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Now I like Isiah more. He is not always a snake, sometimes he is honest...
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BasketballJones
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9/18/2007  4:04 PM
I like it when the board discusses difficult issues. The discussions often seem unproductive, repetitive, futile, and frustrating, but I guess that's why they're "difficult".

I will agree that the sports message board doesn't seem like the best medium for these discussions, and a discussion of racism or prejudice can go in so many different directions that misunderstandings are inevitable.

On the other hand, what other venue would be better? I'll bet none of us will be voluntarily attending "Killa's Racism Teach In" any time soon.

No one has to read any thread they don't want to read, and once a topic is moved to the OT area, it dies. I say if guys wanna work on the hard stuff, and can do it civilly, why not let them go for it?




[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:04]
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Bippity10
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9/18/2007  4:05 PM
I personally have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it's relevant or as a topic starter. But when it's brought up out of left field as it often is, it is annoying as hell.
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Allanfan20
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9/18/2007  4:09 PM
I'm just saying that race is being talked 10X more than sports right now and that we should be getting back to basketball.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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9/18/2007  4:09 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Person one: Oh my god Isiah just stabbed Marbs in the face for no reason

Person two: Why aren't you talking about Bill Bellichick or the Jena6

Person one: What?

Person two: Racist

Person 3, 4, 5 and 6: What?

Person 7, 8, 9 and 10: There's institutionalized racism in america

Person 1: I know, but what does that have to do with Isiah stabbing Marbs?

Person 2: You will never understand

Person 1: Black people need to get over it

Person 2: (Nine page post about racism, hypocracy and discrimination in america including articles, quotes and studies)

Person 1: I forget what we were talking about. Did someone get stabbed?

Person 2: Racist


I think this is pretty accurate

sh!t, 2 weeks until training camp. I'm just gonna read this post over and over again until then.

Season can't start soon enough

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Bippity10
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9/18/2007  4:15 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bippity10:

Person one: Oh my god Isiah just stabbed Marbs in the face for no reason

Person two: Why aren't you talking about Bill Bellichick or the Jena6

Person one: What?

Person two: Racist

Person 3, 4, 5 and 6: What?

Person 7, 8, 9 and 10: There's institutionalized racism in america

Person 1: I know, but what does that have to do with Isiah stabbing Marbs?

Person 2: You will never understand

Person 1: Black people need to get over it

Person 2: (Nine page post about racism, hypocracy and discrimination in america including articles, quotes and studies)

Person 1: I forget what we were talking about. Did someone get stabbed?

Person 2: Racist


I think this is pretty accurate

sh!t, 2 weeks until training camp. I'm just gonna read this post over and over again until then.

Season can't start soon enough


It's funny because it's true
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BasketballJones
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9/18/2007  4:16 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I personally have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it's relevant or as a topic starter. But when it's brought up out of left field as it often is, it is annoying as hell.

It's not out of left field in this case. The thread started with this quote:
She also said Thomas rebuffed her March 2004 request that he sign renewal-request letters sent out to past season ticket holders with a pointed shot at loyal Knick fans.
"Bitch, I don't give a f--k about these white people," Browne Sanders said Thomas told her.




[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:16]
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Bippity10
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9/18/2007  4:24 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

I personally have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it's relevant or as a topic starter. But when it's brought up out of left field as it often is, it is annoying as hell.

It's not out of left field in this case. The thread started with this quote:
She also said Thomas rebuffed her March 2004 request that he sign renewal-request letters sent out to past season ticket holders with a pointed shot at loyal Knick fans.
"Bitch, I don't give a f--k about these white people," Browne Sanders said Thomas told her.




[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:16]

That's why I said I have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it is relevant. In this case it was relevant. But there are constant examples of race being brought out of left field in other situations. I would not be surprised if there are now people on this site that will not criticize marbs or Isiah for fear of being considered racist. After a while it almost seems like a shouting down tactic True or untrue that is beginning to be the perception.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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9/18/2007  4:34 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

I personally have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it's relevant or as a topic starter. But when it's brought up out of left field as it often is, it is annoying as hell.

It's not out of left field in this case. The thread started with this quote:
She also said Thomas rebuffed her March 2004 request that he sign renewal-request letters sent out to past season ticket holders with a pointed shot at loyal Knick fans.
"Bitch, I don't give a f--k about these white people," Browne Sanders said Thomas told her.




[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:16]

That's why I said I have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it is relevant. In this case it was relevant. But there are constant examples of race being brought out of left field in other situations. I would not be surprised if there are now people on this site that will not criticize marbs or Isiah for fear of being considered racist. After a while it almost seems like a shouting down tactic True or untrue that is beginning to be the perception.

