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Knicks Fire Brown
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nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  12:41 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:


I'd agree with that. Playing lousy players ahead of Frye certainly looked like it hurt his confidence, especially on jumpshots. I think you'll see Isiah play on those who play hard. No more DNP-CDs for guys like Nate and David Lee. That's the hope at least. The organization is still screwed, though, but at least we get a little enjoyment out of seeing Brown get what he deserved.

Channing Frye averaged 24mpg a game last year as a rookie. How many friggen minutes is he supposed to get?


Bro the minutes wer inconsistant as you could have them...most people come in at a set time in the game...You had no idea when the Kid would be playing or if he would play at all...The stats don't tell the entire story...




Your right, stats don't tell the whole story. Just like Marburys 20 and 8 don't tell the story. Thanks for finally agreeing with me on that.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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holfresh
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6/22/2006  12:43 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by buddapaw:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Link

See how the rest of the country feels about what transpired and they aren't swayed by favorites.

And this proves what?

It's quite interesting.


Why is it interesting...Most of those people has not seen an entire Knick game all year...
nyk4ever
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6/22/2006  12:44 PM
Posted by holfresh:


Why is it interesting...Most of those people has not seen an entire Knick game all year...


Did they have too? When you see the players that are on this team and look at their pasts you didn't have to watch one game to know what was going to happen.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-22-2006 12:44 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
holfresh
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6/22/2006  12:44 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:


I'd agree with that. Playing lousy players ahead of Frye certainly looked like it hurt his confidence, especially on jumpshots. I think you'll see Isiah play on those who play hard. No more DNP-CDs for guys like Nate and David Lee. That's the hope at least. The organization is still screwed, though, but at least we get a little enjoyment out of seeing Brown get what he deserved.

Channing Frye averaged 24mpg a game last year as a rookie. How many friggen minutes is he supposed to get?


Bro the minutes wer inconsistant as you could have them...most people come in at a set time in the game...You had no idea when the Kid would be playing or if he would play at all...The stats don't tell the entire story...




Your right, stats don't tell the whole story. Just like Marburys 20 and 8 don't tell the story. Thanks for finally agreeing with me on that.



HAhahaha...Not even you can bring me down today...
Pharzeone
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6/22/2006  12:45 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

The Knicks would be in a much better position if Larry Brown was both coach and gm.

Please support. Because at all his stops but Indiana, where he had significant influence with Walsh was Brown given an opportunity to be a GM. King and Croce were both quoted as saying that Brown would make a horrible GM because he is too emotional. If a guy doesn't pass the ball to the open man in one game, Brown would ask for him to be traded. Brown's trade requests are a who's who of basketball personalities.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  12:45 PM
Hey, the year before with less talent we won 33 games, last year was a new coach, hence your 23 wins.

Take LB from the coaches name and he's fired.

This team had 3 rookies and 3 new starters (4 if you count LB benching Crawford for the first game and frye in a suit, our effing lotto pick for pete's sake)

I expect to not win the division, but I did not expect 23 wins, if anybody can say they honestly felt we were and still are a 23 win team isn't watching the games and knows nothing about the knicks.

Sorry bip, you can start to change your tone as you realize fish and isles are probably busy at work and can't come to your bashing defense, but you came into this post questioning our ability to compete next year and I'm just calling a spade a spade.

IMHO, you hope the knicks fail next season so Zeke can be fired.
Posted by Bippity10:


Maybe my standards are higher than some but when they win 23 out of 82 games I call that crap.

all kool aid all the time.
buddapaw
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6/22/2006  12:45 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by holfresh:


Why is it interesting...Most of those people has not seen an entire Knick game all year...


Did they have too? When you see the players that are on this team and look at their pasts you didn't have to watch one game to know what was going to happen.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-22-2006 12:44 PM]


I think the same can be said about the now previous head coach although it progressed faster than usual.
"Low Percentage Shots r US, these are our Knicks" "NY KNICKS the cure for basketball fanatic"
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  12:48 PM
He also recorded a bunch of DNP CD, started the season in a suit and had his confidence in his jumper shattered not by oppossing defenses, but by his coach.

Playing 30 minutes after being down by 20 in the first quarter means jack, nyk4ever, did you even watch the games last year or are you trying to act like you did by cutting and pasting stats from espn.com?

There are lies, damn lies and statistics. MPG for Frye is a damn lie.

Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by Bonn1997:


I'd agree with that. Playing lousy players ahead of Frye certainly looked like it hurt his confidence, especially on jumpshots. I think you'll see Isiah play on those who play hard. No more DNP-CDs for guys like Nate and David Lee. That's the hope at least. The organization is still screwed, though, but at least we get a little enjoyment out of seeing Brown get what he deserved.

Channing Frye averaged 24mpg a game last year as a rookie. How many friggen minutes is he supposed to get?

all kool aid all the time.
DarkKnicks
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6/22/2006  12:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Isiah first starting lineup
C Jerome James
F Mo Taylor
F Malik Rose
G Q Rich
G Marbury

These ARE YOUR NY Knicks!
Nah, BRIGGS, you know this was Larry's team.

