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ESPN: Carmelo Anthony trade talks heat up (Melo to Nets talk here)
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martin
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9/26/2010  3:59 PM
Knixkik wrote:I agree it won't be easy to fill a roster on only 10mil. But this is how teams are being built. Miami is making it happen why can't we? Of course it is in our best interest in this case to keep Douglas and mozgov, trade chandler for a young shooter, and get someone in the draft who can immediately contribute. Or maybe deal the pick for someone like fernandez or whoever is available. Then you just need to find a couple cheap vets and we should be in good shape. Or why not just resign Chandler, buike, Douglas, and mozgov, and be over the cap and either make due for a year and let everyone expire or use the mid level for a good player or two. This is what I mean by there being flexibility because I still think there will be a lot of options.

For the most part you are almost conceding that Knicks will never be on the same level as Miami. LeBron >> Melo. Amare only a bit better than Bosh? Who matches Wade?

What about all those other questions I ask? Defense? How does Melo compliment Amare's game? etc.

The one point that hardly anyone brings up when they are willing to take on Melo is that he is a a guy who can create his own shot 100% better than Gallo or AR, and you need that at the end of games; and in the same vein, he has enough star power to draw a foul when creating that shot. That's the one big point about Melo that would make me immediately attracted to him.

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Knixkik
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9/26/2010  4:23 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I agree it won't be easy to fill a roster on only 10mil. But this is how teams are being built. Miami is making it happen why can't we? Of course it is in our best interest in this case to keep Douglas and mozgov, trade chandler for a young shooter, and get someone in the draft who can immediately contribute. Or maybe deal the pick for someone like fernandez or whoever is available. Then you just need to find a couple cheap vets and we should be in good shape. Or why not just resign Chandler, buike, Douglas, and mozgov, and be over the cap and either make due for a year and let everyone expire or use the mid level for a good player or two. This is what I mean by there being flexibility because I still think there will be a lot of options.

For the most part you are almost conceding that Knicks will never be on the same level as Miami. LeBron >> Melo. Amare only a bit better than Bosh? Who matches Wade?

What about all those other questions I ask? Defense? How does Melo compliment Amare's game? etc.

The one point that hardly anyone brings up when they are willing to take on Melo is that he is a a guy who can create his own shot 100% better than Gallo or AR, and you need that at the end of games; and in the same vein, he has enough star power to draw a foul when creating that shot. That's the one big point about Melo that would make me immediately attracted to him.


You're right all these questions can't really be answered but that's why i'm still on the fence about the whole thing. But i'll ask you back;

What are the other options to build a championship team? as constructed this team does not have championship potential with Amare in his prime.

Who is a better star player we can get? I understand Parker is a nice alternative but everyone pretty much shot me down on that one.

Someone needs to supply me a better option to putting together a deep playoff team. This team is at best a 5th seed, which is great, but the options to get any better are dwindling. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If this isn't that chance then i'm fine with that. All i ask is someone give me a better option to building a championship team. And don't say "be patient." We have been terrible for the last 9 years and just signed a 100 mil man who's about to be 28. He's worth every penny if we do this right, but the last thing we need to do is be patient.
MattSuspect
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9/26/2010  5:20 PM
I DO NOT WANT MELO IN A TRADE.

What the hell has this guy done with a better supporting cast in Denver than we will ever be able to give him if we trade our only decent guys and draft picks. I DO NOT WANT MELO IN A TRADE. It's absurd that this is still debatable. This isn't fantasy league. Stats don't just move over and make this team a winner. Uggg. I'm done with this team if we trade for him. (Unless of course I'm wrong, and we get to the playoffs )
TheSage
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9/26/2010  6:02 PM
I guess I am one the few here with less knowledge of bball players than either DW or D'A or at least one of the few who acknowledge their greater experience and knowledge. from my standpoint, I would not like to see Gallo AND AR go in a trade either is fine and preferably Chandler then AR as an alternative (Gallo has shown more on a consistent basis and his numbers compare favorably with the first two years of Nowitzki, TD is nice and but we have to give up something, Curry requires no comment and a draft choice is a no brainer, With the foregoing said I would go for it IF it is available, even if we have to throw in Azi.

