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If Knicks get off to a slow start, Isiah will be fired...
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crzymdups
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5/30/2005  11:55 AM
"Herb Williams will return as New York's coach. Yet if Isiah Thomas had his druthers, his buddy Mark Aguirre would be eased into the command seat. But should the Knicks get off to a poor start next (a scenario that seems inevitable unless Zeke manages to bamboozle some other franchise into trading for the likes of Allan Houston and/or Stephon Marbury), Thomas will be pink-slipped."

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3649612

I have to think that this will influence Zeke's draft day thinking. Either he'll take someone like Frye or Taft and hope for instant results, or he'll trade the pick for a Kwame or Zach Randolph.

This is the problem with Dolan, everyone is always fighting for their life, there's no stability, everyone has to generate "results." This leads to Herb W and Don Chaney playing his starters 40 minutes a game in April in lotto seasons, making us get picks 7,8,9 instead of 3,4,5. This leads to trading players every six months and not trying to build chemistry. This is why our team will be crap until Dolan is gone.

Sure, he'll fire Isiah, Sports Guy will get to write another column about how Isiah ruined another franchise, people here will argue whether Zeke was worse than Layden, but we'll all know that, really, it has nothing to do with Zeke or Layden - they never had a chance. This whole franchise has Dolan's fat finger prints all over it. Spree trade? Dolan. Houston contract? Dolan. Checketts leaving? Dolan. Checketts being forced to choose between Grunfeld and JVG? Dolan. Ewing trade? You guessed it. Dolan. F**K Dolan. I can't do this anymore.

People will say I'm over-reacting, but we all know it's true. Time to start taking bets on which re-tread exec comes in next for his two-three years of trying to "get results" for Fat Jimmy Dolan?

[Edited by - crzymdups on 05/30/2005 11:56:03]
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Killa4luv
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5/30/2005  12:21 PM
Was Dolan responsible for trading NeNe and Camby for Antonio McDyss?
Or trading Glenn Rice for Shandon and Eisley?

Dolan played a role, but what role he played is not entirely clear. What is clear is Layden made some bad moves, his only saving grace is Sweetney.
Vmart
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5/30/2005  12:41 PM
If Herb comes back we can all forget Basketball in NYC. Its going to be a long and miserable season.
diderotn
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5/30/2005  12:52 PM
I agree with you Vmart....We need to take another direction
The true Knickabocker..........
BRIGGS
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5/30/2005  12:52 PM
thats BS, Dolan likes isiah and if anything i hope isiah is not pressured into a quick fix

remember glenn sather has been with the rangers for 8 years and not 1 trip to the playoffs. isiah needs to show the goods in 2-3 years, thats fair and I think ive been reasonable on isiah' situation he needs 4-5 years from the start
RIP Crushalot😞
diderotn
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5/30/2005  1:01 PM
BRIGG! the thing about N.Y. is that a black man will not get that long of a time to show what he really can do. In areas where a white GM would get 4 to 5 years, as a black man, you only get 2 years...If Isiah doesn't have a strong start and a strong finish next season and make the playoffs, he will be history...
The true Knickabocker..........
BigSm00th
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5/30/2005  1:05 PM
Haha the good old race card is being brought up.

Isiah will have as much or more time than Layden did, plain and simple.
#Knickstaps
Vmart
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5/30/2005  1:10 PM
Somethings that aren't going to help Isiah's situation is when teams like the Suns and Nets turn it around with a few moves. I think this should be Isiah's make or break season. He has his players in now make something happen. This team was suppose to go forward after the Playoff apperance not backwards as they did do. Sorry folks but Isiah has to make something positive happen here and I don't mean make the Knicks fun to watch and lose. I rather the Knicks be boring and post Wins.

This is it, Zeke has to show what it all about. Can't keep making excuses and blaming Dolan. Because the situation was presented to Zeke when he took the job, he took the job and said he can make something happen well its time to show it.
Bonn1997
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5/30/2005  1:15 PM
I have to think that this will influence Zeke's draft day thinking. Either he'll take someone like Frye or Taft and hope for instant results, or he'll trade the pick for a Kwame or Zach Randolph.

The Kwame thing is a bit crazy but I still could see him trading it for Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest
BRIGGS
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5/30/2005  1:18 PM
Posted by Vmart:

Somethings that aren't going to help Isiah's situation is when teams like the Suns and Nets turn it around with a few moves. I think this should be Isiah's make or break season. He has his players in now make something happen. This team was suppose to go forward after the Playoff apperance not backwards as they did do. Sorry folks but Isiah has to make something positive happen here and I don't mean make the Knicks fun to watch and lose. I rather the Knicks be boring and post Wins.

This is it, Zeke has to show what it all about. Can't keep making excuses and blaming Dolan. Because the situation was presented to Zeke when he took the job, he took the job and said he can make something happen well its time to show it.


he's got to be cool. Failure to me is loading up on veterans at this point. He has gone in a starnge direction, but lets see where it goes. I think Jamal has the ability to breakout and we need to remain patient with what we have and add promising young talent--perhaps with 1 extra vet move to compliment what we have. Maybe Jalen rose--expensive but i dont care as long as we keep the young players and add 2-3 more.
RIP Crushalot😞
Vmart
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5/30/2005  1:26 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Vmart:

Somethings that aren't going to help Isiah's situation is when teams like the Suns and Nets turn it around with a few moves. I think this should be Isiah's make or break season. He has his players in now make something happen. This team was suppose to go forward after the Playoff apperance not backwards as they did do. Sorry folks but Isiah has to make something positive happen here and I don't mean make the Knicks fun to watch and lose. I rather the Knicks be boring and post Wins.

