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we should see a lot of Kwame tonuight
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fishmike
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3/8/2005  11:19 AM
especially with no Jamison, the rotation will be shorter. Haywood has been very solid and I'm not sure Ernie will resign Kwame for big money, which of course begs the question. He's an athletic frontcourt player thats 22, something we desperatly need. He's a legit 6'11 and has shown some flashes in the past. Tons of injury problems and he's finally healthy.

I wish we had Nazr because I think his expiring deal and the Pho #1 this year could have gotten him in a sign and trade. We have fewer options now and the best we could offer is probably JYD, $3mm and one of our picks. I wont give up the lottery pick but I would give up next years #1 as that draft will be perhaps the worst ever.

Thoughts? Where do people value this guy?
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martin
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3/8/2005  11:33 AM
just a point of clarification... the Knicks have PHO #1 this year?

I keep losing track of all the trades. Where did it come from?
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fishmike
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3/8/2005  11:34 AM
SA traded either the pick or the rights to Barbosa last year for their #1 this year. So the Spurs had 2 #1s this year, theirs and the Suns from the Barbosa trade. Along with Rose we got the Pho pick this year and the Spurs own pick next year.
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crzymdups
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3/8/2005  11:41 AM
fish, I think the Wiz would want the lotto pick for Kwame.
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djsunyc
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3/8/2005  11:58 AM
kwame is starting to come on - especially on the boards. but like you said, NOT having nazr this summer really hurts us in going after these type of players.
nyk4ever
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3/8/2005  11:59 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

fish, I think the Wiz would want the lotto pick for Kwame.

I agree but they have to be careful with how they go about this situation. If they set the asking price for Kwame this offseason and let him come back next year, where's the guy going to play? I know he was the first pick in the draft but Washington is not a team that can just sit around and wait for players to emerge anymore, they have a good group of core players and are seemingly in Win-Now mode.

To me it looks like Kwame wants out of Washington and he'll bolt after next year without a doubt, due to playing time and for a fresh start. If Washington asks for a lottopick, I'm not quite sure how many teams would budge on that AND having to overpay him for potential.
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crzymdups
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3/8/2005  12:02 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by crzymdups:

fish, I think the Wiz would want the lotto pick for Kwame.

I agree but they have to be careful with how they go about this situation. If they set the asking price for Kwame this offseason and let him come back next year, where's the guy going to play? I know he was the first pick in the draft but Washington is not a team that can just sit around and wait for players to emerge anymore, they have a good group of core players and are seemingly in Win-Now mode.

To me it looks like Kwame wants out of Washington and he'll bolt after next year without a doubt, due to playing time and for a fresh start. If Washington asks for a lottopick, I'm not quite sure how many teams would budge on that AND having to overpay him for potential.

True, but it's not like our lotto pick is going to be all that great. We'll probably have the 10th or 11th pick at this rate. It's hard to get a good player in that range. Ernie Grunfeld is a savy GM, he's not going to give away an asset like Kwame.

Sometimes I think firing Ernie was the worst mistake this franchise ever made.
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fishmike
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3/8/2005  12:05 PM
how about JYD + $3mm, 2005 Pho pick and our 2006 #1 pick for Kwame in a sign and trade?

Thats two (I admit not great) picks for Kwame and the cash will offset some of JYD so he only costs them about $4mm a year for the next 2.

Nazr is the perfet fit for this trade but thats not an option.
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nyk4ever
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3/8/2005  12:11 PM
Posted by fishmike:

how about JYD + $3mm, 2005 Pho pick and our 2006 #1 pick for Kwame in a sign and trade?

Thats two (I admit not great) picks for Kwame and the cash will offset some of JYD so he only costs them about $4mm a year for the next 2.

Nazr is the perfet fit for this trade but thats not an option.

I don't mind giving up this year's Phoenix pick for Kwame but we have to stop trading away first round draft picks. I honestly think Kurt Thomas would be a awesome fit for Washington right now alongside Brendan Haywood. I'm not totally sure if the Wiz want to trade away their former first pick for Kurt Thomas and a draft pick though.
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tomverve
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3/8/2005  12:16 PM
The Wiz already have Brendan Haywood (who's pretty similar to Nazr in terms of physique and game) holding down the middle, so I don't know how much interest they'd have had in Nazr. If they do a Kwame S+T, I think they'll look for a replacement at PF.

Kwame is too much of an unknown for me to fathom. I don't really have much of an idea of what he can be, what NBA teams think he can be, and how NBA teams value him. (I know, people say he could be a smooth scorer, 20/10 kind of guy, etc.-- but could he really?) I'd be intrigued if NY picked him up, but I would definitely not want to surrender much to get him. I don't know if NY is a great trade partner with Washington in general, but maybe they'd be interested in Sweetney. Call me conservative (or crazy), but I think I'd pass on that trade myself. If we're talking a package based on picks, there's probably other teams that can put together a better proposal than NY (unless NY throws in its lottery pick this year-- which again, I would not do).

