TMS wrote:

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

TMS wrote:if Jordan Hill is a bust what are your thoughts on Hasheem Thabeet... do u consider him a bust already as well?

i didn't think there was a chance that thabeet even belonged in the lottery

apparently every draft board in the country, NBA scout & at least 1 GM disagreed with that estimation judging from the draft boards before draft night.

i could care less about any of that. i watch guys in college and i have a pretty good feel for how good they'll be in the pros. it's my opinion and i'm going to come on here and say it whether it disagrees or agrees with anyone - i don't really give two ****s.

i'm just telling u ur opinion is in the strict minority on this one... stop being such a girl.

same people who wanted greg oden over kevin durant huh?

create ur own opinions. jordan hill is trash, accept it.

how about u follow ur own advice.

........

ur referring to what others said in their own analysis of a player. nice of you to skip over the oden and durant comparison.

TMS wrote:

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

TMS wrote:if Jordan Hill is a bust what are your thoughts on Hasheem Thabeet... do u consider him a bust already as well?

i didn't think there was a chance that thabeet even belonged in the lottery

apparently every draft board in the country, NBA scout & at least 1 GM disagreed with that estimation judging from the draft boards before draft night.

i could care less about any of that. i watch guys in college and i have a pretty good feel for how good they'll be in the pros. it's my opinion and i'm going to come on here and say it whether it disagrees or agrees with anyone - i don't really give two ****s.

i'm just telling u ur opinion is in the strict minority on this one... stop being such a girl.

same people who wanted greg oden over kevin durant huh?

create ur own opinions. jordan hill is trash, accept it.

how about u follow ur own advice.

........

ur referring to what others said in their own analysis of a player. nice of you to skip over the oden and durant comparison.

u keep telling me to accept that Jordan Hill is trash, yet i don't remember ever telling anyone to accept the fact that he isn't... i just raise the point that there hasn't been enough of a sample to tell... i've watched this kid pretty extensively in college & i feel i have a pretty good read on his game & talent... if he ends up being a bust i'll be the first to admit it, but right now there's no way to come to that conclusion fairly... u got a problem with that? how much have you seen this kid play to already know he sucks? who the hell are you, some kind of expert to tell me what i should think about this player?

I say this all the time- a player has to reach a comfort zone in their game, where they come to understand (and accept)their own abilities and limitations as a players, the system they play in, and how they can use their abilities within that system. When this takes place, a player can play the game without thinking.

If you don't play, none of this will ever happen, though.

TMS wrote:Paladin, i think i'll take ur advice & just stay away from Jordan Hill discussions for a bit... like u said, there's no point trying to talk about this kid with people who already have their minds set that he's a bust already... i guess we'll just have to wait & see if i read this kid wrong or not in the coming years.

TMS wrote:

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

TMS wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

TMS wrote:if Jordan Hill is a bust what are your thoughts on Hasheem Thabeet... do u consider him a bust already as well?

i didn't think there was a chance that thabeet even belonged in the lottery

apparently every draft board in the country, NBA scout & at least 1 GM disagreed with that estimation judging from the draft boards before draft night.

i could care less about any of that. i watch guys in college and i have a pretty good feel for how good they'll be in the pros. it's my opinion and i'm going to come on here and say it whether it disagrees or agrees with anyone - i don't really give two ****s.

i'm just telling u ur opinion is in the strict minority on this one... stop being such a girl.

same people who wanted greg oden over kevin durant huh?

create ur own opinions. jordan hill is trash, accept it.

how about u follow ur own advice.

........

ur referring to what others said in their own analysis of a player. nice of you to skip over the oden and durant comparison.

u keep telling me to accept that Jordan Hill is trash, yet i don't remember ever telling anyone to accept the fact that he isn't... i just raise the point that there hasn't been enough of a sample to tell... i've watched this kid pretty extensively in college & i feel i have a pretty good read on his game & talent... if he ends up being a bust i'll be the first to admit it, but right now there's no way to come to that conclusion fairly... u got a problem with that? how much have you seen this kid play to already know he sucks? who the hell are you, some kind of expert to tell me what i should think about this player?

being good in college really means nothing in the NBA. im basing my opinion off his play and potential and what hes shown this year, which has been nothing. he cant even catch the ball without bobbling it, he has no post moves, really no offensive game and he was in college for several years. you may like his upside but i dont see it at all.

TMS wrote:you're basing your entire opinion of Jordan Hill based off 24 NBA games of sporadic action in garbage time & 5 summer league games where he actually put up respectable #'s... i'm basing mine off a year's worth of college games & everything i've seen from him since he hit the pros... i think i have a fairly better sense of his game than you do, no offense.

do you have a better sense of his game than knick management? how many players have been good in college and are garbage in the pros, especially big men?? majority of project big men never work out, jordan hill will be one of them. if he had shown the knicks anything in practice or in his playing time he wouldnt be traded halfway into his rookie year, its that simple. lottery picks dont get traded halfway through their rookie year.