If there is no deal then we sit back and watch how AR, Gallo, TD and AZI mature and if one or more develope into what we hope.
martin
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9/26/2010  6:54 PM
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I agree it won't be easy to fill a roster on only 10mil. But this is how teams are being built. Miami is making it happen why can't we? Of course it is in our best interest in this case to keep Douglas and mozgov, trade chandler for a young shooter, and get someone in the draft who can immediately contribute. Or maybe deal the pick for someone like fernandez or whoever is available. Then you just need to find a couple cheap vets and we should be in good shape. Or why not just resign Chandler, buike, Douglas, and mozgov, and be over the cap and either make due for a year and let everyone expire or use the mid level for a good player or two. This is what I mean by there being flexibility because I still think there will be a lot of options.

For the most part you are almost conceding that Knicks will never be on the same level as Miami. LeBron >> Melo. Amare only a bit better than Bosh? Who matches Wade?

What about all those other questions I ask? Defense? How does Melo compliment Amare's game? etc.

The one point that hardly anyone brings up when they are willing to take on Melo is that he is a a guy who can create his own shot 100% better than Gallo or AR, and you need that at the end of games; and in the same vein, he has enough star power to draw a foul when creating that shot. That's the one big point about Melo that would make me immediately attracted to him.


You're right all these questions can't really be answered but that's why i'm still on the fence about the whole thing. But i'll ask you back;

What are the other options to build a championship team? as constructed this team does not have championship potential with Amare in his prime.

Who is a better star player we can get? I understand Parker is a nice alternative but everyone pretty much shot me down on that one.

Someone needs to supply me a better option to putting together a deep playoff team. This team is at best a 5th seed, which is great, but the options to get any better are dwindling. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If this isn't that chance then i'm fine with that. All i ask is someone give me a better option to building a championship team. And don't say "be patient." We have been terrible for the last 9 years and just signed a 100 mil man who's about to be 28. He's worth every penny if we do this right, but the last thing we need to do is be patient.

Tim Duncan was lucky that he came into the league with Dave Robinson. And after Dave retired the Spurs were also lucky enough to have internal development with Tony Parker and Manu to continue the Championship pedigree.

Knicks are in a position to have internal development (AR, Gallo, Chandler, Moz) AND add a major piece because Donnie managed the cap so well. If you keep the young core of Douglas, AR, Gallo, Chandler, Moz together, you can argue that you have youth, athleticism, length and 2-way players. Are there any budding all-stars? Don't know, but you certainly can't argue that there is good gobs of opportunity.

And if you don't give up AR/Gallo, you must target a PG/SG that is a major upgrade over what the Knicks currently have with the capspace that is available over the next 2 years (we shall assume that C/PF/SF are good to go with Moz, Amare, Gallo, AR). Here is a list: OJ Mayo (RFA), CP3 (UFA), Deron Williams (UFA), Melo (UFA).

I am not buying that we "waste" Amare's good years if we don't get Melo right now, because, in fact, it would take just as much time to add other pieces to a combo of Melo/Amare (assuming a loss of 2014, AR/Gallo) before we could come up with anything better than Miami.

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Moonangie
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9/26/2010  7:13 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I agree it won't be easy to fill a roster on only 10mil. But this is how teams are being built. Miami is making it happen why can't we? Of course it is in our best interest in this case to keep Douglas and mozgov, trade chandler for a young shooter, and get someone in the draft who can immediately contribute. Or maybe deal the pick for someone like fernandez or whoever is available. Then you just need to find a couple cheap vets and we should be in good shape. Or why not just resign Chandler, buike, Douglas, and mozgov, and be over the cap and either make due for a year and let everyone expire or use the mid level for a good player or two. This is what I mean by there being flexibility because I still think there will be a lot of options.

For the most part you are almost conceding that Knicks will never be on the same level as Miami. LeBron >> Melo. Amare only a bit better than Bosh? Who matches Wade?

What about all those other questions I ask? Defense? How does Melo compliment Amare's game? etc.

The one point that hardly anyone brings up when they are willing to take on Melo is that he is a a guy who can create his own shot 100% better than Gallo or AR, and you need that at the end of games; and in the same vein, he has enough star power to draw a foul when creating that shot. That's the one big point about Melo that would make me immediately attracted to him.

