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the Renaldo Balkman appreciation thread!
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newyorknewyork
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6/29/2006  7:02 PM
Q.Woods, was supposed to be a lotter pick to.
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Bobby
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6/29/2006  9:44 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

a little blurb from dj's trip to the draft...

with the 15th pick, the new orleans hornets select cedric simmons

"philly's gonna take marcus. they want a pg. it's either him or rondo. i know it."

with the 16th pick, the philadelphia 76ers select rodney carney

"he's going to indy. they like farmar but marcus is better. i know they're gonna take him."

with the 17th pick, the indiana pacers select shawne williams

"wait a second. isn't that who we wanted. wow, does that mean they don't sign peja? but wait...washington? sacramento? holy schnikeys. marcus is gonna drop to us. no way. i can't believe this."

with the 18th pick, the washington wizards select oleksiy percherov

"oh man. one more pick." {the draft crowd starts BUZZING big time.}

with the 19th pick, the sacramento kings select quincy douby

"HOLY SH T." the crowd EXPLODES. "MAR-CUS WIL-LIAMS" clap clap clap clap "MAR-CUS WIL-LIAMS" clap clap clap. "we're gonna take him. i can't believe marcus dropped to us. finally, a pass first pg."

"MAR-CUS WIL-LIAMS" clap clap clap clap clap. 3000 people STRONG chanting this. deafening.

david stern walks out. the crowd goes SILENT.

with the 20th pick of the 2006 draft, the new york knicks select....

the whole theater is STANDING. waiting on every word from stern's mouth...

RENALDO BALKMAN

"BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
"BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
"WHO THE F IS THAT?!?!?!"

"FI-RE THOMAS" clap clap clap clap
"FI-RE THOMAS" clap clap clap clap
"FI-RE THOMAS" clap clap clap clap
"FI-RE THOMAS" clap clap clap clap
"FI-RE THOMAS" clap clap clap clap

the theater was near riot. people to the left of me got up and LEFT the draft b/c they were p ssed.

we all grab our draft booklets to see who this guy is. we all turn the pages, read from top to bottom. we can't find him. HE'S NOT IN THE BOOK!!!

sitting next to me is a season ticket rep. he turns over and says "we just lost thousands of dollars b/c of that pick."

"didn't we have him already? didn't riley bench him in game 7? didn't he used to play with devek harker in dallas?"

"watch him go to the nets. he'll chill behind kidd for 2 years. will develop. you don't think he has a chip on his shoulder like jameer nelson? so when the nets move to brooklyn, he's going to be a thorn in our side for years to come..."

----------------

dj's take: i do not like isiah thomas. BUT if there's one thing i think he's earned, it's the benefit of the doubt in the draft. this kid probably CAN play. i think he'll be a contributor. and he plays defense. isiah said he felt pheonix was going to take him after us. to that, i call BULLSH T. but regardless, he doesn't need to shoot the ball and he plays defense. what we need.

WITH THAT SAID, passing on a guy like marcus williams was still a bad move. not only would he have been our FIRST pass-first guard, he had time to develop. with isiah's one year deadline, #20 and #29 weren't getting major minutes anyway. so why not take the best pg in the draft, the BPA, and let him sit for a year or two and when our glut is cleared, he'll play?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 06-29-2006 01:30 AM]

did you say he's not found in the book from 134 eligibles

if balkman's a sleeper please wake me up



[Edited by - Bobby on 06-29-2006 9:49 PM]
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
PhilinLA
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6/29/2006  11:01 PM
Posted by efw:
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Well we know that Phoenix had no intent on drafting Balkman becuase once Carney was picked at 16, Phoenix was out of the draft. Isiah has lied to the fans yet again.


yeah I kinda believed Isiah lastnight but from everything I've heard today from Phoenix and other GMs Isiah has lied to us yet again UNBELIEVABLE. I REALLY REALLY like Balkman but the thought of drafting Marcus at 20 & Balkman at 29 just depresses the hell out of me.

