matt wrote:I think this game shows that the Knicks need to upgrade PG the most this offseason..

Let's talk some Kyle Lowry. Man was he a demon on D last night or what? We'll have a limited amount of resources available to add a PG upgrade next summer (2 2nd round picks, limited amount of cap space, if any, after hopefully making some bigger splashes) but I think you gotta consider this kid if you're the Knicks. He's up for the qualifying offer after the season with Houston for almost 3 million. If you're Donnie do you swoop in with a majority of the MLE to go get this guy provided we reach the cap with the other, bigger expenditures? He's quick, tough as nails, has some of the quickest hands on D I've ever seen and looks like he can orchestrate, shoot it fairly well and get to the rim whenever he wants to. This guy might really thrive with an expanded role. I mean we're gonna need to come up with a starting-caliber PG here somewhere fellas....LOL.. I was talkin' CJ Watson on another thread yesterday but maybe this is the guy we should be focusing on. This team desperately needs a PG upgrade over Duhon -- I agree with Matt, Duhon was one of the bigger reasons we lost last night IMO. It's such a glaring problem, even with Duhon playing better lately. Having Chris Duhon running this D'Antoni offense is like driving a car with a flat tire most of the time. After a couple of deep jumpers early on, Duhon completely vanished the rest of the way last night. He even had problems crossing the timeline against Lowry at one point in the 2nd half. It was like we ran that whole 2nd half w/o a lead guard out there. We desperately need a guy that can orchestrate and then when everything breaks down, go get his own and be able to do it at will. Duhon can't do that. Nate can, but on the flip side, he's clearly not a PG - Nate's always gonna be looking for his own first and foremost. Plus, he's been really sloppy and careless with the ball lately. The lil' fella has many good qualities, but he's no orchestrator, let's be honest. We need a truer PG that can balance both elements - creating for teammates ALONG WITH the ability to go get it himself if need be.

SO what do you guys think about Lowry? Think he'd look good in a Knick uniform? And for how much? If we're in a position where our MLE kicks in, do you throw most of it at this guy in an effort to scare off Houston from retaining him (say Donnie came in and offered something like a 3-year deal at say $12-13 million or so - right around $4 mil. a season)? Would Houston match that for a guy that would be a backup to Aaron Brooks? They might not. Over here, we could offer him a starting role. Clearly he's not the ideal guy for D'Antoni to run things but for what we'll have available to us, I think he'd make for a decent upgrade. Thoughts?

Pharzeone wrote:What I don't get is why Bender starts off in the high post or the corner. He obvious isn't capable of getting to the basket without a clear path. If I was D'Antoni I would just leave him to play a tradition center role. I know it clogs up the lane but he is an automatic turnover machine that far out of the post. His mind is telling him he can still make the moves while his body is just laughing no way in hell.

I was thinking the same thing. He is more efficient in the paint on both ends. Gallo looks fluid compared to this guy. But I am not completely against him getting minutes. I really don't think Bender lost us the game or putting Hill in there would have made the outcome any different.

Finestrg wrote:

matt wrote:I think this game shows that the Knicks need to upgrade PG the most this offseason..

Let's talk some Kyle Lowry.

Houston has an incredible supporting cast. This is why they should just dump TMac and his salary and go FA hunting. Imagine if LeBron had Houston's supporting cast?

misterearl wrote:"Tell that to Misterearl the Homer."

JrHustla - tell this to yo momma

Misterearl, this is the 2nd time I've noticed you take a unprovoked dig at Jrzyhustla. Please stop.

tkf wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:Lee 26/12
Scola 23/7

yea.. not sure what game cos was watching.. but when hayes came in, he gave lee a tough time, but I think lee had tired legs at that point..

The same game you guys watch. We all come away with differing opinions. No big deal. But I see what I see and I saw David Lee got beaten worse than a redheaded step child.

Now, Don't get me wrong here, don't twist my words or thoughts, I think David Lee has played tremendous basketball and improves literally game to game at times. However for as much as he gives us on one end he absolutely gives up more on the other end. As the Center of the team you are the anchor, you are the last line of defense, it is your job to deny a hoop when a teammate gets beaten. In this David Lee gets absolutely whored and it costs us games against the good teams.

Now, I speak on what I watch. I don't take a hater's mentality or the mentality of a "face only a mother can love" <--- meaning, even if a player puts up 0-0-0-5 (5 being TOs) I don't say "Oh well, everyone has bad games, don't worry about it, he will bounce back, it's the refs fault, GO KNICKS" --- for, I just can't and never have done that.

