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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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boomann
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12/30/2005  2:01 PM
But really Isiah has been playing the good salesman since he inherited this squad. At this point in his tenure as knicks GM he has done two quality things in my opinon.

1. He has effectively turned this team into a younger and more coachable squad with 9 players being under the age of 25. These players will have to learn how to play the game faster then most rookies because they play in a fickle city where people want to see results yesterday

2. He's hired the best teaching coach that the game has seen. This is not my opinon because most of the gm's in the league will tell you the same exact thing. Larry Brown will make younger players into good ball players it just might take time with this squad.

The signing's of James and the trade for MO T are the two moves that stick out in my mind as parallel moves but, Moochie would still be playing for us because his contract dosen't end until next year. I'd rather have Mo than Moochie all year round. James made sense at the time because the Knicks had nobody in the middle but as Nolad always states Hindsight is a female dog.
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
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islesfan
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12/30/2005  2:03 PM
Posted by boomann:

You just did

So you admit to being a mental patient? Nice. Do you watch the Knicks in a rubber room with a straight jacket on? Come to think of it, that might just be the perfect place to watch this team.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  2:10 PM
Ya but Boo, Isiah took what Layden did.....

AND MADE IT WORSE.

At what expense do you make a team younger and more athletic if A.) It makes us even MORE unflexible cap-wise and B.) we're still losing.

???

Isiah bringing in Marbury I can live with. A failed experiment. But he's made 1 mistake too many.

Malik Rose -- we lost 20 million dollars longterm and our starting C
Jerome James -- dont get me started

And I'm being generous, b/c alot of people would jump the gun and call the Crawford and Curry trades as busts...

Fact of the matter is, he got too impatient, too trigger happy. He made changes just for the sake of making changes. He didn't have a set longterm game plan. He tried to come in like a lion, and throw his weight around from the start.

I mean cmon, he got rid of EVERY Layden player. This guys is a ego-maniac. It had to be HIS team in every sense of the word. Funny how an ex-Bad Boy built this team all on offense, potential, and athleticism instead of heart, leadership, and defense.

Way to go Isiah!

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-30-2005 2:13 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
jaydh
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12/30/2005  2:18 PM
Posted by bobs3304:

Ya but Boo, Isiah took what Layden did.....

AND MADE IT WORSE.

At what expense do you make a team younger and more athletic if A.) It makes us even MORE unflexible cap-wise and B.) we're still losing.

???

Isiah bringing in Marbury I can live with. A failed experiment. But he's made 1 mistake too many.

Malik Rose -- we lost 20 million dollars longterm and our starting C
Jerome James -- dont get me started

And I'm being generous, b/c alot of people would jump the gun and call the Crawford and Curry trades as busts...


A) how did he makes us more unflexible? if you are over the cap, you are over the cap. if AD&penny walk, isiah has lessened our cap

B)patience

the malik deal was good in that we got 2 1st round draft picks for Nazr.
JJ - who was going to start at center? MoT? Rose?

We didnt give up anything important to get crawford. JC is getting better under LB, i dont know how that deal can be a bust. the Curry deal, i dont mind giving up 1 1st round pick for him, we didnt lose anything else of significance in that deal.
boomann
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12/30/2005  2:21 PM
Malik Rose -- we lost 20 million dollars longterm and our starting C
Jerome James -- dont get me started

And I'm being generous, b/c alot of people would jump the gun and call the Crawford and Curry trades as busts...

Nazr will never ever score 29 points as my man Curry accomplished the other night. Nazr was not a beast in the middle contrary to some people belief's.

The Malik Rose trade also got us the one asset Isiah works magic with and that's draft picks. Two of them to be exact one that has gotten us team mascot David Lee. Now would you rather have Nazr back or Eddy, Lee and whoever Isiah gets next year.

Jerome James was a mistake that he won't be able to live down, but he is not the only GM who has made a fatal mistake with a big man. Adonal Foyle and Erik Dampier both have insane to the membrane contracts without the production to back it up. I feel as if Isiah was following the status quo on this move and it turned and bit him in the arse. Cuban, Mullin and a couple of other GM's made the same move but thier fans don't go krazy and say get those dudes outta here they are ruining our team.

Losing or Learning? Are they really losing if the coach is not putting the best players on the floor or is he teaching a year round lesson to some of the youngins. I honestly think LB is doing more teaching then he's had to do and he is really enjoying switching the lineups so he can learn more about the players.

