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Official New York Pick #1 Thread: Danilo Gallinari
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eViL
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6/29/2008  1:41 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

after another regime change, it looks like going all out for a title team doesn't seem to be the #1 priority for the franchise. there's nothing wrong with that. if you're an owner of a team, you want to see your team in the press, make money, fill seats, and sell merchandise. the knicks will do that. hiring d'alsh will help achieve that. there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

but for those fans that really want to see them go after it...try to start building towards a title, these past few days may get them down.

the team will be better. the team will play better. there will be more excitement. at some point, they will achieve their goal of getting back to the playoffs. but would that be the ceiling or will that just be another rung in the ladder? imho, i think playoffs is the only goal at the moment and anything after that will take pure luck.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 12:35 PM]

Hey man, I respect your opinion a lot, but I don't think we can say, based on Walshtoni's limited body of work here, that winning a title is not a long-term goal; and I don't think that desiring a more profitable, marketable team and desiring a championship has to be mutually exclusive. You are right that winning a chip will require a lot of luck. The truth is, that is the case for all teams, all sports.

Championship squads result from the perfect convergence of hard work, opportunity and luck. The Celts got lucky that everything fell into place for them to go all in. The Spurs lucked out they won the Duncan sweepstakes. The Lakers lucked out on gambling a big vet (Vlade) for a then unproven 18 year old high school kid (Bryant). The Heat got lucky that the teams ahead of them passed on Wade and they were even more lucky that Shaq and Kobe couldn't get along. The Pistons got lucky that Ainge was there to help them get Rasheed. The Bulls got lucky that Portland selected Sam Bowie. The list goes on and on. Every team works hard to put themselves in position to capitalized on opportunity, but once you get there -- you need that extra bit of luck.

I don't see any indications that Knicks brass are foregoing true contention for pure marketability. They picked a guy that got unanimously booed by the home crowd. They picked a guy that is supposedly a project. Walshtoni even admits he's a project. The Knicks were actively shopping for another lottery pick. That doesn't sound like a team with short-term goals to me. If the Knicks only concern was winning short term, our pick would have been better used in a trade for a proven vet. The Knicks are trying to trade their best young asset (Lee) for what?? Not a vet. They are trying to trade Lee to get a lottery pick or another young player that plays a position of need.

Sure, hiring a big splash coach indicates a desire to sell some tickets and play an entertaining brand of bball. Every other move indicates the Knicks are being patient and planning for the future. Not one move of the current regime has done anything to hurt our future. In fact, drafting DG just solidified another year of struggle; another lottery pick. As long as DG eventually pans out, and the next lotto pick does the same -- the Knicks will be poised to make that next step. We all have to realize that we're talking about two more seasons of struggle; and we are counting on some luck along the way (just like 29 other teams).

With that said, if Walshtoni start making some win-now moves -- I'll take this all back. I just don't think we can say any recent moves, outside of hiring D'Antoni, suggest that the Knicks will be anything but patient in the rebuilding process. As far as selling tickets goes, at this point, after the last few seasons, I'm pretty sure Dolan is convinced that it doesn't matter what type of product is out there -- MSG will always be a hot ticket, maybe he's finally given the green light on the rebuild.
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djsunyc
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6/29/2008  2:16 PM
i'll tell you why i think that evil, b/c next year's pick will not be as high as 6 (barring an absolute tank job and i don't think they will be) and the knicks have no pick in 2010. they are trying to plan to get under the cap to land a major free agent but what if lebron re-ups with cleveland, wade in miami, melo, bosh, etc. then what? maybe the fix is in but what if it's not? it's cool to get the other free agents but the point is this draft, the knicks HAD to hit a homerun and they didn't. litrenari may become a good player but you're already putting forth a motion of having a frontcourt player that can't defend worth a lick. that right there puts you in a major hole operating under championship aspirations. that's why i was also against drafting eric gordon b/c at the end of the day, he's a 6-2, 6-3 shooting guard...again in a major disadvantage down the road.

