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Anyone notice KVH's #s?
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Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  11:38 PM
12 PPG, 5.8 RPG. He's barely better than TT. It looks like Nazy was the best player involved in that trade
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teslawlo
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1/31/2005  11:39 PM
I was going to mention that but figured it was no use considering the trade was said and done: check out his past several games: 17 mpg off the bench, 5 points off the bench or so.

[Edited by - teslawlo on 01/31/2005 23:40:01]
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Bonn1997
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1/31/2005  11:57 PM
Posted by teslawlo:

I was going to mention that but figured it was no use considering the trade was said and done: check out his past several games: 17 mpg off the bench, 5 points off the bench or so.

[Edited by - teslawlo on 01/31/2005 23:40:01]
It looks like the Knicks got the 1st (Nazy) and 3rd (TT) best players involved in the trade and gave up the 2nd (KVH--barely better than TT) and 4th (Doleac) best.
gunsnewing
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2/1/2005  12:01 AM
i look at it differently. I think they got 2 good commodities for they saved some money and added more tradeable assets.
TMS
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2/1/2005  12:10 AM
career #'s suggest that KVH is more than just "barely better" than TT...i thought the trade was pretty much a wash...i thought the Knicks were playing very well before they made the trade for TT & Nazr & were developing some real chemistry, but i did like the fact that Isiah was trying to make moves w/an eye towards getting more athletic...so far Nazr's exceeded expectations & TT has not lived up to them.

& before anyone starts in w/the "16 & 5 numbers as a starter last year for the Knicks" argument, you can counter that by looking at what he's done as a starter this season...1 season or even 2 doesn't make a player...you have to look at what he's done over his career & judge where he's at in terms of age, etc...Van Horn is 2 years older than TT & has noticeably superior career averages...to say he's just a barely better player than TT is shortchanging him imho.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/1/2005  12:12 AM
Posted by TMS:

career #'s suggest that KVH is more than just "barely better" than TT...i thought the trade was pretty much a wash...i thought the Knicks were playing very well before they made the trade for TT & Nazr & were developing some real chemistry, but i did like the fact that Isiah was trying to make moves w/an eye towards getting more athletic...so far Nazr's exceeded expectations & TT has not lived up to them.

& before anyone starts in w/the "16 & 5 numbers as a starter last year for the Knicks" argument, you can counter that by looking at what he's done as a starter this season...1 season or even 2 doesn't make a player...you have to look at what he's done over his career & judge where he's at in terms of age, etc...Van Horn is 2 years older than TT & has noticeably superior career averages...to say he's just a barely better player than TT is shortchanging him imho.
He's barely better than TT *this* year. In the past, the difference was larger, but that's not the case right now. They're both playing like underachieving bums; Doleac's not doing anything. Nazy is the only player out of the four who's actually having a nice season
gunsnewing
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2/1/2005  12:15 AM
well KVH was off to a great year until he got injured. he's just getting back from it.
Bonn1997
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2/1/2005  12:18 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

well KVH was off to a great year until he got injured. he's just getting back from it.
Well if you're gonna give Van Horn excuses for physical injuries, you've gotta give TT excuses for his own injuries plus having close family members die over the offseason. They both have excuses and are both having awful seasons. Nazy's still the only player of the four involved who's playing well this year
Bonn1997
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2/1/2005  12:21 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

i look at it differently. I think they got 2 good commodities for they saved some money and added more tradeable assets.
I agree with that. Nazy plus TT should have FAR more trade value than Van Horn plus Doleac
gunsnewing
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2/1/2005  12:24 AM
TT hasn't come close to having as good a stretch as KVH had to start the season before he got injured. I' not saying kvh is anything special. I'm just trying to prove that he's always been the better player.
TMS
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2/1/2005  12:37 AM
TT has $27 million left on his contract & he's a career 12 & 4 player...VH has $30 million left on his & he's a career 17 & 7 player...who's more desirable there? i say VH has significantly more trade value to teams than TT if you want to judge them side by side...now you compare Nazr & Doleac, it's fair to say that Nazr has a clear edge there...i see it as pretty much a wash.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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2/1/2005  12:41 AM
No one's gonna care that Van Horn was a 17/7 player if he's aging, injury-prone and putting up TT-like numbers at 12/5
MX25
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2/1/2005  12:45 AM
Bnn...The only reason KVH are down is because he's getting back from injury and not playing alot of mins yet. You can say TT is hurt but TT has done nothing all year. KVH when he was healthy was far better than TT ever was. And what has Nazr done the last month or so..he's been slumping big time and his defense has been terrible.
simrud
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2/1/2005  12:51 AM
What the hell are you even talking about????