I've watched this team since 1985. Religiously. I don't need my fanship questioned.

Now, when we build our future team starting this summer, and we re-sign Lee (I think it's likely that we do), what we have to understand is when you hit the playoffs you are playing teams like the Rockets. Teams that have big front courts and penetrating guards. So you can take your overall regular season stats and throw them out the window because it is a brand new game against teams that matter. The teams that matter all have players that torch David Lee (And Harrington, and Jeffries, etc). So you have to wonder... I can re-sign Lee and be a good regular season team, but, do I not care about the playoffs? Is making the playoffs good enough? When we make the playoffs is it okay that Lee goes for 20/10 but gives up 45 points to various players? And, yes, again, as the anchor of the defense, of which the center is no matter who he is, you're not just playing YOUR MAN you are playing the ENTIRE OPPOSING TEAM. You are playing the Center as your man, you are playing the PF who spins away from his defender. You are playing the guards that penetrate.

And in that David Lee, for as good as he can be, when I watch us lose to the good teams, I see a man who gives up more than he takes.

And that isn't a winning formula. What happens if we make the playoffs and we face Orlando and Dwight Howard? Or Cleveland and Shaq and Big Z? Or Atlanta and Horford? Or Philly and Brand/Dalembert? WE GET OUR ASSES KICKED THATS WHAT. So this is okay? Really? I think NOT.

And that...is my point here. Not so much about a single game...but...what this single game represents. And what it represents is a team that can make the playoffs but then get bounced right on out of said playoffs because their top player, their anchor, gets whored worse than a 15 year old catholic school girl lost on a carribean island. It's not a good look for our future.

Now let us not get things twisted. Our record says who we are. Our record against winning teams is something like 4-10. We have our wins against sub .500 teams. Don't let a little 12-6 run, as fun as it was to watch, delude you into thinking we're now a good team, whose players all need to be re-signed.

We're not. Last night showed that. Yet I digress, I feel last night was more about coaching than anything else. The Rockets adjusted and we still did our thing which led to us getting our asses kicked. That's on Mike IMO.

But back to Lee. Playing tremendous basketball on one end and playing like a 3 year old with downs syndrome on the other end. The net result is, and should be, in question here. His net result is a loss. So either he needs to decide to work on that end of his game for a CHANGE or we need to go back to the same old BS thoughts of "WEll, ____ is great on offense, so, if we can only land ____ who is awesome on defense, it'll all be fine!" Which, again, is fools gold, because you're tasking on player to ignore his position in order to cover for a teammate. That always leads to a breakdown, which always leads to the opponent exposing that breakdown and scoring.

We really need to look hard at Lee and wonder if we want to keep him or not. If we don't then we need to deal him before February deadline. A mere six weeks away now.

Cosmic wrote:

tkf wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:Lee 26/12
Scola 23/7

yea.. not sure what game cos was watching.. but when hayes came in, he gave lee a tough time, but I think lee had tired legs at that point..

The same game you guys watch. We all come away with differing opinions. No big deal. But I see what I see and I saw David Lee got beaten worse than a redheaded step child.

Now, Don't get me wrong here, don't twist my words or thoughts, I think David Lee has played tremendous basketball and improves literally game to game at times. However for as much as he gives us on one end he absolutely gives up more on the other end. As the Center of the team you are the anchor, you are the last line of defense, it is your job to deny a hoop when a teammate gets beaten. In this David Lee gets absolutely whored and it costs us games against the good teams.

Now, I speak on what I watch. I don't take a hater's mentality or the mentality of a "face only a mother can love" <--- meaning, even if a player puts up 0-0-0-5 (5 being TOs) I don't say "Oh well, everyone has bad games, don't worry about it, he will bounce back, it's the refs fault, GO KNICKS" --- for, I just can't and never have done that.

I've watched this team since 1985. Religiously. I don't need my fanship questioned.

Now, when we build our future team starting this summer, and we re-sign Lee (I think it's likely that we do), what we have to understand is when you hit the playoffs you are playing teams like the Rockets. Teams that have big front courts and penetrating guards. So you can take your overall regular season stats and throw them out the window because it is a brand new game against teams that matter. The teams that matter all have players that torch David Lee (And Harrington, and Jeffries, etc). So you have to wonder... I can re-sign Lee and be a good regular season team, but, do I not care about the playoffs? Is making the playoffs good enough? When we make the playoffs is it okay that Lee goes for 20/10 but gives up 45 points to various players? And, yes, again, as the anchor of the defense, of which the center is no matter who he is, you're not just playing YOUR MAN you are playing the ENTIRE OPPOSING TEAM. You are playing the Center as your man, you are playing the PF who spins away from his defender. You are playing the guards that penetrate.