The people calling the Crawford and Curry deal busts are just silly goats. I guess they would rather have fugzay, Sweets, Frank willams, Othella and Mutumbo tearing up the garden instead of two young guys still getting chemistry with a whole new squad.

I believe in Zeke's plan and I think LB will have these dudes playing winning ball before the season is over.



[Edited by - boomann on 12-30-2005 2:23 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
newyorknewyork
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12/30/2005  2:25 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

So Marbs has hurt you personally and you are now angry with him?

I remember TT saying he was going to take boxing lessons and become mean. I knew he would not be a ferocious player so when he didn't become one I was not angry. He is who he is regardless of what he says. I have a 2guard on my rec league team that tells everyone how he is going to light it up that night. Then he goes 1-10 and we win the game and then joke about how he said he was going to light it up. Who cares.

If we as an organization are more focused upon building around Marbury because he said he is a franchise player instead of finding someone who is and then putting Marbs in a suitable role. Or trading him for scraps because he did not uphold his promise and we are oh so baby sad, then we are an awful organization. Oh wait...............

Bip ive been saying the same thing for while now. But you definatly make it more clear then me. Like I said earlier. We didn't even sign Marbury as a free agent. We traded for him and his contract. He doesn't make 20mil yet anyway he hasn't reached that part of his contract, but that max contract was his deal with the Suns organization. He was thrown in a transitional period of the Knicks organization. But yet he is bashed because he doesn't overcome all the problems with the Knicks and lead us to the top by himself. But again if Houston was healthy we would be a different team. I can't even blame Isiah for taking that type of chance for Houston. When Houston came back last season for the short spurt before Crawford went down(the last time we were actually winning). Marbury-Houston-Crawford-TT combined for like 70pts. 70pts between players. And that was Houston at like 85%. Houston's go to scoring ability would make all these pieces fit work right now.

We should have retooled way better then we did the yr we traded Ewing. Ewing and Dudley were going to cut us about 30mil. We had Houston-Spree-Camby already. IF we could have just let Ewing & Dudley come off the cap. And if we would have just kept our draft picks at that time. We would be in a way better position right now. And the Ewing trade wasn't even the Killer. The Killer was Rice for Anderson, Bogues for Eisley, Childs and draftpick for Jax. Spoon for full Midlevel. Which isiah did top by signing James. At least Rose got us 2 draft picks. And while Taylor trade was bad also he only has 1yr left after this one. While Anderson, Eisley, Spoon were signed for like 6yrs each. We should have also made moves to get in better position in the lottery the yr Lebron was coming out. And we also should have never traded #7 lottery pick & Camby for Dice. Should have traded either camby or #7 but not both. As a matter of fact Dice missed 2 season prior so we should have been offering even less. Those were 3 very great opportunities(Ewing, Kwame draft, Lebron draft) for Layden to keep the Knicks at a high level and hurt us bigtime.

Marbury shouldn't get a free pass though because this season a lot of games he hasn't brought that sense of urgency. At least if he showed that and still failed he wouldn't be bashed as much. But he shouldn't get bashed as much as he does.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  2:27 PM
Point is Isiah threw away assets like candy.

Nazr wasn't perfect, but he was a defensively capable Center who could've been a good trade asset.

We also took on alot of salary for a role player and 2 very late 1st rounders.

The Mo Taylor trade was awful b/c we didn't even need a PF, regardless of what anyone thinks, we gave up another asset (draft pick), and again.....took on more salary.

If you're a good GM, you don't take on longterm salary like that unless it's for an impact player (like GS trading for B-Dizzle).

Isiah is far and away a bad GM. I don't care how many positives you dig for, b/c they don't justify the negatives.

And oh mamamia, there are ALOT of negatives. When you're so far over the cap like we WERE.....and then you add 30 Million dollars to that, and on top of it, STILL SUCK.......then you know you're just plain bad.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Nalod
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12/30/2005  2:32 PM
SLAP!

Look what this has reduced us to!

Arguing Blame!

Passion and heart is sucked out because they are tentitive and unsure of themselves. A team knows each other, our 16 different lineups don't help AND (its a big AND by the way) is we have 2 centers in and out of the lines, And (an even bigger one) we have players in different roles. Some nites marbs gonna take 25 shots, some nites he is nasty scowl boy, another he is gonna run the offense, and then yet on a different nite our "Sybil" is gonna communicate and encourage his mates. Im sure the last one is really effective genuine kinda of talk!

