Nyk4ever came up with this plan. I thought it would be a good idea to make a thread about it since its a very good idea and quite realistic unlike most trade proposals.

I know a lot of you guys are opposed to trading for Micheal Finley if we have to give up Sweetney or our #1 pick but if all we had to give up was Kurt Thomas & one of the our late 1st round picks then i think it would be a great trade for the Knicks.

Finley would be a nice stop gap as we wait and see if Crawford can bulk up and become smarter. Ariza is definitely a SF in my opinion once he bulks up. Whether he developes a decent jumpshot and becomes our starting SF or is a spark of the bench.

Dallas could use Kurt Thomas to backup Dampier & Dirk. They need toughness and with all the double-doubles he's putting up as a Center for the Knicks should impress them. And they are good with drafting so that late first rounder might be very appealing.

The Knicks need stars. Finley is a star. He's had a lot of nagging injuries but at least he will solidy the guard position. If we were excited about a 3 guard rotation of Marbury, Houston, Crawford imagine a 3 guard rotation of:
Marbury
Finley
Crawford

Dream lineup next season:
C-Splitter/Butler
PF-Sweetney
SF-TT/Ariza
SG-Finley
PG-Marbury

6th man: Crawford

Finley averages 17pts in Dallas! He would average 20 here! and Kurt goes back home!

Finley would definitely be the perimeter defender we desperately need. He is a very good perimeter defender!

Doesn't seem like there are many 2-way SGs in this draft who play defense and score let alone get a chance to play right away on this backwards Knicks organization. I don't see a rookie ever starting right away for the Knicks even if we draft a stud Center! And sure Maggette or Hughes would be great but really how realistic are they!

This will allow us to focus on the Center position and drafting the best player available.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/16/2005 12:33:46]

I'm not sure I make that trade. When both their careers are over I'd say that Ariza and Josh Howard are going to be a wash. Ariza will be putting up Josh Howard numbers 2-3 years from now, well atleast I think. I'm on realgm trying to put some trades together where the Knicks don't have to give up their lotto pick this year and there arent many potential that make sense for the Mavs. Isiah would need to bring in a 3rd team or have to part with that lotto pick if we're goin to get Finley in the garden.

Posted by TMS:

you have to match up the dollars...this deal doesn't work under the CBA...

KT, Mo T, Ariza & the lottery pick for Finley & Josh Howard would work though from my estimation (though haven't checked it on RealGM to verify yet)

[Edited by - TMS on 03/16/2005 12:29:43]

i like Ariza & i love his attitude, but i just feel Josh Howard will be a star in this league very soon, whereas Ariza may take another 3-4 years to reach that level...i see Josh Howard as a Ron Artest-light in the making...if we want to contend while Marbury is still a premier PG, this would be a good move to make IMHO.

Finley is on the downside of his career but he's ten times the player Kurt is and far better than most players you get with a late pick. I'd do this trade in a heart beat. Jamal can go back to the sixth man role, which could be a perfect fit for him.

Finley is posting a 15.34 PER this season. KT's PER is 14.58. I would hardly call Finley 'ten times the player' KT is... in fact, I would rank their relative worths for their respective positions very closely, given their age, remaining skillset, stats, etc. KT is an above average, valuable PF, though aging; likewise, Finley is an above average, valuable G, though aging.

I wouldn't trade KT for Finley straight up, and I wouldn't trade our late 1st rounder for Finley straight up. I definitely wouldn't give up both of them. I believe KT can get us better value than a 32 year old guard. And in all probability, the late 1st rounder will not be anything special; but it COULD be something special, and I would not forfeit even the slim chance to pick up an overlooked player at that spot just to have the services of Finley for a couple of years on a non-contending team.

Posted by tomverve:

Finley is posting a 15.34 PER this season. KT's PER is 14.58. I would hardly call Finley 'ten times the player' KT is... in fact, I would rank their relative worths for their respective positions very closely, given their age, remaining skillset, stats, etc. KT is an above average, valuable PF, though aging; likewise, Finley is an above average, valuable G, though aging.

