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From the mind of Marbury
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Killa4luv
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4/23/2005  4:01 PM
“There is no question, next year we’ve got to rebuild,” star point guard Stephon Marbury reflected on the season. “And by rebuilding I don’t necessarily mean new players, or a lot of new talent. I'm talking more about coming back and focussing upon the type of basketball team we want to be. You can’t be one type of team for five games, then something happens and you do something different the next five games. I’m talking about having a consistent identity as a team. I think that is a precondition for turning things around, a basic necessity for winning.”

First, let me say that as a fan of Steph's I have never heard him sound this articulate. More importantly, having an identity and a style of play is something I have heard many here harp on, and is something I agree with. Fish is probably the guy who says this the most the he certainly isn't alone.
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gunsnewing
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4/23/2005  4:05 PM
no question about it this team hasn't had any identity since ewing & jvg left and camby was traded
MaTT4281
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4/23/2005  6:39 PM
He's saying all the right things...but words won't win games. I hope for the life of me that they're successful, but I'm scared as hell about seeing what identity this team will actually have.
fishmike
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4/23/2005  9:23 PM
its so plain and obvious its almost silly to say. Its like telling a batter to only swing at strikes.

He's right... maybe one minor trade and a decent draft and we can establish a stlye of play and a plan.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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4/23/2005  9:50 PM
Posted by fishmike:

He's right... maybe one minor trade and a decent draft and we can establish a stlye of play and a plan.

one more thing...that one minor trade and that decent draft only establishes a style of play IF THEY PLAY!!!

do you think our #8 pick (if it's a warrick) will play over the $350 mil in malik, mo, jyd, kurt, sweets?
Bonn1997
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4/23/2005  10:03 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:

He's right... maybe one minor trade and a decent draft and we can establish a stlye of play and a plan.

one more thing...that one minor trade and that decent draft only establishes a style of play IF THEY PLAY!!!

do you think our #8 pick (if it's a warrick) will play over the $350 mil in malik, mo, jyd, kurt, sweets?
If he's ready to, sure. Our #43 pick played most of the year ahead of Penny and Shandon, who are more expensive than all those PFs combined.
diderotn
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4/23/2005  10:17 PM
For the Knicks to ever develop an identity, they will have to bring in guys who actually do possess an identity to play. First and formost, our frontcourt do not possess an identity player. The pick & roll with no one that can block shot or force the other team's frontline to foul is just not what we need, especially when our back court is as horrible defensively as we are. In my opinion, we have to bring new players to play in the front court. I don't care if that player is not a scorer, because we already have guys that can put the ball in the basket, but whomever we have on the court as our front court starter, particularly the Center position, he will have to be able to put fear in the oponnent's heart.

As for Marburry's articulation, you are right about your observation. I also think that Isiah needs to definitely bring a specialist to coach our young boys how and what to say to the media when they are cornered. Too often this season and last, we have read some crazy comments that were made by our so call stars. That has to stop, especially with this hungry media that we have in N.Y. I am happy with a lot of decisions that Isiah has made in N.Y, but there are still plenty of rooms for improvements. Being a professional starts not only from the way you dress, but from the way you speak and perfom.
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Killa4luv
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4/23/2005  11:00 PM
you also have to wonder if he is directing those comments at lenny wilkens and/or Herb Williams. Switching style of play every 5 games sounds like a coaching issue.
diderotn
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4/23/2005  11:06 PM
Don't you agree with him? I do. Whether it was Lenny or Herb, they have both committed the same mistakes throughout the season. Use one style and stick to it. If we are going to be a freaking pick & roll team, perfect the hell out of it. Incite all of the players to learn how to set screens to facilitate better execution of it. If we are going to be a run and shoot, stick to it, get rid of the guys that can't support the run and shoot, and utilize guys that are best suited to play the run and shoot. When you have: Marb, Crawf, Ariza, JYD, and other guys that can run the floor, you have to use their abilities. Kurt Thomas and Marb are the only two that could execute the pick & roll to perfection, that to me was not sufficient. We have more runners, so that should have been our strength.

Posted by Killa4luv:

you also have to wonder if he is directing those comments at lenny wilkens and/or Herb Williams. Switching style of play every 5 games sounds like a coaching issue.
The true Knickabocker..........
Knicksfan
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4/24/2005  12:38 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by fishmike:

He's right... maybe one minor trade and a decent draft and we can establish a stlye of play and a plan.

one more thing...that one minor trade and that decent draft only establishes a style of play IF THEY PLAY!!!

do you think our #8 pick (if it's a warrick) will play over the $350 mil in malik, mo, jyd, kurt, sweets?
If he's ready to, sure. Our #43 pick played most of the year ahead of Penny and Shandon, who are more expensive than all those PFs combined.