This is it, Zeke has to show what it all about. Can't keep making excuses and blaming Dolan. Because the situation was presented to Zeke when he took the job, he took the job and said he can make something happen well its time to show it.


he's got to be cool. Failure to me is loading up on veterans at this point. He has gone in a starnge direction, but lets see where it goes. I think Jamal has the ability to breakout and we need to remain patient with what we have and add promising young talent--perhaps with 1 extra vet move to compliment what we have. Maybe Jalen rose--expensive but i dont care as long as we keep the young players and add 2-3 more.

I agree with that. But failure to me is playing Vets over the young and slowing their progress to a snails pace. And still stinking the joint out with the Vets. I'm willing to give him a year or two. But the Young have to play. If for some reason the young don't get run then I have to say bye to Isiah.
simrud
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5/30/2005  1:53 PM
I hope just that happens and we get a real GM. Tired of this jokers, bigname no experience morons. Why don't we hire Starks to be our GM next, might as well, he just as much credibility as IT, at least he did not ruin a leage and failed as a GM before. And he wasnt even a a bad coach yet. Hurray, why not make David Robinson our coach, he was a great player, too and he is retired, hire him.

Most of these former players are really bad as GM's, and only get the job cause they used to be good players. I don't understand how thats supposed to automatically translate into coaching and managing.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
BRIGGS
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5/30/2005  2:39 PM
Posted by simrud:

I hope just that happens and we get a real GM. Tired of this jokers, bigname no experience morons. Why don't we hire Starks to be our GM next, might as well, he just as much credibility as IT, at least he did not ruin a leage and failed as a GM before. And he wasnt even a a bad coach yet. Hurray, why not make David Robinson our coach, he was a great player, too and he is retired, hire him.

Most of these former players are really bad as GM's, and only get the job cause they used to be good players. I don't understand how thats supposed to automatically translate into coaching and managing.






Lets hope Isiah works out. Lets pray he works out. If not, I would be personally breaking the bank for either

Popovich or Riley
RIP Crushalot😞
s3231
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5/30/2005  2:51 PM
I think Isiah has more time than people think. As BRIGGS said, Dolan likes Isiah and I think Isiah made it clear to Dolan when he first took the job that it would take awhile to clean up the mess. Hell, when Zeke took the job we pretty much came to a consensus that he should have at least 3 years to turn this team around. The problem is everyone's expectations got a lot higher after we got Marbury. All of a sudden everyone thinks we are trying to win now. Isiah has made some weird moves but the one thing I'll give him is that he's been saying ever since the beginning that it will take awhile.

We aren't in a great position right now but I still think we have enough to work with. This draft will obviously be crucial. If Isiah can draft us some good talent with good potential and shows signs of putting together a nice pipeline of youth then I think we will be going in the right direction. We don't need to completely rebuild as some people think, we can win now (no championship but we can make the playoffs) and put together a nice group of young and talented players at the same time. I still have faith that Isiah can pull that off.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
tkf
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5/30/2005  3:01 PM
It is easy to say, IT ruined a league, without really knowing what went on... I mean this guy got squeezed by the NBA and at one point I heard he was keeping the league going out of his own money... Then to say he failed as a GM in toronto? well he drafted, camby, Stoudamire and T-mac, Ny would be lucky to have such failure.... How about all the talent he developed in Indiana? I don't think starks or David Robinson will have that on their resume.. It is easy to knock It without all the facts or just hearing what his detractors have to say, but the guy is a great talent evaluator and good front man for a organization. I am willing to give him some time, a fair amount of time to straighten this mess out..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
djsunyc
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5/30/2005  4:15 PM
yup, isiah is not going anywhere and it looks like mills was the one to force layden out of town, not dolan. and mills was the man that went after isiah so IF somebody gets fired, it would be mills BEFORE isiah. otherwise, sit back, and enjoy the isiah era...
crzymdups
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5/30/2005  6:44 PM
it has nothing to do with race or anything. It's about the way this team judges progress. Apparently, winning games in April is more important than building through the draft. What do you think Dolan cares more about next year? Getting 39 wins or developing youth and getting a high lotto pick at 25 wins? Which do you think sells more seats: a near playoff team, scraping to get in or a lotto team? Forget about the fact that most Knicks fans love the idea of young talent, the owner wants veteran players with name recognition and a packed house. Progress to this team is "how many sellouts" and making the playoffs.

Someone brought up the Dyess trade, saying Dolan didn't force that? The way he runs this team is what forced it. Keeping nene and Camby would've meant waiting a year for Camby to heal and for Nene to develop. Dyess, ostensibly, was the sure-fire quick fix all-star.

Reading the Charlie Rosen article doesn't make me think Zeke is going to get fired right away, but it DOES make me think that I have an idea how the draft will go and it won't involve guys like Bynum or Blatche.
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Bobby
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5/30/2005  10:12 PM
i really dont think zeke is going anywhere soon either. if dolan seen enough, the most logical choice has to be magic johnson
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
fishmike
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5/31/2005  7:44 AM
look at how long Layden got, and someone tell me Isiah is on a short leash. Also didnt Zeke get like a 7 year contract?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pharzeone
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5/31/2005  9:08 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

thats BS, Dolan likes isiah and if anything i hope isiah is not pressured into a quick fix

remember glenn sather has been with the rangers for 8 years and not 1 trip to the playoffs. isiah needs to show the goods in 2-3 years, thats fair and I think ive been reasonable on isiah' situation he needs 4-5 years from the start
Dolan already influenced Isiah, when he first arrived he wanted to rebuild to win a championship but Dolan corrected him at the podium and said he just wanted to get to the playoffs. When the man that signs your paycheck disagrees with your philosophy, it is hard to say different. Dolan is much to blame for his team signing frenzy and trade frenzy. I never blamed Layden for the Sprewell, and Camby trade because that was all Dolan.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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