Is it possible that Mardy Collins turns out to be a better player than Marcus Williams?
maybe even likely.

http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Rich
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6/29/2006  11:38 PM
http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v700506-29-06-1804CDT

[...]
Thomas praised Balkman's energy on the floor, but even Balkman sounded surprised to have heard his name so early on draft night.

"I never thought in a million years I'd be here right now," Balkman said.

Neither did many other experts. Balkman, who averaged 9.6 points last season, didn't even appear in the draft media guide. But Thomas has an answer for those who question the pick.

"Call (Florida coach) Billy Donovan, who won the national championship last year," Thomas said, "and ask him if he's surprised that we would take a guy like Balkman. Because his team beat them twice."
joec32033
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6/29/2006  11:57 PM
Posted by Rich:

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v700506-29-06-1804CDT

[...]
Thomas praised Balkman's energy on the floor, but even Balkman sounded surprised to have heard his name so early on draft night.

"I never thought in a million years I'd be here right now," Balkman said.

Neither did many other experts. Balkman, who averaged 9.6 points last season, didn't even appear in the draft media guide. But Thomas has an answer for those who question the pick.

"Call (Florida coach) Billy Donovan, who won the national championship last year," Thomas said, "and ask him if he's surprised that we would take a guy like Balkman. Because his team beat them twice."

First we take him because PHX was gonna take him (flat out lie), now we take him because he was on a team that beat Florida twice...

Had 14 pts, 6 rebs, 4 assists 2 steals in first game
Had 8 points, 8 rebs, 2 assists, 2 steals and 5 TO second game
Had 12 points, 11 rebs, 1 assist, 2 steals in 3rd game.

He had some big games (the one against Alabama was quite large-28, 16, 4 steals-by far his best game) but mostly average by NBA draft prospect standards.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15457
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nyk4ever
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6/30/2006  12:51 AM
I'll say one thing. Watching this guy on MSG, I really liked him! It will never change the fact that I think the Knicks didn't get value at 20 but he just has a appealing feel to him, the way he looks and talks.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Rich
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6/30/2006  1:31 AM
How much did Rodman weigh when he was drafted?
joec32033
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6/30/2006  9:55 AM
Posted by Rich:

How much did Rodman weigh when he was drafted?

It looks like he was 6-7, 210......his weight went up by his last recorded weight and height he was 6-7, 228.
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BRIGGS
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6/30/2006  10:24 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I'll say one thing. Watching this guy on MSG, I really liked him! It will never change the fact that I think the Knicks didn't get value at 20 but he just has a appealing feel to him, the way he looks and talks.

if you like Trevor Ariza, you will like this kid. They have very similar athletic high flying helter skelter games. Well have to see how he plays against guys lik pierce James etc..who outweigh him considerably, because this player cannot shoot, so he is a liability on the perimeter and in the NBA game, 6-6 205 will have troubles rebounding compared to much smaller CBB players. thats the whole key here SL is nothing---how does this kids game translate in the pro game--well know that next year. Ill stand by my statements that we shouldve taken either Ager or Williams and snagged this kid at 29 if they were despearte because NO team had this kid on their board. the NY POST has a story today that says Phoenix did not have this kid on their board what so ever not even at pick 45. Thats why people are mad--and really its the same joes who like the curry trade at any cost and have no clue about CBB players who defdn this action. and NO Mardy Collins isnt in the same league as either Ager or Williams and that will become apparent next year.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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6/30/2006  10:31 AM
Posted by Rich:

How much did Rodman weigh when he was drafted?

Dennis rodman was a one of a kind player. he played in Div 2 and avg nearly 20 rebounds a game his senior year. every year he played he avgnear 15 rebounds. If I had to guess what Rodman was he was probably 6-8 220, probably listed a tad smaller. He was a high 2nd rounder if I recall
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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6/30/2006  10:39 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

How much did Rodman weigh when he was drafted?

