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OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact
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nyvector16
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9/2/2005  5:50 PM
It is sooo like these ultra Right-Wingers to say anyone who is critical of this Administration... is just Bush bashing... and are demonizing him... when all people are trying to do is state the facts... no partisan spin.. just facts...
But Facts are not facts to them unless they hear it on Fox News first...
My sweet Neo-Cons... Take the blinders off and make some matter of fact opinions based on the reality of the world.. Not some spin.. It's obvious how bad this situation is.. .and we as AMERICANS.. are saying.. We have Always done better than this...
When LA was devastated by the Earthquake... our government responded...
Even when the Rodney King Riots broke out.. our Government responded...
Add this administration's reaction to the fact that they were directly responsible for stopping research for strengthening the very levees that burst, and it's obvious.... They made mistakes...
They are not above anyone... they make mistakes jsut like any other administration..
The difference is they DO NOT own up to theirs... they spin... and spin some more.. and blame circumstance or whatever else is convenient...

I hope someone questions Bush about his actions before this tragedy...
We'll see how the voice on the other end of his earpiece spins it...
AUTOADVERT
Rich
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9/2/2005  7:51 PM
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, the war in Iraq is part of the problem in New Orleans. "The Boston Globe" reporting today that National Guard units across the country have about half their usual equipment: everything from helicopters, humvees, trucks, weapons available to them because all the rest of the stuff has been sent off to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

There are 78,000 National Guard troops who are now deployed in those overseas war zones. Even the hardest hit states, Louisiana, Mississippi, have 40 percent of their National Guard troops in Iraq right now.

What happens if there's a terrorist attack tomorrow or a massive earthquake in Southern California? How would the nation respond? It's a frightening thought. The question is this. "If we're going to stay the course in Iraq, should the U.S. bring the National Guard home and institute a draft?" Caffertyfile -- one word -- CNN.com. We'll read some of your letters a bit later.

BLITZER: You know Jack, 40 percent of the 138,000, 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, and this has been a relatively steady percentage -- 40 percent are either National Guard or reserves, so-called weekend warriors. The citizen soldiers. But they've been playing a critical role in the war in Iraq.

CAFFERTY: Do you suppose, Wolf, that the arrival of the relief convoys and the political photo ops on the Gulf Coast happening at the very same time were a coincidence today?

BLITZER: Well, I'm sure our viewers have some thoughts on that as well. These pictures, by the way, Jack, that we're getting in, and I want to show our viewers, these are live pictures over at the airport.

But I am also looking at this other picture that we're getting in from our affiliate WDSU from Biloxi, Mississippi. Look at this, a helicopter has landed and they are simply bringing supplies in off this helicopter. This is tape that our affiliate has. And all these people are simply waiting for the supplies.

We've seen these kind of images in Africa and elsewhere. We're seeing these images right here in the United States right now. A military helicopter lands, and people desperate to get any supplies they possibly can.

Jack, a final thought before I let you go.

CAFFERTY: It's embarrassing.
djsunyc
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9/2/2005  11:13 PM
great great thread.

i'm not even going to pretend i'm as politically learn-ned as some of you guys but all i can say is that in my adult lifetime (i'm 31), this is the worst state of the union i've ever experienced...and the near future doesn't look too bright either. times are pretty bad, and when things are bad, there's really only one person to blame and that's the leader, and in this case, the bush administration. i don't care if you're republican, democrat, or whatever, just standing back and looking at the entire situation, i ask all of you, right now, today, what would your rather do - keep everyone over in iraq (a war that's now 2 years longer than what was promised), or bring everyone back, and fix up the US? seriously, it's a simple question.

this country is going down the perverbial gutter. i don't care if the president's name is george bush or patrick ewing, it's pretty obvious to see that the country has not gotten any better over the past 5 years - and looks to get WORSE in the near future. so forget the "facts", forget the freakin' media reports, or the articles, just use your eyes and look at what's going on. people are losing jobs left and right, people can't afford anything anymore (my friend refuses to drive anywhere now b/c of gas prices), people are dying left and right in a war that 1/2 the country doesn't want to be in - AND FOR WHAT?!?!?! what's wrong with cutting our losses now, and pull out of iraq and concentrate on rebuilding our country? there's nothing wrong with that. this administration will probably go down as one of the worst in history b/c it was during this administration that so much bad has happened to the country.