Et tu, Martin? Please keep your thinking in order. We NEED a solid core, not two guys. Miami are deluding themselves if they think they got chip material there. Riley has so many egos, it's not fathomable that they all get along for years.
Moonangie
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9/26/2010  7:15 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I agree it won't be easy to fill a roster on only 10mil. But this is how teams are being built. Miami is making it happen why can't we? Of course it is in our best interest in this case to keep Douglas and mozgov, trade chandler for a young shooter, and get someone in the draft who can immediately contribute. Or maybe deal the pick for someone like fernandez or whoever is available. Then you just need to find a couple cheap vets and we should be in good shape. Or why not just resign Chandler, buike, Douglas, and mozgov, and be over the cap and either make due for a year and let everyone expire or use the mid level for a good player or two. This is what I mean by there being flexibility because I still think there will be a lot of options.

For the most part you are almost conceding that Knicks will never be on the same level as Miami. LeBron >> Melo. Amare only a bit better than Bosh? Who matches Wade?

What about all those other questions I ask? Defense? How does Melo compliment Amare's game? etc.

The one point that hardly anyone brings up when they are willing to take on Melo is that he is a a guy who can create his own shot 100% better than Gallo or AR, and you need that at the end of games; and in the same vein, he has enough star power to draw a foul when creating that shot. That's the one big point about Melo that would make me immediately attracted to him.


You're right all these questions can't really be answered but that's why i'm still on the fence about the whole thing. But i'll ask you back;

What are the other options to build a championship team? as constructed this team does not have championship potential with Amare in his prime.

Who is a better star player we can get? I understand Parker is a nice alternative but everyone pretty much shot me down on that one.

Someone needs to supply me a better option to putting together a deep playoff team. This team is at best a 5th seed, which is great, but the options to get any better are dwindling. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If this isn't that chance then i'm fine with that. All i ask is someone give me a better option to building a championship team. And don't say "be patient." We have been terrible for the last 9 years and just signed a 100 mil man who's about to be 28. He's worth every penny if we do this right, but the last thing we need to do is be patient.

Tim Duncan was lucky that he came into the league with Dave Robinson. And after Dave retired the Spurs were also lucky enough to have internal development with Tony Parker and Manu to continue the Championship pedigree.

Knicks are in a position to have internal development (AR, Gallo, Chandler, Moz) AND add a major piece because Donnie managed the cap so well. If you keep the young core of Douglas, AR, Gallo, Chandler, Moz together, you can argue that you have youth, athleticism, length and 2-way players. Are there any budding all-stars? Don't know, but you certainly can't argue that there is good gobs of opportunity.

And if you don't give up AR/Gallo, you must target a PG/SG that is a major upgrade over what the Knicks currently have with the capspace that is available over the next 2 years (we shall assume that C/PF/SF are good to go with Moz, Amare, Gallo, AR). Here is a list: OJ Mayo (RFA), CP3 (UFA), Deron Williams (UFA), Melo (UFA).

I am not buying that we "waste" Amare's good years if we don't get Melo right now, because, in fact, it would take just as much time to add other pieces to a combo of Melo/Amare (assuming a loss of 2014, AR/Gallo) before we could come up with anything better than Miami.

Ok, guess I was too quick to judge. Glad to see you got everything straight now =P
Knixkik
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9/26/2010  10:34 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I agree it won't be easy to fill a roster on only 10mil. But this is how teams are being built. Miami is making it happen why can't we? Of course it is in our best interest in this case to keep Douglas and mozgov, trade chandler for a young shooter, and get someone in the draft who can immediately contribute. Or maybe deal the pick for someone like fernandez or whoever is available. Then you just need to find a couple cheap vets and we should be in good shape. Or why not just resign Chandler, buike, Douglas, and mozgov, and be over the cap and either make due for a year and let everyone expire or use the mid level for a good player or two. This is what I mean by there being flexibility because I still think there will be a lot of options.

For the most part you are almost conceding that Knicks will never be on the same level as Miami. LeBron >> Melo. Amare only a bit better than Bosh? Who matches Wade?

What about all those other questions I ask? Defense? How does Melo compliment Amare's game? etc.

The one point that hardly anyone brings up when they are willing to take on Melo is that he is a a guy who can create his own shot 100% better than Gallo or AR, and you need that at the end of games; and in the same vein, he has enough star power to draw a foul when creating that shot. That's the one big point about Melo that would make me immediately attracted to him.


You're right all these questions can't really be answered but that's why i'm still on the fence about the whole thing. But i'll ask you back;

What are the other options to build a championship team? as constructed this team does not have championship potential with Amare in his prime.

Who is a better star player we can get? I understand Parker is a nice alternative but everyone pretty much shot me down on that one.