I wouldn't trade KT for Finley straight up, and I wouldn't trade our late 1st rounder for Finley straight up. I definitely wouldn't give up both of them. I believe KT can get us better value than a 32 year old guard. And in all probability, the late 1st rounder will not be anything special; but it COULD be something special, and I would not forfeit even the slim chance to pick up an overlooked player at that spot just to have the services of Finley for a couple of years on a non-contending team.

please give up on those ratios they don't won't. Finley is a million times better than KT!

Finley is a starter on a good team. KT isn't unless he's playing next to Shaq or Duncan!

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by tomverve:

Finley is posting a 15.34 PER this season. KT's PER is 14.58. I would hardly call Finley 'ten times the player' KT is... in fact, I would rank their relative worths for their respective positions very closely, given their age, remaining skillset, stats, etc. KT is an above average, valuable PF, though aging; likewise, Finley is an above average, valuable G, though aging.

I wouldn't trade KT for Finley straight up, and I wouldn't trade our late 1st rounder for Finley straight up. I definitely wouldn't give up both of them. I believe KT can get us better value than a 32 year old guard. And in all probability, the late 1st rounder will not be anything special; but it COULD be something special, and I would not forfeit even the slim chance to pick up an overlooked player at that spot just to have the services of Finley for a couple of years on a non-contending team.

please give up on those ratios they don't won't. Finley is a million times better than KT!

Finley is a starter on a good team. KT isn't unless he's playing next to Shaq or Duncan!

5 years ago, I say go after Finley.....Exactly what has Finley done by himself without Dirk or Nash? I am not saying he isn't good, or he wouldn't make this team better, but the whole plan was to get younger...Finley has a HUGE contract and is 32 and may or may not be an effective player in the East on a team where he has to be the focal point.

Posted by tomverve:

guns, weak response. You gotta justify your claims with more than what essentially amounts to "I say so."

Bonn, can you come up with ANY set of stats that shows Finley to be very much better than KT? Also, it might be that Finley's stats are hurt by playing on a team with such a good offense, but there is undoubtedly another sense in which his stats are greatly helped, because the defense cannot key in on him. How do you propose to sort out these dueling effects?

By watching the guy play and looking at his skills, which are much better than Kurt's.

Posted by joec32033:

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by tomverve:

Finley is posting a 15.34 PER this season. KT's PER is 14.58. I would hardly call Finley 'ten times the player' KT is... in fact, I would rank their relative worths for their respective positions very closely, given their age, remaining skillset, stats, etc. KT is an above average, valuable PF, though aging; likewise, Finley is an above average, valuable G, though aging.

I wouldn't trade KT for Finley straight up, and I wouldn't trade our late 1st rounder for Finley straight up. I definitely wouldn't give up both of them. I believe KT can get us better value than a 32 year old guard. And in all probability, the late 1st rounder will not be anything special; but it COULD be something special, and I would not forfeit even the slim chance to pick up an overlooked player at that spot just to have the services of Finley for a couple of years on a non-contending team.

please give up on those ratios they don't won't. Finley is a million times better than KT!

Finley is a starter on a good team. KT isn't unless he's playing next to Shaq or Duncan!

5 years ago, I say go after Finley.....Exactly what has Finley done by himself without Dirk or Nash? I am not saying he isn't good, or he wouldn't make this team better, but the whole plan was to get younger...Finley has a HUGE contract and is 32 and may or may not be an effective player in the East on a team where he has to be the focal point.

You're getting older if you give up Kurt to get Finley. In fact, you're getting a player who plays as if he were ten years younger than Kurt.

Finley has a HUGE contract

You know how much I care about Dolan's payroll or about the cap flexibility notion a few people here are obsessed with

I have watched both play. I do not come away as impressed by Finley as you two seem to. So how do we settle this? Stats are the only objective basis for comparison. Otherwise it's he said, she said and no one gets anywhere.