Isiah team will be

Curry
Frye
Woods
¿¿??
Marbury
gr33d
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6/22/2006  12:50 PM
Is it cool to cut and paste Insider articles?
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Bippity10
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6/22/2006  12:51 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Bip, it's been 2.5 years and we've never had this much youth on our team.

So, to keep closing your eyes to players like the three rookies we had last year (two of which were 4 year seniors) and the non Starphucking acquisitions like Qwoods and Curry and JackieB and keep harping on the fact that we fired a 23 win coach is not seeing the forest for the trees...if his name isn't larry brown, he gets fired.

We have youth and a future...if you don't want to see it, so be it...but I'm calling you on it when you start to bash my favorite NBA team.

sorry, i'm just a fan defending my team.

Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by rvhoss:

Exactly, browns' way would have been another 23 win season or two...you think brown would have stayed around for it to get better? I mean, do you think he was really going to stay around for 4 years?
Posted by Rich:

SAS: Dolan wanted to fix this mess, and Larry wanted Steph, Francis, and Rose to go. (Two of which he wanted).


Rvhoss: Who am I bashing in that post? Zeke or management? Do you know the answer to that question? My issue is with an organization that continues to bring in the same type of players year after year and then fires the coach when they can't GET THROUGH TO THEM. So my question to you is this. Let's play devil's advocate. I call it thinking about a plan and preparing for something that could happen(you call it bashing???) but allow me to ask the question anyway. What if(notice I said what if, didn't say it will happen) Isiah struggles to get through to the players. What's the plan at that point? What would you do as GM if that was the case.


rvhoss: I'm going to try to have an intelligent conversation with you(which is probably impossible because I am such a Knick basher). I love the young players. I know you don't follow my posts(this much is obvious) I have said many times that the young guys are the only guys that get a pass from me. I have several times in the past week stated that I just pray that we don't jettison the young guys in order to save a coach. Now my issue is not with them. My issue is with the organization(not sure how anyone misses this with me, I type it in every post. I either am a poor writer, those that do this have nothing better to do but flame, or they can't read. We'll just say I am a poor writer and need to say it more. My issue is with us placing another coach(Isiah now) in position to get rid of a young guy in order to save his job if a veteran big man is available. Now if you read thoroughly I did not say this will happen, or that Isiah is a jerk and will do this, I simply said I hate to see our organization put the coach/GM in this position.

Now I read this post many times. Not sure how it supports LB. Not sure how it bashes the young guys. Not sure how it bashes Isiah. Not sure how asking for a change means I hate the Knicks and that they all suck. But I'm sure someone will explain it to me.

Last year we won 23 games. We have good young players. For them to succeed we will need to make changes to the roster to help them succeed. Every organization in sports tries to make changes to help better the team. Especially those that won 23 games. A magical coach(Isiah) is not all we need to make it to the finals. Saying we are getting younger is a nice start but not a plan. If you are getting younger it means obtaining draft picks, it means acquiring vets that can mentor them. It means finding players that compliment each other. When I look at the roster the only compliments I see are Frye and Curry. But since neither is a great rebounder I think it's obvious we need a SF that is a tough rebounder(probably why we are trying to change Lee to SF). Ooops, I guess I said Frye and Curry are not great rebounders that must mean I hate the Knicks.
I just hope that people will like me
buddapaw
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6/22/2006  12:51 PM
Posted by gr33d:

Is it cool to cut and paste Insider articles?

Just do it, do it
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rvhoss
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6/22/2006  12:51 PM
You're kidding right?
Posted by McK1:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Link

See how the rest of the country feels about what transpired and they aren't swayed by favorites.

the people have spoken

all kool aid all the time.
OngBok
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6/22/2006  12:52 PM
yes, gr33d
Isiah Thomas will lead us back to the playoffs in 2006 !!!
martin
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6/22/2006  12:52 PM
Posted by gr33d:

Is it cool to cut and paste Insider articles?

yes
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Pharzeone
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6/22/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

It's ironic because if you take Curry out of the mix the guys you listed were the only guys to play hard for Larry all year long. Don't remember Larry bashing that group.

Then you have memory problems, my friend. Brown bashed all of them. Nate being the worst of the bunch. He bashed Frye for his defense, not boxing out, and question his where is mind is on the court after a loss in December. Frye was stunned by that last one, I remember it well because it was the only time I ever saw Frye take a jab at Brown when he said he has no idea what role is playing sometimes. For whatever reason Lee said in Brown's doghouse for the beginning of the season.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
gr33d
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6/22/2006  12:53 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by gr33d:

Is it cool to cut and paste Insider articles?

yes

Cool, just checking..

From Chris Sheridan:

Memo to Isiah Thomas: You're next. The next one to get fired, that is, if you can't turn around the New York Knicks next season.

Team owner Jim Dolan got rid of one problem and set himself up to dispose of another Thursday when he finally dropped the axe on Larry Brown, firing the coach following a meeting between himself, Brown, Thomas and Madison Square Garden president Steve Mills.

The Knicks fired Brown while he still had a reported four years and $40 million left on his contract, and no financial settlement was reached. ESPN.com has learned that a clause in Brown's contract designates NBA commissioner David Stern as the arbitrator of any financial dispute between the sides, meaning the final act of this drama has yet to play out.