i forget who said it in an earlier post, but in ny, it's was ALL RUDY. hey, i'm not a rudy fan cause he shut down all the nudie joints but despite that, he pretty much was the leader we needed at the time. so whether you supported him or not, it was his leadership that bounced nyc back after 9/11. if he ran for president in 04, he would have won IN A LANDSLIDE b/c during times of trouble that we're in, we need a leader that can lead. from the get go - we all knew it wasn't bush and i'm pretty amazed that the country would re-elect a guy like him. but i think he got re-elected b/c 9/11 actually helped his administration out. the horrific event made alot of people revisit their religion and as a whole, the US became vulnerable. the bush administration then used that to their full advantage and won in 04.

anyways, at the end of the day, IT'S VERY SIMPLE TO ME: our country is going down the crapper, and we're losing resources to fix it up b/c of what's going on in iraq. our war in iraq did not deter terrorist bombings in england. and there's probably an attack being planned in the US as i type this. all those lives lost and all the money spent on a war that probably won't yield the results everyone expected is why we are in the state we're in. it's the bush administration that's done it and why i don't like it.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 09-02-2005 11:13 PM]
rojasmas
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9/2/2005  11:17 PM
Put this out on the Kanye West thread, want it read so those who don't go there, read it here.
http://www.bushwatch.net/miscellanea.htm
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
djsunyc
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9/2/2005  11:20 PM
THE STORY OF THE HURRICANE COWBOY WHO FIDDLED
WHILE NEW ORLEANS DROWNED

by Amanda Lang

Why did Bush vacation – cut wood, clear brush, bike, and read -- for days while the world watched Katrina develop, then slam as a category 4 hurricane into the Gulf Coast? Just as he did on September 11, 2001, he froze. They don’t have cable or telephones in Crawford? The unfolding catastrophe has Bush leadership skills, or lack thereof, written all over it. He treats his own citizens with the same contempt and callousness as he does the Iraqi civilians – as “collateral damage.” If a category 4 hurricane is not a “bomb” dropping on American soil, what is? Bush remained on vacation one whole day after Katrina hit, WAITING FOR WHAT? The federal government was ‘missing in action’ and has failed its citizens abysmally. And Congress... where the hell are they? They rushed back to Washington over night for one woman’s feeding tube, but can’t seem to find the way back for a destructive hurricane that most likely killed thousands. Are these Americans too poor or not expounding the right religion to garner attention the Trade Tower victims received? They all sat and watched this train wreck, now they are screwing up the rescue and salvage, probably busy searching for the ‘scapegoat’ du jour. Did the Bush administration and Congress want to create a situation where they could declare martial law? Looks like it.

New Orleans has become a war zone. Martial law declared. Since when is a policy of "you loot, we shoot" appropriate for people just trying to survive until help arrives? THEY ARE DYING. So are they ‘looters’ or ‘survivors’ (like the TV show “Survivor” Americans love to love)? So what if in addition to food, water, diapers, and medical supplies, they take some jeans? They’ve been wearing oil, chemical, and sewer-soaked clothes for days. They’re wading through floating, decaying dead bodies. New Orleans is and will be uninhabitable for three to six months at least, so the merchandise is already a write-off. Think about it? Would you want this merchandise? Let good come from it while it can.

The ‘survivors’ have obtained weapons and are using them. Escaped prisoners riot and hold hostages. People go ‘feral’ displaying ‘pack’ and/or ‘mob’ behaviors when threatened and their lives are in ‘great peril.’ Unfortunately, in America you can find a gun anywhere in virtually any caliber, so chaos reigns. A "loot-shoot" policy only exacerbates the problem. Relief workers received orders to divert efforts from ‘saving people’ to ‘crime fighting’. Why choose ‘property’ over ‘life’? The policy lacks common sense, compassion, or understanding of the survival instinct. CNN has images of people dead and dying on camera. Their reporters are watching people – children and elderly – die before their eyes. The sick, injured, dehydrated, starving, and scared feel abandoned. In the hot, stinking Superdome, where 25,000 refugees await evacuation, fires and fighting are breaking out. Fear, anger, and hopelessness will push conditions to a boil, and more people than necessary will die – mostly the innocent victims of this horrible disaster.

