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Should Crawford be part of Knicks' future?
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SKY
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4/4/2005  12:46 PM
Crawford is getting paid similar $$$ as Ginobli, Rip Hamilton, Cory Maggett. He's going to be commanding more $$$ than Artest.

Yet, he has been a bust so far. He's shooting 38% from the field and 36% from 3. He's got a great handle and CAN drive and dish, but he is STILL not learning to do so. He's an unreliable shooter who chucks way too many 3s, has low BB IQ, tweener who plays no defense.

I say, traded his skinny ass during the off-season. I don't like the idea of a 6th man of his quality getting paid $6-$10mm/yr until 2010.

How about trading Crawford, KT, cash, and our 53rd pick to Houston Rockets for Sura, Weatherspoon and their 23rd pick? Yes, Sura is 32 yrs old but he only has 2 more yrs on his contract and he's a decent combo-guard who plays good defense. Weatherspoon will be in his last yr of his deal. With the 23rd pick, we'll have a total of 3 first round picks (possibly our lottery 6-8th, 23rd, and 30th).

Or how about Crawford & Sweetney to Magic for Battie and their 13th pick?

What do you think?
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TMS
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4/4/2005  12:57 PM
i like Sura, but that's way too little to get back for Crawford & KT imho...the pick would have to be low lottery at the very least to make it worthwhile, otherwise i keep Crawford & hope he improves in the years to come...you can easily get a Bobby Sura w/a portion of the MLE just about any year...& a late 1st round pick is not nearly enough to get back for KT in a trade imho.
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EnySpree
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4/4/2005  1:00 PM
I love Craws game......He is just as good as Rip, and Ginobli.....

What he lacks is experience and an ability to know when to shoot, pass, and how to win. Ginobili and Rip went through that whole process already. When will Craw figure it out? Will he ever?

Larry Hughes is another guy that was in the same boat as Craw until this season. Sometimes it just clicks with the player over time.

My heart wants Craw to stay a Knick......but my brain is saying trade him for a guy that already know what he is doing. It's gonna hurt especially since Craw took Isiah's number out of respect.

Funny thing is Craw and KT or Sweetney can probably get the Knicks alot in return. Sura, Weatherspoon and a pick? That could work. Especially since the Knicks will probably waive Spoon. Sura is a good player to have off the bench. The pick would be cake. Still do we want to trade Craw and KT to play with T-Mac and Yao? Those guys might be their missing pieces.
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SKY
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4/4/2005  1:15 PM
Yeah, that's why Houston might do this trade. In terms of the quality of players, Houston will be ending up with the better ones. But in terms of $$$, we unload heaps.

Like BRIGGS said in another thread, I doubt other teams would want to do anything with Crawford, so we need to overpay so to speak.

As for Crawford learning to become a better player, I dunno... He's gotta learn when to shoot or pass. Sht, that's as fundamental as it comes. On top of that, he needs to bulk up at least 20 pounds to be a better defender, learn to move without the ball better, and change his mentality to attack the rim and not be afraid of contacts.

I really don't see him improving to the level of players such as Ginobli or Rip.
gunsnewing
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4/4/2005  1:28 PM
no way!

crawford, sweetney & kurt for sura, spoon and only the 23rd pick! you gotta be kidding me! I really dislike crawford but at least he has the talent and potential to be a good player. both of those houston guys are old and there's no guarantee the player you get at 23 will even crack the rotation or stay in the nba for that matter!
Bonn1997
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4/4/2005  1:29 PM
He's the equivalent of an expensive mid lottery pick like DJ said. He's a long-term investment. I don't mind trading him if we get a great offer in return, but I wouldn't be looking to trade Jamal. I'd rather work on improving his game, which has had some success at this year (albeit less than I had hoped for).

I don't like the idea of a 6th man of his quality getting paid $6-$10mm/yr until 2010.
As you all know, I don't care how much Dolan pays players. But, if Jamal can make some improvements, he can be a very good sixth man. And a very good sixth man is very valuable to teams (more so than an average starter IMO).
TMS
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4/4/2005  1:37 PM
people are down on Jamal right now because the team is losing...people were down on guys like Ricky Davis & Larry Hughes when they were younger & on losing teams too...funny how all of a sudden they've managed to turn themselves into some very good players who fit a role on playoff contending teams...why can't Jamal do the same?
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tomverve
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4/4/2005  1:38 PM
Crawford isn't Ginobili or Rip, but he hasn't been a bust. He has a 15.3 PER on the season, which is solid if unspectacular. His eFG% (47.7) could be better, but it's not unprecedented for a SG: witness Vince Carter (47.9), Kobe Bryant (47.8), Michael Redd (47.6), Tract McGrady (47.2). His assist and TO numbers are very good, especially for a mostly full-time SG.

I agree that we shouldn't count on him as a long term option at starting SG, but as a sub seeing both SG and PG duties, he'd be great. Would you mind paying slightly higher than MLE bucks for a potential sixth man of the year third guard who can play both backcourt spots? I wouldn't.

[Edited by - tomverve on 04/04/2005 13:42:51]
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BRIGGS
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4/4/2005  1:40 PM
[quote]
Posted by EnySpree:

I love Craws game......He is just as good as Rip, and Ginobli.....