the pick here was a swing for the fences (like randolph) or a point guard...or what i thought they should do...trade the pick. starphucking IS the best way to move forward from this point. knicks can spend unlike any other team. they have a 68 year old gm and coach that needs to win now. i don't believe that after this season, he'll still be looking to develop the team. he wants to win right away. he may give it a year but that's it. starphuching will get you into the playoffs quicker and create a buzz quicker. especially with what was available at #6 in the draft. i have 100X more confidence in walsh to starphuck than isiah. that fool brought in the wrong players.

do they think they're drafting dirk here? b/c i don't think this guy will be dirk. and my reasoning why is b/c he has more game than dirk. let me explain...dirk can't do all the fancy dribbling, pull up, jab step, or all that jazz. he knows his limitations which is to take a jumper or use his size to post up a guy and shoot over him at the elbow. but galinari can do other things which mean he will try to pass up some easier shots to try and pump fake and take someone off the dribble which i think actually hurts him at this level b/c his best asset is his jumpshooting. it's kind of twisted logic but i hope i'm explaining myself correctly.

last season, the garden had a huge tourist attendance rate. there were many foreign flags whenever a foreign player came to town. 1/2 the garden chanted for juan carlos navarro. the knicks were after a big time foreign player for a while. and they had a chance to get one and they took him. this was a big reason why they looked at him as hard as they did. if you look at the other 2 major markets - lakers got gasol, chicago has nocioni (though not a star but still a big time foreign name and contributor) but ny had nobody.

i'm not saying any of this in a negative manner. i think these are sound business moves by the garden. i just think knicks fans in general should lower their expectations.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 2:33 PM]
eViL
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6/29/2008  2:34 PM
That's fair. My expectations are pretty low. Despite that, my interest is high. You are right. Our front court of the future (the future as we know it now) is set up to be weak defensively. No argument here. I guess my stance is that there are still enough unanswered questions, that I can't go all the way with your projections for the team's future.

I can understand why Walsh is not in a rush to trade right now. He doesn't want to sell low. Any starphuck will be better achieved when this team and its players get a chance to look better. If you are right, and the Knicks improve enough to miss out on a top pick next year -- then chances are, our players will have more value by virtue of their better performance this season.
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djsunyc
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6/29/2008  2:38 PM
Posted by eViL:

That's fair. My expectations are pretty low. Despite that, my interest is high. You are right. Our front court of the future (the future as we know it now) is set up to be weak defensively. No argument here. I guess my stance is that there are still enough unanswered questions, that I can't go all the way with your projections for the team's future.

I can understand why Walsh is not in a rush to trade right now. He doesn't want to sell low. Any starphuck will be better achieved when this team and its players get a chance to look better. If you are right, and the Knicks improve enough to miss out on a top pick next year -- then chances are, our players will have more value by virtue of their better performance this season.

that could be the case, but the problem is that you lose out on marbury's huge expiring contract this year...and that's key in starphucking. knicks have more expirings next year also so they could add to a potential big player that comes here via marbury's deal. and knicks lost out on possibly moving the #6 pick along with malik's expiring for another big name player.

time will reveal what the knicks true intentions are...but this is my guestimation. it's funny b/c this is opposite to my stance as recent as a year ago.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 2:39 PM]
eViL
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6/29/2008  2:45 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by eViL:

That's fair. My expectations are pretty low. Despite that, my interest is high. You are right. Our front court of the future (the future as we know it now) is set up to be weak defensively. No argument here. I guess my stance is that there are still enough unanswered questions, that I can't go all the way with your projections for the team's future.