Dennis rodman was a one of a kind player. he played in Div 2 and avg nearly 20 rebounds a game his senior year. every year he played he avgnear 15 rebounds. If I had to guess what Rodman was he was probably 6-8 220, probably listed a tad smaller. He was a high 2nd rounder if I recall

Rodman was definitely 6'7". His college stats are unreal, he averaged like 25ppg and 20rpg his junior year before he left for the draft. He went third overall in the second round. I'm not saying this kid is Rodman either. But this IS the kind of player who can impact the game without scoring. We aren't running the princeton offense, we can afford to have an energy guy out there with Curry/Marbury/Craw/Nate/Frye and maybe even a Francis/QRich still here.
¿ △ ?
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6/30/2006  10:41 AM
Posted by technomaster:

With respect to grabbing a pass-first PG, we have so many NBA PGs on our roster that it's sick (never mind the fact that they're all Shoot First-Shoot Second). With roughly 40 million or so invested in Marbury/Francis/Nate/Crawford, we're seriously committed to trying to make things work for at least 1 of them.

Francis is actually a great combination with any of our other guards-- he's spent his entire college and NBA career playing with trigger happy wingmen that when Mobley was traded from Orlando last year, he didn't know what to do with himself! He'll get the other guard the ball enough for that other player to score 20ppg.

Marbury is exactly the opposite - he probably does best when his SG doesn't play any offense. He has always put up his best numbers when his SG isn't putting up much. If Balkman is truly a part of the plan, then he's suited perfectly for playing w/ Marbs.


One point about Balkman - I don't think it's a bad thing that he never averaged 10ppg. It's almost a good thing-- he's not going to come in thinking that he needs 30 touches and 12 shots per game to be productive. We're talking about a guy who shot nearly 61% from the field. Maybe he'll be along the lines of a Najera, Lynch, or even a Shane Battier in terms of productivity. We were looking for a role player, not a jackpot.

From what I understand, the Knicks got word that Phoenix wanted him, and we know their track record on scouting swingmen... (of course it could have beena smoke screen)

My 2nd point: If Balkman turns into a very good player (12ppg/6rpg/26mpg)... will people still say he's a bad value at #20? Certainly right now people can easily say Marcus Williams was supposed to be a lottery pick, that we could have drafted him then traded down... but sometimes you just have to pick the player you want.

excellent post.

also, it's worth mentioning that a lot of the people who are bashing the Francis trade as Thomas' worst move and blaming Thomas for the pick instead of Brown, etc, started threads here saying we HAD to get Francis, he was a great piece, you move him later. Much like these folks have done about Marcus Williams. Sometimes it really doesn't make sense to overload your roster at one position.
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NYKBocker
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6/30/2006  10:41 AM
I am reading articles/reviews on Balkman and videos on him and somehow I am seeing a young and bigger Spree. I don't see the Rodman comparison too much other than the free spirit comparison. Rodman was an insane rebounder. I think this guy is a bigger Spree circa rookie year.
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6/30/2006  10:49 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Rich:

How much did Rodman weigh when he was drafted?

Dennis rodman was a one of a kind player. he played in Div 2 and avg nearly 20 rebounds a game his senior year. every year he played he avgnear 15 rebounds. If I had to guess what Rodman was he was probably 6-8 220, probably listed a tad smaller. He was a high 2nd rounder if I recall

Rodman was definitely 6'7". His college stats are unreal, he averaged like 25ppg and 20rpg his junior year before he left for the draft. He went third overall in the second round. I'm not saying this kid is Rodman either. But this IS the kind of player who can impact the game without scoring. We aren't running the princeton offense, we can afford to have an energy guy out there with Curry/Marbury/Craw/Nate/Frye and maybe even a Francis/QRich still here.

Rodman averaged 25 points per game?!??!?!
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6/30/2006  1:07 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nyk4ever:

I'll say one thing. Watching this guy on MSG, I really liked him! It will never change the fact that I think the Knicks didn't get value at 20 but he just has a appealing feel to him, the way he looks and talks.

if you like Trevor Ariza, you will like this kid. They have very similar athletic high flying helter skelter games. Well have to see how he plays against guys lik pierce James etc..who outweigh him considerably, because this player cannot shoot, so he is a liability on the perimeter and in the NBA game, 6-6 205 will have troubles rebounding compared to much smaller CBB players. thats the whole key here SL is nothing---how does this kids game translate in the pro game--well know that next year. Ill stand by my statements that we shouldve taken either Ager or Williams and snagged this kid at 29 if they were despearte because NO team had this kid on their board. the NY POST has a story today that says Phoenix did not have this kid on their board what so ever not even at pick 45. Thats why people are mad--and really its the same joes who like the curry trade at any cost and have no clue about CBB players who defdn this action. and NO Mardy Collins isnt in the same league as either Ager or Williams and that will become apparent next year.