Going into this morning's meeting, Dolan was actually prepared to retain Brown as coach despite the organization's silence over the past month after it was first reported that Brown was on his way out and Thomas would replace him, but the owner did not receive the assurances he wanted from Brown that he would change his ways in the upcoming season.


One of the unreported details of how the rift between Thomas and Brown grew last season was that Thomas felt he was being undermined by Brown in trade talks when the coach would call people he knew on teams the Knicks were speaking with and would propose trades of his own.

Dolan also was angered by Brown's repeated targeting of many of his players through the media. Brown's biggest target was Stephon Marbury, with whom he first clashed in 2004 when the two were together on the U.S. Olympic team that lost three times in Athens and finished a disappointing third. Their relationship never improved much during Brown's one season with the Knicks, and the team felt in the end it would be better to proceed forward without Brown rather than without Marbury.

Thomas told Dolan following season-ending interviews with players that several of them had expressed their desire to have Thomas coach them. Dolan has been patient with Thomas since hiring him 2½ years ago as team president, but he clearly will not tolerate another season like last one when the Knicks won just 23 games despite a league-high payroll of $125 million.

Thomas is responsible for bringing in all the players who have bloated that payroll, and the owner is now essentially telling Thomas: "You made this mess, now go fix it." It might be Thomas' last chance in the NBA, where his track record -- both as coach of the Indiana Pacers, where he was 131-115 in the regular season and 5-10 in the playoffs from 2000-01 to 2002-03, and part-owner and general manager of the Toronto Raptors from 1994-97 -- has been spotty. Thomas also owned the minor-league Continental Basketball Association from 1999-2000 and was widely blamed for its demise.

The ouster of Brown should lead to less of a roster overhaul than what had been expected from the Knicks this summer, though Thomas is willing to move Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford or Quentin Richardson to unclog the logjam at shooting guard and would love to find a taker for center Jerome James, who signed for the Knicks' entire mid-level exception last summer and was a bust.

Thomas also is willing to trade the expiring contracts of Jalen Rose and Maurice Taylor, whose value will likely peak at next season's trade deadline when teams will be looking to clear salary cap space for the summer of 2007.

Brown's future is unclear, and having his dispute with the Knicks go to arbitration will likely keep him from committing to a future employer. There are currently no head coaching vacancies in the NBA, though there has been speculation that Brown could possibly surface in Golden State, where he is friends with owner Chris Cohan, or in Charlotte, where his North Carolina connections might possibly endear him to incoming co-owner Michael Jordan.

Warriors general manager Chris Mullin has dismissed talk of Brown possibly replacing Mike Montgomery as coach, and Jordan and Brown might be a difficult fit, just as Thomas and Brown proved to be.

Now the Knicks are Thomas' problem and his alone, and if he can't fix things, he'll be the next to go.


"If you ain't first, you're last" - Ricky Bobby
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  12:54 PM
Curry is not a "post up center"

He's an athletic alley ooping scoring machine that requires double teaming.

Like I said, you see what you want to see, I see a truly athletic running team that can play defense. It's just a different type of defense...it's a long fill the passing lane defense as opposed to a man for man grind it out defense.

But it's been 2.5 years, by the end of this year, we'll have those defenders in place.

But hey, I'm a fan, what do I know...and you keep saying LB obsessed? the fact that you think the world is ending the day LB gets fired kind of tells me who has the obsession.

There is a theory, people describe other people the way they perceive themselves.

I see you as a frustrated knick fan, you see me as LB obsessed.
Posted by Bippity10:

Bonn: It's crappy everything. Once again another guy obsessed with LB. Eveyrone sucked. Everyone. Bonn and the rest of the LB obsessed everyone sucked. LB sucked the players sucked the GM sucked the owner is a moron. I don't support any of them. I do support the Knicks getting a plan and making me feel better because we make concrete steps instead of feeling better every offseason because "we finally fired the guy that made us bad"

We won 23 games, changes need to be made. I don't care if Zeke is coach. I don't care if Marbs or Francis or Jalen or Mo or any of the rest are here or not. But whoever is here needs to fit into a plan. If you want hard nosed players get hard nosed players. If you want to run, get players taht run and work hard. If you are a running team don't build around a post up center. If you have a post up center get some jumpshooters. If you have a scoring PG, get a creative shooting guard. Show a coherent plan and at that point the record is not as important.

all kool aid all the time.
nixluva
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6/22/2006  12:56 PM
The Times is reporting that the Knicks don't intend to pay Brown his $40mil. They say he breached contract and they fired him "for cause"

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/22/sports/basketball/22cnd-knicks.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
rvhoss
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6/22/2006  12:56 PM
Funny, seriously, though I think it's going to be:
C Curry
F Frye
F Qrich (if he's not traded)
G Crawford
G Marbury (with marbury playing off the ball a ton and craw handling the rock)
Posted by BRIGGS:

Isiah first starting lineup
C Jerome James
F Mo Taylor
F Malik Rose
G Q Rich
G Marbury

These ARE YOUR NY Knicks!

all kool aid all the time.
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