Someone needs to supply me a better option to putting together a deep playoff team. This team is at best a 5th seed, which is great, but the options to get any better are dwindling. Sometimes you have to take a chance. If this isn't that chance then i'm fine with that. All i ask is someone give me a better option to building a championship team. And don't say "be patient." We have been terrible for the last 9 years and just signed a 100 mil man who's about to be 28. He's worth every penny if we do this right, but the last thing we need to do is be patient.

Tim Duncan was lucky that he came into the league with Dave Robinson. And after Dave retired the Spurs were also lucky enough to have internal development with Tony Parker and Manu to continue the Championship pedigree.

Knicks are in a position to have internal development (AR, Gallo, Chandler, Moz) AND add a major piece because Donnie managed the cap so well. If you keep the young core of Douglas, AR, Gallo, Chandler, Moz together, you can argue that you have youth, athleticism, length and 2-way players. Are there any budding all-stars? Don't know, but you certainly can't argue that there is good gobs of opportunity.

And if you don't give up AR/Gallo, you must target a PG/SG that is a major upgrade over what the Knicks currently have with the capspace that is available over the next 2 years (we shall assume that C/PF/SF are good to go with Moz, Amare, Gallo, AR). Here is a list: OJ Mayo (RFA), CP3 (UFA), Deron Williams (UFA), Melo (UFA).

I am not buying that we "waste" Amare's good years if we don't get Melo right now, because, in fact, it would take just as much time to add other pieces to a combo of Melo/Amare (assuming a loss of 2014, AR/Gallo) before we could come up with anything better than Miami.

Ok I can buy the internal development argument as long as there is a plan to add valuable pieces. As I said I am a fan of getting Parker as an upgrade then the following summer getting mayo even tho he is a rfa so we would have to overpay. But this is the type of plan I can buy into vs dealing the young guys for melo.
loweyecue
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9/26/2010  11:24 PM
So, um, Martin...What is it that you want to do?
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martin
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9/26/2010  11:28 PM
loweyecue wrote:So, um, Martin...What is it that you want to do?

Oh, I am of the keep Gallo and AR flavor. I offer the Nuggs Chandler, Curry, Walker, Jerome Jordan, 2014, GS two second rounders. Something like that.

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loweyecue
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9/26/2010  11:35 PM
Ah OK, was getting a little lost in the maze of long drawn out explanations.
We have good chance of getting him in FA, since Denver seems to be going about this the wrong way and hopefully Melo has enough sense to want to play the year out if needed to join the Knicks.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
FrenchKnicks
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9/27/2010  5:58 AM
martin wrote:
loweyecue wrote:So, um, Martin...What is it that you want to do?

Oh, I am of the keep Gallo and AR flavor. I offer the Nuggs Chandler, Curry, Walker, Jerome Jordan, 2014, GS two second rounders. Something like that.

I second that, but I'd rather include Gallinari cause he can't play the 2, whereas Chandler can. I think Denver would prefer Gallo as well.
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9/27/2010  7:38 AM
FrenchKnicks wrote:
martin wrote:
loweyecue wrote:So, um, Martin...What is it that you want to do?

Oh, I am of the keep Gallo and AR flavor. I offer the Nuggs Chandler, Curry, Walker, Jerome Jordan, 2014, GS two second rounders. Something like that.

I second that, but I'd rather include Gallinari cause he can't play the 2, whereas Chandler can. I think Denver would prefer Gallo as well.


Chandler is more of a 2 than Gallo is, but Chandler can't shoot while Gallo can. You can't have a lineup in this system that has felton, chandler, and Melo at the 3 backcourt positions. You have to have a shooting guard who can shoot. Gallo can make that transition i believe. If we trade him, starting SG has to be Mason, Walker, or Buike when he is healthy.
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9/27/2010  8:59 AM
Knixkik wrote:
FrenchKnicks wrote:
martin wrote:
loweyecue wrote:So, um, Martin...What is it that you want to do?

Oh, I am of the keep Gallo and AR flavor. I offer the Nuggs Chandler, Curry, Walker, Jerome Jordan, 2014, GS two second rounders. Something like that.

I second that, but I'd rather include Gallinari cause he can't play the 2, whereas Chandler can. I think Denver would prefer Gallo as well.


Chandler is more of a 2 than Gallo is, but Chandler can't shoot while Gallo can. You can't have a lineup in this system that has felton, chandler, and Melo at the 3 backcourt positions. You have to have a shooting guard who can shoot. Gallo can make that transition i believe. If we trade him, starting SG has to be Mason, Walker, or Buike when he is healthy.