I can understand why Walsh is not in a rush to trade right now. He doesn't want to sell low. Any starphuck will be better achieved when this team and its players get a chance to look better. If you are right, and the Knicks improve enough to miss out on a top pick next year -- then chances are, our players will have more value by virtue of their better performance this season.

that could be the case, but the problem is that you lose out on marbury's huge expiring contract this year...and that's key in starphucking. knicks have more expirings next year also so they could add to a potential big player that comes here via marbury's deal. and knicks lost out on possibly moving the #6 pick along with malik's expiring for another big name player.

time will reveal what the knicks true intentions are...but this is my guestimation. it's funny b/c this is opposite to my stance as recent as a year ago.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 2:39 PM]

I think Ainge proved that starphucking works when done right. That's bound to influence your opinion.
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oohah
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6/29/2008  3:27 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

the team will be better. the team will play better. there will be more excitement. at some point, they will achieve their goal of getting back to the playoffs. but would that be the ceiling or will that just be another rung in the ladder? imho, i think playoffs is the only goal at the moment and anything after that will take pure luck.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 12:35 PM]

You hit the nail on the head DJ. They are trying to improve the team, but a title is not the overriding concern.

So I am just sitting back and hoping that Galinari will become the next Larry Bird ('Cause he's white), because that is our most realistic hope of reaching for a title.

I'm not even going to waste time talking about "what we should do", now it is all about grabbing up some players and re-tooling for a spectacular run at the second round!

One thing that does make me happy is it seems that Walsh has some friends around the NBA, and as this past NBA season proved, back-scratching can be the difference between a bubble-playoff team and a championship caliber team.

I read in Berman that Mullin is friends with Walsh (makes sense since Walsh picked Mullin up at the end of his career.). And we know that Don Nelson loves to wheel and deal! I just can't see them taking Lee and keeping Biedrins. But I don't think it is an even trade, I think Beidrins is a little better. We might have to eat some crap to get a good play from the warriors.

oohah



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eViL
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6/29/2008  4:18 PM
Posted by oohah:

You hit the nail on the head DJ. They are trying to improve the team, but a title is not the overriding concern.

I should clarify that I don't think this team is on course for a title by any means. I just don't believe the new regime has done anything to put us further away from a title either. And I don't believe that any of the next few moves we make are going to make or break this franchise unless they further hamper our flexibility.

So many teams that are up and coming right now have made mistakes along the way (POR - giving Zach a deal, trading out of the spot to pick Chris Paul, DEN - Kenyon, CHI - Tyrus Thomas, not pulling the trigger on Kobe or KG or Gasol). Most of the contenders have made mistakes (LA - trading Caron for Kwame, BOS - tons of mistakes before the perfect storm of trades and transactions last off-season, NO - letting JR Smith go for nothing, DET - Darko, letting Okur walk, CLE - Boozer, Hughes, DAL - letting Nash walk, etc.) These teams all made mistakes to one degree or another, some obviously worse than others, but they are still all just a few moves from winning a title.

We are so low and so far from being a title contender, talking championships is silly. No one move that we make today or this offseason will bury us as long as Walshtoni does not add a dramatic amount of salary. Whether we get under the cap or not, the team needs to be more flexible. Isiah's tenure complicated mistakes by piling on more and more mistakes while simultaneously trading away the easiest way to acquire cheap young talented players (lottery picks). That is the type of thing that can cripple a franchise. Picking a 19YO project from Europe, who may or may not be a star, but has a good chance at being a solid starter is not a franchise crippler. Trading for Zach Randolph is. Isiah specialized in a acquiring guys that would be completely unmarketable if things didn't work out. That's what kills flexibility.

Of course, if you are of the opinion that DG will be a complete and total irredeemable bust, then this move was a major set-back. I don't think he's going to bust though. Based on his ability to more than hold his own playing with adult, professional basketball players, I expect him to at least be a solid starter in the NBA. And if he is not perfect for us in a few years -- I'm pretty confident there will be a market for him. That's why I'm not so down on this pick or this new regime.
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djsunyc
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6/29/2008  7:39 PM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by eViL:

That's fair. My expectations are pretty low. Despite that, my interest is high. You are right. Our front court of the future (the future as we know it now) is set up to be weak defensively. No argument here. I guess my stance is that there are still enough unanswered questions, that I can't go all the way with your projections for the team's future.