So our guys are all in a state of flux, and learing a new system for some unlike any they have been a part of.

ANd, once the meat market opens up we can begin to tweek the squad into one that can be more productive.

I think if you have half the team under the age of 23 you have some decent upside. Frye already showed some real good upside, and You got a peak into what Curry is able to do.

Some men see Curry's 29 points and see him only getting hurt. I see what can be. He has a live in Chef, is learning how to eat. He will get in shape, and he has more upside than Gay-Morrison-or Aldridge.

I see improvements in some areas, but our defense has yet to gel.

Blame all the above mentioned in the arguements. Its all true. Every one of them!
djsunyc
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12/30/2005  2:32 PM
one thing about nazr that alot of you are forgetting that is IF we still had nazr this summer...an EXPIRING deal, we probalby would've gotten curry for nazr + sweetney straight up. no need to include all those draft picks or anything. chicago is actually looking at nazr this upcoming summer so there would've been interest. then, we still would've had tim (in a contract year) and more importantly, our #1 this year (most likely).

whenever you trade a moderate deal for a decent player a year too early, you're not maximizing the return value.
FireIsiah
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12/30/2005  2:35 PM
Curry has upside based on that contract he signed, he better become a dominant player. If not i would rather have Gay-Morrison-or Aldridge for the next 3-4 years at rookie salaries.
I want to leave something that's going to stand for a long timeI want to leave a legacy,I want to leave tradition.I want to leave an imprint,a blueprint in terms of how people play,and how they coach and how they respond when they put on the Knick uni.
boomann
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12/30/2005  2:38 PM
Nazr wasn't perfect, but he was a defensively capable Center who could've been a good trade asset.

We also took on alot of salary for a role player and 2 very late 1st rounders.

So two first round draft picks and a established vet is not what people consider assets these days? So what is an asset?

The Mo Taylor trade was awful b/c we didn't even need a PF, regardless of what anyone thinks, we gave up another asset (draft pick), and again.....took on more salary.

So what exactly were Vin Baker and Moochie Norris doing to stay on the team. Mo T has more talent then both of them dudes in his pinky toe. Salary smalary we have been over the cap for years and that is not going to change. He tried to make something happen which was revive Mo T's carrer but the plan failed. Have you ever failed at anything bobs?

If you're a good GM, you don't take on longterm salary like that unless it's for an impact player (like GS trading for B-Dizzle).

Isiah is far and away a bad GM. I don't care how many positives you dig for, b/c they don't justify the negatives.

And oh mamamia, there are ALOT of negatives. When you're so far over the cap like we WERE.....and then you add 30 Million dollars to that, and on top of it, STILL SUCK.......then you know you're just plain bad.

That's your opinon and I respec that but, it dosen't make what you say true. Curry, Jamal, Nate, Frye, Lee, Ariza, Butler, Kelly Tripucka-scouting and Larry Brown were all good moves to me

MO and JJ were his two most unforgivable moves but forgiveness is divine

Steph and Q still have something to prove and I'm hoping they will since I'm more fan than critic. But to each his own bobs i was just stating my opinon. peace



"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
FireIsiah
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12/30/2005  2:38 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

one thing about nazr that alot of you are forgetting that is IF we still had nazr this summer...an EXPIRING deal, we probalby would've gotten curry for nazr + sweetney straight up. no need to include all those draft picks or anything. chicago is actually looking at nazr this upcoming summer so there would've been interest. then, we still would've had tim (in a contract year) and more importantly, our #1 this year (most likely).

whenever you trade a moderate deal for a decent player a year too early, you're not maximizing the return value.

The ball was in our court with the Curry trade. The Bulls didnt want to resign him b/c of his heart problems and we still took on AD's contract and threw in a 1st rounder.

I want to leave something that's going to stand for a long timeI want to leave a legacy,I want to leave tradition.I want to leave an imprint,a blueprint in terms of how people play,and how they coach and how they respond when they put on the Knick uni.
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  3:03 PM
Cmon Boo.

You're trying to justify irresponsible spending like it's no big deal.

That's a SOFT arguement man. It's 1 thing to spend money to get noticeably better.

It's another thing to spend money to get marginally better talent. That Malik trade was horrible b/c we added longterm salary and only got VERY LATE 1st rounders. San Antonio knew what they were doing. They cut salary and added size.