Chandler plays the same position as Melo and the same type of game. He will have to go in the trade.

Also, if Curry and Chandler are both included in a trade for Melo, then Walsh will have completely, 100% turned over the roster that he inherited from Isiah. Good job done in 2 years time.

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9/27/2010  9:17 AM
Now I have no idea who Incarcerated Bob is but this is what he just tweeted....

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver Nuggets offered Carmelo Anthony / JR Smith / another unnamed player (bench scrub) for Gallo / AR / Curry / Douglas
3 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver offered deal to Knicks last night & Knicks said NO! Source indicates Carmelo was miffed. He thought Knicks would do
2 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Carmelo set up whole situation for Knicks to get him w/o 1st rd pick but Knicks did not pull trigger
1 minute ago via web

I wasn't born with enough middle fingers!!!
Moonangie
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9/27/2010  9:19 AM
An NBA source said that Carmelo Anthony's arrival for media day in Denver on Monday would mean that the proposed trade to send him to New Jersey is dead.

The Nuggets are reportedly shopping Anthony to alternative suitors like Philadelphia for Andre Iguodala and Golden State for Stephen Curry. It is not clear whether Anthony would agree to sign a contract extension with either team. But it is possible that the Sixers would be willing to make a move for Anthony without an extension, in order to shed the long-term contract of Iguodala.


Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69297/20100927/source_melo_in_denver_monday_would_signal_end_of_nets_trade/#ixzz10jfZg1rM

I had never considered this idea: Philly as a one year rental to shed Iggy's contract. It works for Denver, it works for Philly, and most importantly, IT WORKS FOR THE KNICKS, who get to sign Melo next summer as an UFA.

Don't be surprised if it goes down this way. Saves face all around and gets Denver (arguably) the best return they can hope for.
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9/27/2010  9:19 AM
NYK3 wrote:Now I have no idea who Incarcerated Bob is but this is what he just tweeted....

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver Nuggets offered Carmelo Anthony / JR Smith / another unnamed player (bench scrub) for Gallo / AR / Curry / Douglas
3 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver offered deal to Knicks last night & Knicks said NO! Source indicates Carmelo was miffed. He thought Knicks would do
2 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Carmelo set up whole situation for Knicks to get him w/o 1st rd pick but Knicks did not pull trigger
1 minute ago via web

if that's true i'm thrilled.
martin
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9/27/2010  9:22 AM
NYK3 wrote:Now I have no idea who Incarcerated Bob is but this is what he just tweeted....

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver Nuggets offered Carmelo Anthony / JR Smith / another unnamed player (bench scrub) for Gallo / AR / Curry / Douglas
3 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver offered deal to Knicks last night & Knicks said NO! Source indicates Carmelo was miffed. He thought Knicks would do
2 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Carmelo set up whole situation for Knicks to get him w/o 1st rd pick but Knicks did not pull trigger
1 minute ago via web

Those salaries are so far off that that trade can't be done. Bob's sources suck.

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iSergio
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9/27/2010  9:26 AM
NYK3 wrote:Now I have no idea who Incarcerated Bob is but this is what he just tweeted....

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver Nuggets offered Carmelo Anthony / JR Smith / another unnamed player (bench scrub) for Gallo / AR / Curry / Douglas
3 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver offered deal to Knicks last night & Knicks said NO! Source indicates Carmelo was miffed. He thought Knicks would do
2 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Carmelo set up whole situation for Knicks to get him w/o 1st rd pick but Knicks did not pull trigger
1 minute ago via web

TERRIBLE! I'm VERY pissed!! How can you turn that down!!
skeng
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9/27/2010  9:36 AM
martin wrote:
NYK3 wrote:Now I have no idea who Incarcerated Bob is but this is what he just tweeted....

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver Nuggets offered Carmelo Anthony / JR Smith / another unnamed player (bench scrub) for Gallo / AR / Curry / Douglas
3 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Denver offered deal to Knicks last night & Knicks said NO! Source indicates Carmelo was miffed. He thought Knicks would do
2 minutes ago via web

**BREAKING NEWS** Carmelo set up whole situation for Knicks to get him w/o 1st rd pick but Knicks did not pull trigger
1 minute ago via web

Those salaries are so far off that that trade can't be done. Bob's sources suck.

Not that I know the exact numbers, but can't this work when we have cap room to absorb the rest?

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