Do we need to request U.N Aid and Peace Keeping Forces? It appears we lack the expertise and leadership to prevent or deal with a major national crisis. Why aren't these convoys and helicopters dropping in water, food, and medicine to these trapped individuals? Yes, conditions are deteriorating, but our National Guard soldiers fly helicopters through Iraq every day taking gunfire for a far less legitimate cause. Is the relief work necessary beyond the Bush administration's capabilities? We do not posses the numbers of National Guard soldiers and relief workers necessary to get this situation under control. Just like Iraq – not enough bodies on the ground to do the job. Bush cut funding to New Orleans hurricane preparations by $72.1 million and gave eight jets to Pakistan – FREE – valued at $36 million each = $288 million. Get the picture. ‘Survivors’ of this crisis sure could use that $288 million and the $5.6 billion per month [this breaks down to almost $186 million a day] or $672 BILLION PER YEAR the Neocons are throwing at Iraq, plus the billions in pork given to corporations this year alone.

Even worse, image you’re a National Guard soldier in Iraq that has family, friends, and property in ‘harm’s way, but are stuck policing the streets of Iraq. The irony of the situation is macabre. You were sent to fight an urban guerilla war based on a 'buffet' of evolving lies and rationales -- perhaps on your second or third tour -- and your family is back home dealing with this mess alone -- homeless, injured, starving, drowning, or dying -- and you are not there and you don't have a clue what their condition is because no one else does. Tragic irony. They face an uncertain future and still may die themselves on a street or road in Iraq. In the news, they hear of over-the-top CEO salaries, while Florida hotels evict refugee families so fans can attend a football game. How would you feel to discover your loved ones where not evacuated, even though it was known a category 4 or 5 hurricane was approaching? Or even worse, they still stuck in the disaster area because at your pay scale, they just couldn’t afford to leave.

A reckoning time is here. The ‘Hurricane Cowboy’ has a lot to answer for, as do the ‘knuckled-headed’ Neocons and the ‘do-nothing’ Congress. This tragedy should have been prevented. Hundreds of thousands of Americans lives completely destroyed while Bush fiddled with a guitar, went on a two-day speaking jaunt/fund-raiser to California and Arizona, and ‘read’ a speech, ironically to a group of sailors and WWII veterans:

"This morning, our hearts and prayers are with our fellow citizens along the Gulf Coast," Bush said. "We know that many are anxious to return to their homes. It's not possible at this moment." His heart and prayers may have been there, but his ass sure wasn’t.--posted September 3, 2004

djsunyc
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9/3/2005  12:09 AM
i'm watching fox news right now, they got a guy on the only bridge out of town and the officials are NOT letting the people LEAVE new orleans. people are turned back and locked in the superdome. people are dying in front of them. corpses are being placed in the 2nd level. this is 5 days in the same place, no water, same clothes, all in the same place with dead bodies yet they're not letting them walk out of new orleans. UNREAL.
GoNyGoNyGo
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9/3/2005  1:13 AM
This whole post is about getting the people out before. Let's remember to get the facts straight.

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana


Gee.. I wonder why we have not heard that anywhere since this happened. The mayor of NO has the nerve to rant when he didn't even think of evacuating the city? he should be grateful more people are not suffering today due to his lack of leadership. The idiot-savant was the one who told them to evacuate the city, yes all while at his ranch working.
Rich
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9/3/2005  1:39 AM
No mayor has the power to evacuate the city given a disaster of that magnitude.

They needed federal help. The POTUS decided it was more important to vacation and fund raise.
BRIGGS
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9/3/2005  11:01 AM
Posted by Rich:

No mayor has the power to evacuate the city given a disaster of that magnitude.

They needed federal help. The POTUS decided it was more important to vacation and fund raise.


IMHO, the FAIR way to deal with this is to fire ANYONE who had the authority to call in the National Guard early--prepare cruise ships to take on survivors/evacuees--have all facets of military in place, make sure that there was adeuqate energy/food/water supplies. The problem here is that they had time to act--they knew the potnetial consequences, so, the oNLY recourse was prepare for the worst and hope for the best--because they did not prepare at all, I believe that people have to pay for the lives that were taken--if thats the Preseident--if thats' numerous senators, anyone in government with the ability to act--should be fired. I think thats the fair recourse.
RIP Crushalot😞
Marv
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9/3/2005  12:25 PM
ah, the boy king.

what do you have to do to be the president of a country? you have to love the people. and you have to protect them. loving them takes heart. protecting them takes acting on that heart. a lot of flawed men have been quite good presidents because, despite their flaws, they put their heart and actions into loving and protecting the people.