That's why this is a tough venue for this type of discussion. We're sports fans and New Yorkers, and we desperately need to criticize the players and management .

Unfortunately, I don't think "race" is ever really out of left field, but it may not be illuminating to bring it up in certain contexts.

At any rate, when I don't like where a thread is going, I usually stop reading it. There are usually plenty of other threads to read. Soon enough we'll be talking mostly about the team and the games again.

Overall, I'm glad UK has diverse posters and that people are willing to try to discuss these difficult issues. Just don't expect me to get involved because, as you know, I don't do "serious."

[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:35]
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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9/18/2007  4:46 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

I personally have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it's relevant or as a topic starter. But when it's brought up out of left field as it often is, it is annoying as hell.

It's not out of left field in this case. The thread started with this quote:
She also said Thomas rebuffed her March 2004 request that he sign renewal-request letters sent out to past season ticket holders with a pointed shot at loyal Knick fans.
"Bitch, I don't give a f--k about these white people," Browne Sanders said Thomas told her.




[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:16]

That's why I said I have no problem with race being brought into a basketball forum if it is relevant. In this case it was relevant. But there are constant examples of race being brought out of left field in other situations. I would not be surprised if there are now people on this site that will not criticize marbs or Isiah for fear of being considered racist. After a while it almost seems like a shouting down tactic True or untrue that is beginning to be the perception.


Unfortunately, I don't think "race" is ever really out of left field, but it may not be illuminating to bring it up in certain contexts.




[Edited by - basketballjones on 09-18-2007 16:35]

I disagree. Let's say David Lee stabs Marbury. IF some white guy comes on calling me a racist for criticizing this action, I'm going to say he brought that out of left field. Clearly I'm black and David Lee is white. We are both of two seperate races. IF the discussion was about the color of our skin then race would be relevant. But when the topic is a stabbing, just because we are two different races does not mean that racism is relevant to the stabbing.

Wow, I just confused myself. I'm going to go get a beer.............Aaaaah, much better. Go Knicks!
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Bippity10
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9/18/2007  4:50 PM
In all seriousness Jones I have a friend back home who I love dearly. But he is one of those guys that brings race into everything. Now, not once have I disagreed with his message. His message is well thought out and on point 99.9% of the time. We are on the same page when it comes to racism. But damnnnnnn I can't hang out with him. I can't take his constant references to race. It's an obsession. Talk about something else. There are a million things to be outraged about. "Take a break" is all I say. His answer is always "take a break? I can't take a break. I'm black I can't take a break from my race". That's normally when I walk away, pop open a beer and reflect on how lucky I am to live the life that I lead.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 18-09-2007 4:51 PM]
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Allanfan20
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9/18/2007  4:52 PM
Bip, I'd have a beer with you and say cheers, but in case you forgot, I am a Celtics fan.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
BasketballJones
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9/18/2007  5:15 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

In all seriousness Jones I have a friend back home who I love dearly. But he is one of those guys that brings race into everything. Now, not once have I disagreed with his message. His message is well thought out and on point 99.9% of the time. We are on the same page when it comes to racism. But damnnnnnn I can't hang out with him. I can't take his constant references to race. It's an obsession. Talk about something else. There are a million things to be outraged about. "Take a break" is all I say. His answer is always "take a break? I can't take a break. I'm black I can't take a break from my race". That's normally when I walk away, pop open a beer and reflect on how lucky I am to live the life that I lead.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 18-09-2007 4:51 PM]

We all need a break sometimes. I know I come here out of an escapist impulse. I don't usually get involved in the serious discussions. The day I come here and find all the threads are about racism, war, and dogfighting is the day I stop coming....

Uh oh...

https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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9/18/2007  5:16 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

In all seriousness Jones I have a friend back home who I love dearly. But he is one of those guys that brings race into everything. Now, not once have I disagreed with his message. His message is well thought out and on point 99.9% of the time. We are on the same page when it comes to racism. But damnnnnnn I can't hang out with him. I can't take his constant references to race. It's an obsession. Talk about something else. There are a million things to be outraged about. "Take a break" is all I say. His answer is always "take a break? I can't take a break. I'm black I can't take a break from my race". That's normally when I walk away, pop open a beer and reflect on how lucky I am to live the life that I lead.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 18-09-2007 4:51 PM]

We all need a break sometimes. I know I come here out of an escapist impulse. I don't usually get involved in the serious discussions. The day I come here and find all the threads are about racism, war, and dogfighting is the day I stop coming....

Uh oh...