That depends so much on the coach we get. Don't you remember how the Knicks got eliminated from playoff contention, yet Herb didn't play him at all? How much time has Sweetney got to wait in order to play only a little. It depends on the coach we get and what does Isiah tells him to do (if its a coach controlled by him, like Lenny). This draft is very important to us, and the player we get should hel pus right away, even only as a backup...
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Killa4luv
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4/24/2005  3:40 AM
Focussing on Sweets wont help us see the problem because we have so many pf's that are arguably or realistically more taslented than him. Ariza's play tells the story because his position is a hole for us. Why not play him? I kno there is a reason, it just doesn't seem like it makes sense. especially with him hitting some open shots. WE NEED THAT!!!!
Knicksfan
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4/24/2005  11:12 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Focussing on Sweets wont help us see the problem because we have so many pf's that are arguably or realistically more taslented than him. Ariza's play tells the story because his position is a hole for us. Why not play him? I kno there is a reason, it just doesn't seem like it makes sense. especially with him hitting some open shots. WE NEED THAT!!!!

The reason I don't want Herb back...
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TMS
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4/24/2005  7:54 PM
here's an idea about a style of play to implement...play some D on a consistent basis.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
diderotn
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4/24/2005  9:32 PM
How can you play any D when your starting Center does nothing but shoot jump shot? The two guys that I really want to see as our starters in the front court are Rose and JYD. I don't know if Isiah will want to bring those two back, but if he does, they need to have a bigger role in our rotation.....Again, until Kurt Thomas is gone, we will never be a good defensive team.


Posted by TMS:

here's an idea about a style of play to implement...play some D on a consistent basis.
The true Knickabocker..........
TMS
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4/24/2005  9:44 PM
please, that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard you say & that's saying alot...what the hell does having a jumpshooting C do w/playing defense for the other 4 players on the floor? having a shotblocking C may cover for the obvious poor defense we have on the perimeter, but it still doesn't excuse our G's for letting guys like Tyronn Lue & Milt Palacio torch them this year in games they clearly should have won.

defensive intensity has everything to do w/individual effort...each of the 5 guys on the floor needs to feel accountable for their lack of D this year.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
diderotn
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4/24/2005  9:50 PM
I agree with you about our guard being poor defenders. However, our big men need to be able to impact the games. Both of our guards are scorers, and the way it looks, they will be around for a while. Therefore, the best to do is to bring in defensive minded players to man the frontcourt. That is why it is imperative to get rid of Kurt Thomas, because his production really doesn't impact our win and loss colum. He grabs a lot of rebounds, but he doesn't attack the basket at the other end, and most of all, he doesn't block shots.


Posted by TMS:

please, that's the most ridiculous thing i've heard you say & that's saying alot...what the hell does having a jumpshooting C do w/playing defense for the other 4 players on the floor? having a shotblocking C may cover for the obvious poor defense we have on the perimeter, but it still doesn't excuse our G's for letting guys like Tyronn Lue & Milt Palacio torch them this year in games they clearly should have won.

defensive intensity has everything to do w/individual effort...each of the 5 guys on the floor needs to feel accountable for their lack of D this year.
The true Knickabocker..........
TMS
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4/24/2005  9:53 PM
the problem is you have KT playing C w/another slowfooted PF who plays crappy D in Sweetney...if you have a Camby or Dalembert playing C w/KT playing PF, it can work...same as if you have Camby or Dalembert playing C w/Sweetney at PF...we just have too many slow footed players that can't guard more athletic players on the floor.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
diderotn
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4/24/2005  9:57 PM
Exactly. I would trade Kurt way before I trade Sweetney. Kurt has mad value in this NBA, so we should take advantage of that. We need draft picks and I do believe that trading him will resolve a lot of our issues. We can't afford to go through next season with the problems that we have right now. We don't know who our starting PF nor Center are, and that is a shame. We have 8 PFs on our roster, and one Center who only plays for no more than 20 minutes this season.....That is horrible.

Posted by TMS:

the problem is you have KT playing C w/another slowfooted PF who plays crappy D in Sweetney...if you have a Camby or Dalembert playing C w/KT playing PF, it can work...same as if you have Camby or Dalembert playing C w/Sweetney at PF...we just have too many slow footed players that can't guard more athletic players on the floor.
The true Knickabocker..........
jaydh
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4/24/2005  10:00 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Kurt has mad value in this NBA, so we should take advantage of that.

i'm not so sure about that
TMS
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4/24/2005  10:02 PM
Kurt has mad value in this NBA

no he doesn't dude...we'd be lucky to get a late 1st rounder for him...he's been on the market for the past 3 years & no one's ever offered a good enough package for Layden or Isiah to trade him...the he's a very unathletic PF who can hit the midrange shot & grab defensive boards, but can't guard quicker players off the dribble...not exactly in wide demand.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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