has this guy done that? imo, no. i've only seen him do it once. on september 11, 2002. they built that ramp into ground zero and brought the families of victims there and brought w in to greet them. and when they reached the end of the allotted time for him to be there and he was supposed to go on to his next publicized ceremony, he wouldn't go, he stayed and continued to talk to and touch and at times hug and hold onto each and every person who was there to see and touch him and sometimes collapse and cry on his shoulder. and he stayed there for a long long time after he was scheduled to leave, as long as it took to greet every single family member. and i thought oh my god he does get it there is hope. we needed him so badly to be a man of heart and action for the country. but of course it turned out to be an aberration. from there he went on to ashcroft and patriot acts and rumsfeld and iraq and halliburton and abu graihb and cindy sheehan. and now with katrina i only see more of the same. where is love for and protection of the people? i just don't see it in the man. and it's why he's a failure as a president imo.
GoNyGoNyGo
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9/3/2005  1:05 PM
Even in the face of the truth, most of you still find a way for your hatred to shine thru.

By the way did anyone see the pics of the 300+ city of NO buses that were underwater. It seems to me that the MAYOR could have done something about that and used them to get the poor out. No he is begging for buses! It is easy to point fingers, is it not?
TheloniusMonk
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9/3/2005  1:22 PM
I know New Orleans and streets and highways like the back of my hand. My grandmother and aunt were blatantly told that there was current not a plan in place to get them to safety? Huh? Why did GW even go down to New Orleans? Photo ops?

Pretty much across the board, the media channels were reporting that the people at the Convention Center were being tended to and being fed. Lies! I spoke to my aunt and found out that this was a blatant lie. Why lie to the people about something like that? To pacify the people to cover up the fact that nothing is being done. My grandmother is still there. No food, water or medical assistance. The mayor is the one who put them on blast and exposed them. Why be mad at HIM for doing so?

Could have, would have, should have. The point is, My grandmother is there now. It doesn't matter at this point what should have been done. That only is important for NEXT time something like this happens. Right now the fact is nothing is being done and they're moving at a very very very slow pace.

And thanx for your concerns Hardcore.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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9/3/2005  1:31 PM
Not that the things that should have done are not important, b/c they are. But at the end of the day, the people of New Orleans need help and they need help now. They are dying. They are at wit's end. They are hungry. Their bodies are breaking down. Infants are dead by now.

A disaster of this magnitude needs the people at the highest positions in office to act. This is a fact! That's what they're their for. We don't put people in office for them to take their time when the biggest disaster in American history. It comes with the job of being president.

I'm sure that somewhere in his contract it says 'in case of the biggest disaster in U.S. history mr. president, get up off of your ***'. I'm pretty sure I'm quoting it right.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Rich
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9/3/2005  3:19 PM
According to this article military was ready to begin emergency food drops into New Orleans much earlier in the week, but they were waiting on a request from FEMA:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/02/AR2005090200670_2.html

According to this article Lousiana Gov. Blanco accepted an offer of state National Guard troops from New Mexico Gov. Richardson on Sunday, just before the storm hit, but the paperwork from Washington, allowing the troops to deploy, didn't arrive until Thursday:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard
rojasmas
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9/3/2005  10:13 PM
Well, if bureaucracy stood in the way of saving people, shame on anyone in power who didn't reach out to expedite the relief. It still doesn't absolve anyone in charge of failing those who counted on them. The governor may have screwed up, but the President should have known the steps to move the process along. Come on! We all know Bush is a figurehead but someone under him had to know what needed to be done.
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Rich
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9/3/2005  10:37 PM
It's the president's job to cut through the bureaucracy. As Truman said: "The buck stops here" (meaning at his desk), although with Bush it stops everywhere else. Personal responsibility means nothing to him.
rojasmas
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9/4/2005  12:14 AM
The world's favorite liberal weighed in on the Hurricane disaster and guess what? Bush got bushwhacked yet again. http://michaelmoore.com/
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
rojasmas
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9/4/2005  12:30 AM
Last post for tonight and the mayor of New Orleans should be heard from the hometown paper...
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html#076464
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
rojasmas
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9/4/2005  10:31 PM
Tim Russert had Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff on Meet the Press. Here is the transcript. A Louisiana Senator said that 10,000 people may have died in this crisis. Our federal government failed its people. Heads should roll.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/
We could be the Dallas Mavs of the East.
Rich
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9/4/2005  10:39 PM
Despite the effort by the Bush Administration to blame the victims in Louisiana and Mississippi, it should be noted that the Administration ignored it's own plan for dealing with a threat like Katrina. The plans says that in the event of a catastrophic disaster the federal government need not wait for any explicit request from the local authorities in the affected regions.


http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf



OT--USA military shouldve helped get the people out of nO BEFORE the fact

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