KVH was great for the Knicks for a much longer strech then TT was any good for them.

KVH was putting up great numbers before he got hurt, now he is coming back from an injury.

What is even the meaning of this sudden KVH interest? You gay lover IT has been getton too much deserved crticism and you have to come pu with bs wasy to defedn his moronic moves?

KVH is 100 times the player TT is. TT is a waste of space. And Mohmaeed with his range of 0 ft, no defense, etc, etc, etc, f@cking sucsk too!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
crzymdups
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2/1/2005  12:56 AM
the knicks traded kvh at the perfect time: the height of his trade value. look at his games played and numbers since the trade, they're ugly. the whole point of that trade was taking a year off the KVH deal (TT's contract is a year shorter) and adding Nazr. It's a good trade now and it was a good trade then. KVH was playing the best ball of his life. Was it cruel to trade him? Sure. But the best ball of his life only got this team to 25-29 at the time of the deal. They finished 14-14 last season with Tim and Nazr with no Allan or Deke. All these people acting like the trade destroyed last season need to calm down.
¿ △ ?
simrud
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2/1/2005  12:58 AM
Keep spinnin it the way you like it.

That improvement was ofcourse due to TT and Mohammed being here.

Not at all the fact of how KVH had to play so many games w/out Marbury being here.

But ofcourse, everything IT does is gospel. All praise Thomas...
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gunsnewing
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2/1/2005  1:05 AM
i guarantee you KVH #s in milwalkee were at least 17 & 7 before he got injured this year. i think you should go a little deeper than overall pts per game.
crzymdups
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2/1/2005  1:12 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

i guarantee you KVH #s in milwalkee were at least 17 & 7 before he got injured this year. i think you should go a little deeper than overall pts per game.

Fine. Let's dissect Milwaukee's record this year. KVH doesn't suck, he's better than Tim Thomas, but it was still a great trade. KVH has plummeted downhill and Nazr has gone up. And, AGAIN, the main point of the trade is that TT's contract is one season shorter than Van Horn's. That's huge. Everyone wants to talk about all the money Isiah spent to acquire Marbury, how about the money he saved ($28 million counting the luxury tax) to jettison Van Horn right before he suffered two injuries in less than eight months?
¿ △ ?
gunsnewing
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2/1/2005  1:18 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by gunsnewing:

i guarantee you KVH #s in milwalkee were at least 17 & 7 before he got injured this year. i think you should go a little deeper than overall pts per game.

Fine. Let's dissect Milwaukee's record this year. KVH doesn't suck, he's better than Tim Thomas, but it was still a great trade. KVH has plummeted downhill and Nazr has gone up. And, AGAIN, the main point of the trade is that TT's contract is one season shorter than Van Horn's. That's huge. Everyone wants to talk about all the money Isiah spent to acquire Marbury, how about the money he saved ($28 million counting the luxury tax) to jettison Van Horn right before he suffered two injuries in less than eight months?

oh i agree. it was a good trade. im just saying KVH is and always has been a better player.
islesfan
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2/1/2005  8:32 AM
Anyone notice the Knicks record since the KVH trade?

Anyone notice the Knicks record since the Marbury trade?

Anyone notice the Knicks record since Isiah was made GM?

If the point was to increase trade value then wouldn't having a larger contract be more valuable since it allows for greater cap space? So how is TT more valuable than VH who makes more money?

It's amazing how lame Nazr's game is when he doesn't have Marbury penetrating and setting him up with easy baskets that you or I could make. And his defense is still pathetic.

If TT averaged "only" 5.8 rebs you'd be throwing him a party.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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