Isiah traded big for small. Wow.....how can you overlook that. He traded our starting Center for basically draft picks b/c he knew that was his specialty, not b/c it was actually a good move for the team. He wanted to take advantage of his only strength as a GM. That in and of itself shows how he's a selfish, egotistical fathead that turns a blind eye to what we REALLY need.

The only trade I personally liked wasthe Nazr/TT for Van Horn/Doleac/Pick b/c it added talent and trade assets without having to add that much salary. However even then, it didn't follow a rigid longterm plan.

Random trades.....that's Isiah's strength. He likes a player -- he trades for him. Doesn't mean its good for the franchise.....he's so unpredictable, flippant, and unreliable.




[Edited by - bobs3304 on 12-30-2005 3:07 PM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
Bonn1997
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12/30/2005  3:31 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

one thing about nazr that alot of you are forgetting that is IF we still had nazr this summer...an EXPIRING deal, we probalby would've gotten curry for nazr + sweetney straight up. no need to include all those draft picks or anything. chicago is actually looking at nazr this upcoming summer so there would've been interest. then, we still would've had tim (in a contract year) and more importantly, our #1 this year (most likely).

whenever you trade a moderate deal for a decent player a year too early, you're not maximizing the return value.

So Chicago would have had an equal degree of interest in a deal involving Nazy as in a deal involving TT's expiring contract and 2 potential lottery picks? I don't buy it. I can't see how Nazy could replace potential lottery picks from their perspective. I think they would have still wanted the picks.
boomann
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12/30/2005  4:04 PM
Cmon Boo.
You're trying to justify irresponsible spending like it's no big deal.

That's a SOFT arguement man. It's 1 thing to spend money to get noticeably better.

It's another thing to spend money to get marginally better talent. That Malik trade was horrible b/c we added longterm salary and only got VERY LATE 1st rounders. San Antonio knew what they were doing. They cut salary and added size.

Isiah traded big for small. Wow.....how can you overlook that. He traded our starting Center for basically draft picks b/c he knew that was his specialty, not b/c it was actually a good move for the team. He wanted to take advantage of his only strength as a GM. That in and of itself shows how he's a selfish, egotistical fathead that turns a blind eye to what we REALLY need.

The only trade I personally liked wasthe Nazr/TT for Van Horn/Doleac/Pick b/c it added talent and trade assets without having to add that much salary. However even then, it didn't follow a rigid longterm plan.

Random trades.....that's Isiah's strength. He likes a player -- he trades for him. Doesn't mean its good for the franchise.....he's so unpredictable, flippant, and unreliable.

Blah blah blah blah....wait did you just call me soft! blah blah blah blah blah
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
bigbeast
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12/30/2005  4:24 PM
Everyone keeps saying we gave up nothing to get Crawford and Marbury. But ask yourself, why did these teams give these players away for nothing? These teams realized they weren't winning players for them and got rid of them to slice salaries. Phoenix gets rid of Marbury, and that frees them up to get Nash, resign Amare and get the best record in the league. When craw was in Chicago, they weren't winning, they dumped him, next year not only do they make the playoffs, now they have money under the cap this summer to sign Harrington if he so chooses.

Trading Nazr for Malik and 2 late first rounders (hell, mind as well called them second rounders there so late) was a great move for Spurs. Gave them the size they needed to go with Duncan

Bottom line, all of these Moves Isiah has made has benefited the OTHER TEAMS tremendously. According to our record right now, it has made us worse.

By the way, I love getting Curry, when Isiah is long gone, he will be credited at least fro bringing us a dominant big man, (I think he can become that) but for the life of me, I still can't understand why that pick couldn't be lottery protected. Then give them out pick again in 07 when Curry had no other suiters......
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
boomann
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12/30/2005  4:36 PM
You guys talk but all I hear is WAAAAAAA



Stop crying and watch these boys as they get better and better.

[Edited by - boomann on 12-30-2005 4:36 PM]
"We need another shot blocker and we need more girth in the middle, once that happens we have a chance to be a pretty decent team" Isiah on draft night
bigbeast
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12/30/2005  4:42 PM
Get better? Can't get any worse, can it?
"Man, who knows with this team." Aguirre.
islesfan
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12/30/2005  4:45 PM
I think he means get better for the Bulls.

I really don't need to see your disturbing baby pictures Boo. Although it does explain a lot.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
bobs3304
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12/30/2005  4:57 PM
Posted by boomann:

Blah blah blah blah....wait did you just call me soft! blah blah blah blah blah

Nice response....



DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
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What exactly has Isiah done as an executive anywhere
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