I can understand why Walsh is not in a rush to trade right now. He doesn't want to sell low. Any starphuck will be better achieved when this team and its players get a chance to look better. If you are right, and the Knicks improve enough to miss out on a top pick next year -- then chances are, our players will have more value by virtue of their better performance this season.

that could be the case, but the problem is that you lose out on marbury's huge expiring contract this year...and that's key in starphucking. knicks have more expirings next year also so they could add to a potential big player that comes here via marbury's deal. and knicks lost out on possibly moving the #6 pick along with malik's expiring for another big name player.

time will reveal what the knicks true intentions are...but this is my guestimation. it's funny b/c this is opposite to my stance as recent as a year ago.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 2:39 PM]

I think Ainge proved that starphucking works when done right. That's bound to influence your opinion.

he did it right...and it has nothing to do with the title. starphucking can get you 2nd round o the playoffs. and i think many teams would die to get there, including the knicks. and there's a solid chance that building through the draft without top 3 picks will never get you there either.

i think all of these trades could be done w/ a few tweaks:

marbury + 6 for diddy + 14
zach for kmart
dlee + malik for artest
crawford for troy murphy
jr smith for full MLE (if not jr, then 2 year deal to ricky davis)
draft brandon rush with 14 (or add some cash to move up a little to take him)

starting 5 of diddy + jr/ricky + artest + kmart + murphy with d'antoni coaching. don't gotta worry about defense b/c 2 of those players love to play it (artest + kmart).

then next season, you have q + jerome's $16 mil in expiring to add players with.

that trumps any other plan that the knicks could think of with the thought of keeping the 6th pick.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 7:41 PM]
playa2
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6/29/2008  7:56 PM

So I am just sitting back and hoping that Galinari will become the next Larry Bird ('Cause he's white), because that is our most realistic hope of reaching for a title.

oohah




[/quote]


Oohah if this kid gallanari had any remote chance of being like a Larry Bird type teams in the association picking a head of the knicks would have scooped him up like a groom with his bride on their wedding day.




[Edited by - playa2 on 29-06-2008 19:57]
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6/29/2008  8:04 PM
dj imo asking somebody to coach ricky davis artest kmart diddy is asking them to commit career suicide.

2 many volatile personalities b/n those 4 alone
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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6/29/2008  8:29 PM
Posted by McK1:

dj imo asking somebody to coach ricky davis artest kmart diddy is asking them to commit career suicide.

2 many volatile personalities b/n those 4 alone

i agree...but i also see d'anonti getting frustrated and will force moves after 1 year as well.
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6/29/2008  9:23 PM
Oohah if this kid gallanari had any remote chance of being like a Larry Bird type teams in the association picking a head of the knicks would have scooped him up like a groom with his bride on their wedding day.

Kind of like everybody scooped up Dirk Dirk?

Shhhh.....Playa, nobody is supposed to know Galinari is the Euro-bird...it's a conspiracy.

oohah

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6/30/2008  1:20 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by McK1:

dj imo asking somebody to coach ricky davis artest kmart diddy is asking them to commit career suicide.

2 many volatile personalities b/n those 4 alone

i agree...but i also see d'anonti getting frustrated and will force moves after 1 year as well.

i can see that too but that means Walsh would go against his stated mission statement of getting under the cap by 2010... we'll see who's really in control of this franchise next summer.
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6/30/2008  2:28 AM
Posted by djsunyc:



he did it right...and it has nothing to do with the title. starphucking can get you 2nd round o the playoffs. and i think many teams would die to get there, including the knicks. and there's a solid chance that building through the draft without top 3 picks will never get you there either.

i think all of these trades could be done w/ a few tweaks:

marbury + 6 for diddy + 14
zach for kmart
dlee + malik for artest
crawford for troy murphy
jr smith for full MLE (if not jr, then 2 year deal to ricky davis)
draft brandon rush with 14 (or add some cash to move up a little to take him)

starting 5 of diddy + jr/ricky + artest + kmart + murphy with d'antoni coaching. don't gotta worry about defense b/c 2 of those players love to play it (artest + kmart).

then next season, you have q + jerome's $16 mil in expiring to add players with.