Yeah right, not close. Crawford isnt 21, he'll be 26 next year and this is his 5th year. he better figure it out quick. on top of that he doesnt have the toughness of those players or the tight games. those guys are winners. crawford has been a pure loser.
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djsunyc
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4/4/2005  1:42 PM
this is a crazy question.

it's his first year here. we all knew what we were getting. is he overpriced? yup. but who isn't on this roster.

he's got a long way to go but has alot of physical skills that need to be developed. he's our $55 mil lottery purchase so let's develop him.

it took larry hughes, what, 6 years to get to where he is now? let's give him some years.
Nalod
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4/4/2005  1:42 PM
Craw the clown? Don't trade him, he is a bench player. We need a big SG (allan please come back!), and we can draft one to develope.

Craw needs more seasoning, maturity, and a meal.

Craw is no starter, but lets see how Isiah plays this out for a few yeras. We can't pick pieces and move them, there must be a big canvas to consider! Its not His fault we are losing, but he is a part of it.

TT must go though!
EnySpree
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4/4/2005  1:48 PM
Posted by TMS:

people are down on Jamal right now because the team is losing...people were down on guys like Ricky Davis & Larry Hughes when they were younger & on losing teams too...funny how all of a sudden they've managed to turn themselves into some very good players who fit a role on playoff contending teams...why can't Jamal do the same?

That's what makes the decision tough. Craw need to start. In order for the Knicks to be any good Craw has to play consistant every night. He has to learn the game of basketball....the pro game. He can't just dribble into the corner and chuck up a shot.

I'm confident that he will eventually understand but how long can the Knicks wait?

For example.....The Wizards had Rip but gave up on him saying that they could never win with him on the team. That was correct at the time. Rip got to Detroit and found his game. On the other side the Wizards eventually found another guy that fits their team better.

My point is that Craw has potential but there are other players out there. Does Craw fit? Do you feel he is understanding what he has to do to make the team win? If not....focus on trying to bring a player in that will.
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TMS
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4/4/2005  1:52 PM
i'm fine w/trading Craw if it brings us a player like Maggette who will fit the role better & is of comparable age.
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fishmike
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4/4/2005  1:56 PM
the guy doesnt know if he's supposed to shoot or pass. He's confused, and needs a sandwhich. He reminds me of Larry Hughes w/ GS and Phili. He needs to be comfortable. He's always going to be light but he can get his hands on a lot of balls and has made some very impressive plays on D at times.

Again this is how our lack of style of play hurts us. If Jamal had a chance to run and be creative in some space I think we would be singing a different tune. Instead his roll is a stop up 3 point shooter off MArbury's penetration.
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Nalod
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4/4/2005  2:11 PM
Teenage drivers are bad becasue they make bad decisions in a pinch. They become much better as they mature.

I have read that the brain matures by age 25. Looking at Craw, he looks like a high school boy. Very young looking, and perhaps his brain has not yet developed.

Man are we scraping or what today!
tkf
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4/4/2005  2:28 PM
Posted by Nalod:

Teenage drivers are bad becasue they make bad decisions in a pinch. They become much better as they mature.

I have read that the brain matures by age 25. Looking at Craw, he looks like a high school boy. Very young looking, and perhaps his brain has not yet developed.

Man are we scraping or what today!

LOL. we are scraping, but I want to keep craw, people act as if 25 is old, heck when guys used to stay in college 4 years, they would be 25 with just 3 years in the league.. craw is still growing, and who knows, in 3 years when he is 28 and his brain finally cathces up with his tremendous talent, I would not want to be the team that gave up on him....
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Rich
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4/4/2005  2:30 PM
I don't think that Craw has been the same player since the turf toe injury.
bigpimpin
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4/4/2005  2:31 PM
Posted by SKY:


How about trading Crawford, KT, cash, and our 53rd pick to Houston for Sura, Weatherspoon and the 23rd pick?

Or how about Crawford & Sweetney to Magic for Battie and their 13th pick?


Geez. Where do i begin?

You want the Knicks to trade Crawford, Sweetney, Kurt thomas, cash AND a draft pick for

let me get this right. Bob sura, Clarence weatherspoon and the 23rd pick?

Huh???

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
TMS
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4/4/2005  3:15 PM
i think i heard that Crawford's played 2 years of organized ball before he was drafted (1 year in HS & 1 year in college)...is that true? if so, i think we owe him just a bit more of a learning curve than other guys w/comparable talent at his age...he can easily be as good as Larry Hughes if not better w/a bit more seasoning.
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Bonn1997
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4/4/2005  3:25 PM
Posted by TMS:

i think i heard that Crawford's played 2 years of organized ball before he was drafted (1 year in HS & 1 year in college)...is that true? if so, i think we owe him just a bit more of a learning curve than other guys w/comparable talent at his age...he can easily be as good as Larry Hughes if not better w/a bit more seasoning.
Yes, it is true (about 2 years). I was going to point that out too. That's why Briggs' point about him being 25 is crazy. You can't blindly look at a players' age without paying attention to their history. Crawford is an extremely young 25.
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