[Edited by - tomverve on 03/08/2005 12:17:45]
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Solace
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3/8/2005  12:21 PM
True that we don't have a lot of assets to get Kwame, but I certainly would be happy if we were able to find a package to get him. I think any package for a young frontcourt player starts with Kurt and a draft pick. If Kurt and the 2005 #29 pick isn't enough, I'm not sure what else we could put together for a shot at Kwame.
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nyk4ever
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3/8/2005  12:22 PM
I think one thing we're all forgetting here is that Kwame is a restricted free-agent so if he wants the Knicks mid-level exception then he'll take it, we'll just have to send Washington compensation. In my mind Kwame does not deserve more then the mid-level exception and I'm not sure how many teams would offer him more then that.
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djsunyc
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3/8/2005  12:23 PM
getting kwame would be like getting crawford - paying $45+ million for a lottery pick. they both were/are really unproven. since we didn't accumulate lottery picks lately and couldn't draft players like this, we have to trade for them at big $$$. i guess it's a twisted way to make up for trading all those previous #1 picks. these two are the EXACT type of players this team should've been drafting over the years but gave up the opportunity to by giving those picks away.

to me, personally, sweetney is off the block. i don't care that we have 5 PF's - none of them are as good or will be as good as sweetney can - AND he's cheap. you do not trade players like that away regardless of the roster situation. i would rather suffer through 2 more years of 5 PF's and enjoy the next 6-8 years of sweetney after it than getting rid of him now.

i'm not sure isiah and ernie could work something out b/c, you know, ernie is good and will not take back any of our bad deals unless major picks are thrown in - and we are not in a position to do that.
djsunyc
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3/8/2005  12:26 PM
secondly, if there isn't that big a demand for him, then he can easily take the route of swift and sign a qualified offer and be unrestricted after next season - i mean that's why we got mo taylor for anyways, right?
crzymdups
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3/8/2005  12:28 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I think one thing we're all forgetting here is that Kwame is a restricted free-agent so if he wants the Knicks mid-level exception then he'll take it, we'll just have to send Washington compensation. In my mind Kwame does not deserve more then the mid-level exception and I'm not sure how many teams would offer him more then that.

If Kwame signs the MLE all Washington has to do is match it. Then they can wait 60 days and trade him anywhere they want. Giving Kwame the MLE sounds like a good idea until you realize it's actually a PAY CUT from his rookie contract since he was the number one pick.

I think the only way we can get Kwame is if for some reason Washington covets Kurt and would take a pick. Again, I really think it would have to be our lotto pick this year.

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TMS
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3/8/2005  12:30 PM
i don't see why Nazr would be the perfect option if WAS already has frontcourt depth in Haywood, Jamison & Etan even w/o Kwame...they would probably be more interested in a young player like Sweetney to return to where he made his college fame to come off the bench backing up Jamison along w/a pick for Kwame if anything imho.
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djsunyc
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3/8/2005  12:36 PM
the appeal of nazr is that he's a serviceable center (which are rare) and has only 1 more year @5.5 mil. so any team that gets him can re-sign him cheap to be a backup C or trade him at the break and get some picks in return, like we did. his value is at it's highest this summer and next trade deadline.

back to kwame - out of all those guys, curry, chandler, etc, kwame would be my #1 choice b/c i see the skills to be dominant on both sides of the ball. dalembert is a close second b/c his defense is SICK and changes the game on the defensive end.
Bonn1997
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3/8/2005  12:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

how about JYD + $3mm, 2005 Pho pick and our 2006 #1 pick for Kwame in a sign and trade?

Thats two (I admit not great) picks for Kwame and the cash will offset some of JYD so he only costs them about $4mm a year for the next 2.

Nazr is the perfet fit for this trade but thats not an option.
The two draft picks are a better fit. I'd bet that with their stacked up front line already they'd have no interest in Nazy (Like TMS and Tom have said) and much more interest in two first round draft picks. Very few teams would prefer Nazy over two picks unless they're trying to win a title right now, which would be about 3 out of the 30 teams.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 03/08/2005 12:57:25]
gunsnewing
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3/8/2005  12:58 PM
Man I would love Kwame over Curry and Chandler. Kwame proved last year when he played really well that he can at least average 12 & 8 as a 21yr old. If our Center for years to come can be Kwame instead of Steven Hunter or Nazr I will do cartwheels before every Knick game!!!
fishmike
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3/8/2005  1:10 PM
I picked Nazr because he's an expiring deal. You put him with cash and its a very cap friendly deal for Wash. Now all the guys your offering have more than next year so its a bigger commitment for Wash. If they are doing that kind of deal I think other teams could offer more than a JYD type of player, thats all.

KT is interesting. Next to Jamison and Haywood he's certainly a good fit for that team. KT and the Pho pick?

I dont know. It is a big gamble but the upside can change the franchise. I think its the kind of bold moves Isiah needs to think about. If we wind up with the #10 pick it would be another HUGE failure for this franchise.

5 games out with just over 20 to play and 4 teams between you and the last playoff spot is a lost season. Play Ariza and Butler and Sweetney and if you win its because the kids are getting better.

We dont need 37 wins and a chance at the next Mike Sweetney. We need 30 wins and a chance at the next Dwane Wade or Lebron or Amare... you get my drift.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
we should see a lot of Kwame tonuight

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