the way until we have to do something else rather than play with (Carmelo) when I know that right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team.

Cannot play with 'em

cannot win with 'em

cannot coach with 'em

Can't do it

I want winners!"

- Mike Singletary

I can't believe you are quoting that loser.

fishmike wrote:we need a legit center.. its really the last piece. I would like a playmaking wing and shooter like OJ Mayo as well, but thats a costly aquisition.

Our best bet for a good bigman is probably developing one outselves. Really one of the keys to this project is developing AR and or Mosgov.

I tell you one of the things that I am looking forward to after this coming summer: the evolution of Landry Fields.

Dude came into camp in incredible shape cause he knows how to spend time during the summer. I humbly predict that he will be lights out shooting the ball next year. Easy call. And he is a passer/ball mover already.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks are still looking to finish gelling as new teammates and they are still ranked as one of the best offensive teams out there... and we want to add an offensive-only guy?

Knicks do indeed need a closer and someone who can break down a man and score at will, but it's their defense that needs improving.

Gimme Marc Gasol type for the $$$ that we can spend.

Marc Gasol?

He is good but I dont think he makes us contenders.

I have to admit that I haven't watched him much and can only "read" what I see in his stats.

He is a big dude and can give you a legit 30+ minutes a night. Knows the Euro passing game and prob compliments Amare. Rebounds, defends and isn't afraid to mix it up.

It would push a dude like Turiaf to Knicks bench and make him the leader of that group.

Potent for Knicks.

Gasol is a very nice C, but he would clog up the lane for Amare... as we saw w/Shaq in previous years, Amare is not at his best operating with a big C that also works in the post... Amare is better suited playing alongside a guy that doesn't command touches inside & works well off the ball.

why would he clog the middle for Amare? Is he clogging the middle for Zach?

did u watch Amare playing with Shaq in Phoenix? he didn't have room to work his pick & roll game nearly as effectively... MDA has gone on record saying Amare needs his spacing to be effective in the PnR... Marc Gasol also likes to work in the PnR... it is my opinion that a better complement to Amare's game would be someone who operates off the ball & does the dirty work downlow... someone like a Marcus Camby or even an Anderson Varejao would be a nice addition if u could add a perimeter scoring threat like Melo to complement Amare's game.

Zach Randolph operates in the same type of space that Amare does but is more of a back-to-the-basket player. Does Gasol clog the paint for Zach?

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

martin wrote:Knicks are still looking to finish gelling as new teammates and they are still ranked as one of the best offensive teams out there... and we want to add an offensive-only guy?

Knicks do indeed need a closer and someone who can break down a man and score at will, but it's their defense that needs improving.

Gimme Marc Gasol type for the $$$ that we can spend.

Marc Gasol?

He is good but I dont think he makes us contenders.

I have to admit that I haven't watched him much and can only "read" what I see in his stats.

He is a big dude and can give you a legit 30+ minutes a night. Knows the Euro passing game and prob compliments Amare. Rebounds, defends and isn't afraid to mix it up.

It would push a dude like Turiaf to Knicks bench and make him the leader of that group.

Potent for Knicks.

Gasol is a very nice C, but he would clog up the lane for Amare... as we saw w/Shaq in previous years, Amare is not at his best operating with a big C that also works in the post... Amare is better suited playing alongside a guy that doesn't command touches inside & works well off the ball.

why would he clog the middle for Amare? Is he clogging the middle for Zach?

did u watch Amare playing with Shaq in Phoenix? he didn't have room to work his pick & roll game nearly as effectively... MDA has gone on record saying Amare needs his spacing to be effective in the PnR... Marc Gasol also likes to work in the PnR... it is my opinion that a better complement to Amare's game would be someone who operates off the ball & does the dirty work downlow... someone like a Marcus Camby or even an Anderson Varejao would be a nice addition if u could add a perimeter scoring threat like Melo to complement Amare's game.

Zach Randolph operates in the same type of space that Amare does but is more of a back-to-the-basket player. Does Gasol clog the paint for Zach?

they clear out for the other to operate... they both put up numbers but i don't see how their team benefits to their max potential because of it... right now they are 2 games under .500... last year they won 40 games with that tandem up front... i think both players would be better served to have players that operate away from the low post to make the most of their invididual talents... i felt the same way about Zach when we traded for him to begin with while some of you guys thought having him next to Eddy Curry would benefit our team by having 2 dominant low post players downlow.

i don't think it's an ideal plan to have Gasol, a guy who works in the low post, to be matched up next to Amare in this offense... it is my opinion that a guy who works off the ball like i previously stated would make a better fit.

now how about u answer my question... did u watch Amare playing with Shaq in Phoenix & did you think he was at his best with a big C playing alongside him in the paint that demanded touches in the low post?

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:now how about u answer my question... did u watch Amare playing with Shaq in Phoenix & did you think he was at his best with a big C playing alongside him in the paint that demanded touches in the low post?

Shaq didn't work in PHO for a lot of reasons. He sucked at PnR defense, he is plodding, is not a spot up shooter at 15' facing the basket, and is only most effective as a low post guy who demands the ball (while other players clear out). Those thing negated the effectiveness of the team and Amare.

I wouldn't describe MGasol that way. Insofar as a I know, he can play off the ball and has a face-up game. He is big and rugged and yet can still get up and down the court, which fills the middle position for the Knicks. Not too many players out there like that.

i personally think having an outside scoring threat like Melo along w/Felton orchestrating & an athletic C that can work off the ball would be the ideal scenario right now short of somehow pilfering CP3 from the Hornets, which obviously isn't a likely scenario... Gasol is a very nice player, i wouldn't be unhappy if we got him, but i would prefer other options.

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:now how about u answer my question... did u watch Amare playing with Shaq in Phoenix & did you think he was at his best with a big C playing alongside him in the paint that demanded touches in the low post?

Shaq didn't work in PHO for a lot of reasons. He sucked at PnR defense, he is plodding, is not a spot up shooter at 15' facing the basket, and is only most effective as a low post guy who demands the ball (while other players clear out). Those thing negated the effectiveness of the team and Amare.

I wouldn't describe MGasol that way. Insofar as a I know, he can play off the ball and has a face-up game. He is big and rugged and yet can still get up and down the court, which fills the middle position for the Knicks. Not too many players out there like that.

i personally think having an outside scoring threat like Melo along w/Felton orchestrating & an athletic C that can work off the ball would be the ideal scenario right now short of somehow pilfering CP3 from the Hornets, which obviously isn't a likely scenario... Gasol is a very nice player, i wouldn't be unhappy if we got him, but i would prefer other options.

The Knicks weaknesses are not on offensive side of ball. Why would you want to add Melo who is an O-only type of player?

They are deficient in rebounding and defense.

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:we need a legit center.. its really the last piece. I would like a playmaking wing and shooter like OJ Mayo as well, but thats a costly aquisition.

Our best bet for a good bigman is probably developing one outselves. Really one of the keys to this project is developing AR and or Mosgov.

I tell you one of the things that I am looking forward to after this coming summer: the evolution of Landry Fields.

Dude came into camp in incredible shape cause he knows how to spend time during the summer. I humbly predict that he will be lights out shooting the ball next year. Easy call. And he is a passer/ball mover already.

martin wrote:

cheers wrote:gallo would need to show consistency with his game inside the arc to even sniff a maybe melo for gallo.

the trade is one of bargaining leverage not talent for talent.

Wouldn’t denver have to do a lot of diligence to make sure gallo wouldn’t just return to italy after his contract is up rather than re-sign in denver? could they do that without tampering? can gallo sign an extension this year to go beyond his contract of next year?