And in that David Lee, for as good as he can be, when I watch us lose to the good teams, I see a man who gives up more than he takes.

And that isn't a winning formula. What happens if we make the playoffs and we face Orlando and Dwight Howard? Or Cleveland and Shaq and Big Z? Or Atlanta and Horford? Or Philly and Brand/Dalembert? WE GET OUR ASSES KICKED THATS WHAT. So this is okay? Really? I think NOT.

And that...is my point here. Not so much about a single game...but...what this single game represents. And what it represents is a team that can make the playoffs but then get bounced right on out of said playoffs because their top player, their anchor, gets whored worse than a 15 year old catholic school girl lost on a carribean island. It's not a good look for our future.

Now let us not get things twisted. Our record says who we are. Our record against winning teams is something like 4-10. We have our wins against sub .500 teams. Don't let a little 12-6 run, as fun as it was to watch, delude you into thinking we're now a good team, whose players all need to be re-signed.

We're not. Last night showed that. Yet I digress, I feel last night was more about coaching than anything else. The Rockets adjusted and we still did our thing which led to us getting our asses kicked. That's on Mike IMO.

But back to Lee. Playing tremendous basketball on one end and playing like a 3 year old with downs syndrome on the other end. The net result is, and should be, in question here. His net result is a loss. So either he needs to decide to work on that end of his game for a CHANGE or we need to go back to the same old BS thoughts of "WEll, ____ is great on offense, so, if we can only land ____ who is awesome on defense, it'll all be fine!" Which, again, is fools gold, because you're tasking on player to ignore his position in order to cover for a teammate. That always leads to a breakdown, which always leads to the opponent exposing that breakdown and scoring.

We really need to look hard at Lee and wonder if we want to keep him or not. If we don't then we need to deal him before February deadline. A mere six weeks away now.

Cosmic, i feel u on this... u can't just gloss over D Lee's defensive deficiencies & expect to make any kinda noise in the playoffs (if we even get there that is)... if the plan is to re-sign D Lee in the offseason, then they better make damn well sure we also get a defensive presence in the paint to go along w/him... whether that means signing a FA like Marcus Camby or giving Jordan Hill some burn this year to see if he can possibly fill that void going forward, something needs to be done, because Fishlips is NOT a low post defender, he's too weak to stop guys from backing him down in the paint & scoring on him at will... he's a perimeter guy who hounds smaller guards & gives them problems w/his length.

anyone who questions someone else's fandom or knowledge of the game for raising legitimate issues needs to check themselves & get off their high horse... this is a fan message board, & everyone here is a fan... ain't no one here more qualified to speak on the Knicks than anyone else, but some people seem to think they are. (not directing this at anyone in particular, just making a general statement)

TMS wrote:

Cosmic, i feel u on this... u can't just gloss over D Lee's defensive deficiencies & expect to make any kinda noise in the playoffs (if we even get there that is)... if the plan is to re-sign D Lee in the offseason, then they better make damn well sure we also get a defensive presence in the paint to go along w/him... whether that means signing a FA like Marcus Camby or giving Jordan Hill some burn this year to see if he can possibly fill that void going forward, something needs to be done, because Fishlips is NOT a low post defender, he's too weak to stop guys from backing him down in the paint & scoring on him at will... he's a perimeter guy who hounds smaller guards & gives them problems w/his length.

anyone who questions someone else's fandom or knowledge of the game for raising legitimate issues needs to check themselves & get off their high horse... this is a fan message board, & everyone here is a fan... ain't no one here more qualified to speak on the Knicks than anyone else, but some people seem to think they are. (not directing this at anyone in particular, just making a general statement)

I hear ya on all counts. But, it's just something that we deal with on the Internet. You won't find it talking at your local bar with anyone. You won't find it talking with friends or relatives. You won't find it talking with the random strangers around you at a game. It's just online. Not sure why but it happens. A bit annoying but once I hit that power button I don't even think about it.

I know what kind of a fan I am. If I want to call a player out I will and no internet stranger is going to tell me I'm a troll or not a fan of the team I've watched for 25 years just because I don't want to have FishLips babies.