I agree 100% Briggs. Well said.
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efw
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6/30/2006  1:51 PM
I need to see Balkman more but I never thought of Trevor as a hustle player ala JYD. He was a super-athletic, extremely raw, potential laden 2 guard. I was rooting for him to fulfill his potential but I don't remember him diving everywhere for loose balls, getting in the middle of every play, etc. And I guess he inspired the team somewhat but he wasn't a game changer. Supposedly that's what Balkman is.

we'll see....
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6/30/2006  7:40 PM
Posted by efw:

I need to see Balkman more but I never thought of Trevor as a hustle player ala JYD. He was a super-athletic, extremely raw, potential laden 2 guard. I was rooting for him to fulfill his potential but I don't remember him diving everywhere for loose balls, getting in the middle of every play, etc. And I guess he inspired the team somewhat but he wasn't a game changer. Supposedly that's what Balkman is.

we'll see....


if we remember trevor ariza back 2 years in that SL, he made a splash by using great hustle, using his athletsicm and length to score easy baskets rebound get in passing lanes bring energy this kid will do that thats his skills. there is no doubt in my mind that he SHOULD make an impact at SL in someway show some signs--will this translate to the bigger faster stronger guys in the nBA--thats the $ question and thats why he shouldve been picked in rd 2 but ad naseum to that.

there are a lot of similarities to the players, the hope here is that 3 yrs of school have developed balkmans mentality and game to the point where he can just enhance it, unlike ariza who appeared bent on changing what he did so well.
RIP Crushalot😞
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6/30/2006  8:28 PM
https:// It's not so hard.
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6/30/2006  9:20 PM
Posted by technomaster:

With respect to grabbing a pass-first PG, we have so many NBA PGs on our roster that it's sick (never mind the fact that they're all Shoot First-Shoot Second). With roughly 40 million or so invested in Marbury/Francis/Nate/Crawford, we're seriously committed to trying to make things work for at least 1 of them.

Francis is actually a great combination with any of our other guards-- he's spent his entire college and NBA career playing with trigger happy wingmen that when Mobley was traded from Orlando last year, he didn't know what to do with himself! He'll get the other guard the ball enough for that other player to score 20ppg.

Marbury is exactly the opposite - he probably does best when his SG doesn't play any offense. He has always put up his best numbers when his SG isn't putting up much. If Balkman is truly a part of the plan, then he's suited perfectly for playing w/ Marbs.


One point about Balkman - I don't think it's a bad thing that he never averaged 10ppg. It's almost a good thing-- he's not going to come in thinking that he needs 30 touches and 12 shots per game to be productive. We're talking about a guy who shot nearly 61% from the field. Maybe he'll be along the lines of a Najera, Lynch, or even a Shane Battier in terms of productivity. We were looking for a role player, not a jackpot.

From what I understand, the Knicks got word that Phoenix wanted him, and we know their track record on scouting swingmen... (of course it could have beena smoke screen)

My 2nd point: If Balkman turns into a very good player (12ppg/6rpg/26mpg)... will people still say he's a bad value at #20? Certainly right now people can easily say Marcus Williams was supposed to be a lottery pick, that we could have drafted him then traded down... but sometimes you just have to pick the player you want.


You could argue that even if he becomes a good player it was a bad pick - because you probably could have traded pick 20 for a second round pick + another pick (this year or in the future) and still have selected the same player. The art of drafting involves evaluating players, knowing what you need and having a sense of what other teams are thinking. I think it's likely Isiah was wrong about the third - we'll have to see about the others.
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6/30/2006  9:48 PM
I think it's likely Isiah was wrong about the third - we'll have to see about the others.
I think it's likely that no poster here has any clue at all about whether Isiah was right or wrong on that point.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06-30-2006 11:23 PM]
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