I guess this is goodbye
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Papabear
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9/18/2007  9:58 PM
Papabear Says

You guys will sit up here a mis quote Zeke all day long I had to hear the lies the media put out on Zeke. I saw the interview he had with the lawyers. He said He found it more offensive if whites called a black woman a bitch or a black bitch than if a black man said it but he also said it was offensive if a black man said it.He said he would not put up with that kind of talk in any way. Zeke and Marbs grew up in the hip hop era. All the rap songs had nigga this and bitch that. But they were performed by black people. Now think if a white guy came out with a rap song saying nigga this and bitch that!! We'd have a riot!! Why!! Because a white person is saying it. Thats all Zeke was saying. Weather you liked it or not I beleive he told the truth. Look at Ms Brown she lied on her tax returns 4 years straight. We are not talking about a few thousand but lets say about twenty thousand a year. It is rummored that the guy who was let go by the Knicks and was Ms Browns witness did have an affair with her and it will come out real soon. Dolan and Zeke would not come to court without having an ace up thier sleeve.

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arkrud
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9/18/2007  10:16 PM
I started this thread as Isiah start talking.
My point is clear - he is not a good man.
And this is nothing to do with his race.
The way he approaching the race is one of the things which makes him bad person.
There are Knicks fans who consider this irrelevant to basketball but I think that bad person cannot be good coach and good GM.




"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
4949
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9/18/2007  10:19 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

Will we ask for him to be fired even if he gets this team to start winning? I think we'll forget about what a douchebag he is.

Character in the long run counts. He should be let go asap.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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9/18/2007  10:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Let's be honest, none of us know jack shiot about Isiah or Anucha. We can have beliefs on who he is based on 2nd and 3rd hand information. But none of us really has a clue to what type of person he is good or bad.

I expect it from you. How soon we forget.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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9/18/2007  10:28 PM
JOrdan was married for a very long time until they split. It happens.

Isiah got a women pregnant while engaged to his current wife. They got off to a great start!

What are these, some kind of excuses? jordan, the punk who was supposed to have saved basketbell, an icon that was supposed to be looked up to by kids. Just say it 'he fooled around on his wife'. And then' it happend. She threw him out of her life and took the money. Good for her and that piece of **** can go to hell. Isiah belongs in the same cell with him.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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9/18/2007  10:37 PM
Posted by COSSUCKS:
Posted by Bippity10:

Let's be honest, none of us know jack shiot about Isiah or Anucha. We can have beliefs on who he is based on 2nd and 3rd hand information. But none of us really has a clue to what type of person he is good or bad.

Exactly and Isiah doesnt claim to be Mr Rodgers either. He is just denying Annuchas claims. Annucha has a questionable background herself.
I think sexual harrassment in the work place is absolutely disgusting but I do not think saying I love you and what no love today (if these claims are even true) merits her getting the 10 million she is suing for. It looks to me she tried to blackmail Dolan and why she would interject race in to the case is besides me unless she is trying to predjudice the jury or the media. This case has nothing to do with race.

Think about how this sort of thing starts. It usually starts on the male's part. Inapropriate things said and done lead to other things that are not right. it's no crime to sue someone for initiating this thing. That's the way it works. Women, especially educated ones, with degrees (and don't forget, she was a basketball star at Northwestern), it is highly unusual for someone like this to go out of they're way to just make false claims and sue someone, not unless it was initiated. Obviously, if she had been treated with a lot of respect, then she would not have went this far. She obviously has a lot of proof and knows she's out of a job over it, so her best interest is to get what she can out of it, because now she's going to be left with a bad reputation. It will be hard for her to get a job if this is the case. You have to take into consideration these factors also. Isiah should not be allowed to work with women. Not unless she is in a higher position than him. If Isiah loses this case, he is a marked man. No denying that.
I'll never trust this' team again.
misterearl
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9/18/2007  10:45 PM
Some topics are too ucomfortable/painful/revealing to deal with on a daily basis or sometimes even for a moment.

Race is one of them.

Sports are a great diversion and for that we should be thankful for the entertainment factor that the Knicks sometimes provide. For better or worse, for loyal fans, they are our chosen squad - warts and all.

It does not matter when or where race is injected into a conversation of professional basketball. Unlike bippity, or those who would rather just talk "basketball" you cannot isolate the depictions and accounts of a sport dominated by African Americans in a naive-minded vacuum of fair play.

It ain't that kinda party.

If race is too distasteful a topic then leave it alone.

But lets not kid ourselves into thinking that the perception of athletes including (ESPECIALLY) basketball players is shaped by colorblind people. There is no such thing.

Just read the title that started this educational thread



once a knick always a knick
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