that trumps any other plan that the knicks could think of with the thought of keeping the 6th pick.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 7:41 PM]

that team would be one of the larger train wrecks in the history of the nba. not to mention most of those deals are highly unrealistic.

this is a time when knicks fans need to be patient. acquire assets, let some bad contracts expire and try to change the culture of the team and let things build naturally. i believe, as evil said, that we'll need to get a little lucky to make something really happen - but you have to put yourself in a position to capitalize on luck.

baron/ricky davis/artest/kmart/troy murphy is the same thing as marbury/craw/qrich/zach/curry with different names on the back of the jerseys. we need to build a team of working parts from the ground up. we need a foundation. i am done starphucking. it does not work at all. not one of the players on your list is half the player ray allen, paul pierce or KG is. there is starphuching and there is what boston did and they are two different things. boston would not have been able to do what they did if they hadn't drafted smartly over the last three years as well. we need to build a team then finish it off with a 2010 starphuch.
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djsunyc
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6/30/2008  8:26 AM
two major differences, baron + artest + kmart all actually advanced in the playoffs. artest made it to the ECF's and kmart to the finals. artest and kmart take pride in their defense too.
McK1
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6/30/2008  9:27 AM
lets just lose 60 games while developing DG and get another top pick
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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6/30/2008  10:00 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by djsunyc:



he did it right...and it has nothing to do with the title. starphucking can get you 2nd round o the playoffs. and i think many teams would die to get there, including the knicks. and there's a solid chance that building through the draft without top 3 picks will never get you there either.

i think all of these trades could be done w/ a few tweaks:

marbury + 6 for diddy + 14
zach for kmart
dlee + malik for artest
crawford for troy murphy
jr smith for full MLE (if not jr, then 2 year deal to ricky davis)
draft brandon rush with 14 (or add some cash to move up a little to take him)

starting 5 of diddy + jr/ricky + artest + kmart + murphy with d'antoni coaching. don't gotta worry about defense b/c 2 of those players love to play it (artest + kmart).

then next season, you have q + jerome's $16 mil in expiring to add players with.

that trumps any other plan that the knicks could think of with the thought of keeping the 6th pick.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2008 7:41 PM]

that team would be one of the larger train wrecks in the history of the nba. not to mention most of those deals are highly unrealistic.

this is a time when knicks fans need to be patient. acquire assets, let some bad contracts expire and try to change the culture of the team and let things build naturally. i believe, as evil said, that we'll need to get a little lucky to make something really happen - but you have to put yourself in a position to capitalize on luck.

baron/ricky davis/artest/kmart/troy murphy is the same thing as marbury/craw/qrich/zach/curry with different names on the back of the jerseys. we need to build a team of working parts from the ground up. we need a foundation. i am done starphucking. it does not work at all. not one of the players on your list is half the player ray allen, paul pierce or KG is. there is starphuching and there is what boston did and they are two different things. boston would not have been able to do what they did if they hadn't drafted smartly over the last three years as well. we need to build a team then finish it off with a 2010 starphuch.

and i think walsh may agree with you. he's really made a big deal about the 2010 cap thing so i expect him to stick with it. it's going to be tough to move guys on the team so i'm guessing there'll be a wait-it-out approach taken.
playa2
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6/30/2008  10:33 AM
Posted by oohah:
Oohah if this kid gallanari had any remote chance of being like a Larry Bird type teams in the association picking a head of the knicks would have scooped him up like a groom with his bride on their wedding day.

Kind of like everybody scooped up Dirk Dirk?

Shhhh.....Playa, nobody is supposed to know Galinari is the Euro-bird...it's a conspiracy.

oohah

Just like Bird rarity in the association, do you really think there is another nowitzki out there

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6/30/2008  10:57 AM
I Edited a Gallinari vid because I didn't like the way all his vids on youtube were, too much time between plays, 4 or 5 camera angles of every shot. This one is much faster moving and easier to watch



[Edited by - knickssince88 on 06-30-2008 10:58 AM]
playa2
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6/30/2008  11:53 AM


This is my first time watching his selection proccess

I thinks the fans made him feel very uncomfortable.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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