TMS wrote:

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:you're basing your entire opinion of Jordan Hill based off 24 NBA games of sporadic action in garbage time & 5 summer league games where he actually put up respectable #'s... i'm basing mine off a year's worth of college games & everything i've seen from him since he hit the pros... i think i have a fairly better sense of his game than you do, no offense.

do you have a better sense of his game than knick management? how many players have been good in college and are garbage in the pros, especially big men?? majority of project big men never work out, jordan hill will be one of them. if he had shown the knicks anything in practice or in his playing time he wouldnt be traded halfway into his rookie year, its that simple. lottery picks dont get traded halfway through their rookie year.

first of all Donnie Walsh resisted including Jordan Hill on the trade for T-Mac but Houston would not make the deal w/o him, so there goes your entire argument... obviously Knicks' management thought enough about Jordan Hill's game to draft him #8 overall & the Rockets thought enough of him to demand he be included in this trade while sacrificing the cap space they valued this summer... every draft board in the country thought enough about him to have him ranked top 5 on their mock drafts up to draft night & Jay Bilas had him ranked #5 BPA over Tyreke Evans... u can try & reason to urself all u want that this kid is a bust but u have nothing to back up your opinion other than 24 games of sporadic action.

u gotta be kidding me. if they really thought jordan hill wouldve turned into something they would not have traded him. period. are u really trying to tell me they would??? if they had reke or steph for example, even jennings, you think they would trade them for mac?? LOL, if u do, that truly makes me laugh. Houston was desperate for a young player back, otherwise there was no point of making the trade when they couldve just let mac expire. bottom line is if they had any faith that hill would turn out good they wouldnt have been so quick to trade him.

Jay Bilas? really? the guy who said Randy Foye was the next D-Wade LOL.

u keep bringing up other peoples rankings...why? they were clearly wrong as reke is miles better than jordan hill is. so is curry and jennings. what he was ranked coming into the draft really means nothing.

TMS wrote:no, i'm not kidding you... we traded Jordan Hill as the price to pay for clearing up Fishlips' contract... the cap space this summer was DW's main goal ever since he took the job... Jordan Hill was still a project but it was universally acknowledged that he had good upside by everyone except a buncha Knick fans who booed him on draft night because they hadn't heard his name involved in draft rumors & had no idea about him as a prospect... the Knicks are going all in on the Lebron to NY plan this summer, or hadn't you heard the news? that means they gave up assets they wouldn't have otherwise been willing to give up... the way you talk is almost like we dumped Jordan Hill because they no longer wanted him, which is not the case... i bring up other people's rankings to show you that you have no idea what you're talking about other than 24 games of limited action... u act as if your opinion is gospel & no one else's matters when i am showing you that every source out there had him highly ranked on their draft boards, which goes directly against your expert analysis... i'm sorry, but i think i'll go with what i've seen out of Jordan Hill, which has been a lot more than you, & all the other NBA sources & resources out there over the rantings of some fan on a message board that has seen him all of 24 games in garbage minutes.

again, if the knicks had drafted reke curry or jennings for example they wouldnt have traded them. johnny flynn, james harden etc, you know rookies who actually SHOWED something to get you excited to what they could be. how convenient of you to ignore this. you keep bringing up pre draft rankings like that means something to what type of player theyll be in the NBA. brandon roy wasnt ranked in the top 5 and actually went 6th but hes easily the best player in that draft. these same experts you idolize said marvin williams had the most upside if that draft and was picked over cp3 and deron williams even danny granger went 17. again, what is your point?? i dont see whats so hard to understand that if they had faith that the rookie they drafted would turn out to be a good player they wouldnt have traded him. im done arguing with you about this stupidity.

IMO there's no way the Knicks should pick up his $2.8M option this summer... u can get better players than him w/a 2nd round pick.

Infamous wrote:

TMS wrote:you're basing your entire opinion of Jordan Hill based off 24 NBA games of sporadic action in garbage time & 5 summer league games where he actually put up respectable #'s... i'm basing mine off a year's worth of college games & everything i've seen from him since he hit the pros... i think i have a fairly better sense of his game than you do, no offense.

do you have a better sense of his game than knick management? how many players have been good in college and are garbage in the pros, especially big men?? majority of project big men never work out, jordan hill will be one of them. if he had shown the knicks anything in practice or in his playing time he wouldnt be traded halfway into his rookie year, its that simple. lottery picks dont get traded halfway through their rookie year.

TMS wrote:i would much rather go after someone like Sherron Collins or Greivis Vazquez out of this draft than to pick up Sergio's option... from what i've seen, Sergio makes very little impact when he's on the floor... he had that 1 good game where he got like 8 steals but other than that i haven't seen much from him at all... he's not a great orchestrator, not a good defender, not a good shooter, doesn't get to the FT line, is out of control on most drives into the paint & doesn't make smart decisions w/the ball when he gets there... i think it's fair to say Toney Douglas is miles ahead of him in terms of making a positive impact during games... Sergio's option is just way too much & i think we can easily get better options to compete w/TD this summer in the draft, whether we get that via the 2nd round picks, or whether we buy a pick late in the 1st round like Donnie did to get Toney to begin with.

I would never argue over players i've never seen play, so I won't comment on the college players. I will say that Sergio hasn't been with us the entire season and it's much easier to look good when you've had the benefit of working with the team for the entire season. I think in general your assessment of what Sergio has done in his time here is fair. I just don't know how the staff feels about his talent and whether he's worth bringing back. I just want to see us improve at the PG position and to find a way to do it cheaply would be even better. I would like to see how Sergio finishes out the year before making any final judgements on him. If he showed improvement, they could renounce Sergio and still workout something with him if he wanted to come back. It's not like he'd have a ton of other options from what I can see, unless he wanted to go back to Europe.