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Jay NYC's Pseudotrade Analysis: New Orleans, Cleveland and NY
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JayNYC
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1/21/2005  11:28 AM
An 8 player swap in which...

New Orleans trades:
C Jamaal Magloire
PG Baron Davis
SG Jimmy Jackson

The Hornets receive:
C Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PG Jeff McInnis
SG Dajuan Wagner
Future 1st Rd Pick via Cleveland (Lottery Protected)
2005 2nd Rd pick via NYK

Cleveland trades:
C Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PG Jeff McInnis
SG Dajuan Wagner
Future 1st Rd Pick via Cleveland (Lottery Protected)

The Cavs receive:
C Nazr Mohammed
PF Vin Baker
PG Baron Davis
SG Jimmy Jackson

New York trades:
C Nazr Mohammed
PF Vin Baker
2005 2nd rd pick

Our Knicks get:
C Jamaal Magloire

POST ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS TRADE???
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TMS
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1/21/2005  11:49 AM
what's to consider if you're a knicks fan? that would be an absolute steal...i don't know if NO does it though.
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NYK3
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1/21/2005  11:55 AM
I'm all for it but im not sure Cleveland would do this, Yes I know they get Baron Davis and JJ but they're giving up Big Z for Mohammed and Vin Baker, I highly doubt they would do that
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JayNYC
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1/21/2005  12:42 PM
Here is my logic behind this trade:

New Orleans: They need to get bigger in order to compete out west. They also would like some cap flexibility. I believe this trade potentially fills both needs with Big Z. They don't have to give up Baron Davis or Magloire, but the sentiment is neither player wants to be there; and quite honestly they will have a hard time winning with those two as primary pieces vs the Western elite. The coup here is:
an additional 1st rd draft pick. You have to believe that they will get at the very least a Top 5 Lottery Pick. Based on this assumption, they can target potential star quality lottery picks (Best Available depending on where they fall) ie: Marvin Williams or Chris Paul, and with Cleveland's lower first rd pick they can go after another need area that compliments the core. Keep in mind that McInnis is a free agent, as is Illgauskas but they would likely make a long term commit to him. 7ft centers with talent are hard to come by these days.

C- Illgauskas
PF- PJ Brown
SF- Marvin Williams (Top 5) 6'9 230
SG- J.R. Smith
PG- Jarrett Jack (Lower 1st rd) 6'3 202

If all goes according to theory, they would be more equipped to handle the Western conference style of play. They get younger, taller and more explosive. (Don't sleep on Jarrett Jack, he might be a poor mans Baron Davis)


Cleveland: Does this trade because:
A) Baron Davis is a Paul Silas type of guy, its no secret Paul Silas would like to get another star player to compliment Lebron.

B)Illgauskas does not fit into the long term plans of the new Cleveland ownership. (At least thats whats being reported) Nazr Mohammed is more efficient in rebounding and FG percentage. (He is younger and although does not put up the same offensive numbers as Big Z, The Cavs wouldn't see that much of a drop in terms of production. Vin Baker, well he's just a throw in.. BUT Cleveland did have an interest in him this past offseason.

C) They get much needed outside shooting. Jimmy Jackson will stretch opposing defenses, allowing Lebron and Baron to do their thing. This move actually makes them more diverse in the Cav's offensive schemes. Lets face it, the east is guard oriented. Having a more wide open style of play will make the Cavs more competitive.

C- Mohammed
PF- Gooden
SF- King James
SG- J.Jackson
PG- Davis

The Knicks:
Its no secret, we get a proven low post player that is alot closer to 7ft our center of the future. Magloire can bang in the post and play D. Nuff said! This would also, improve us on other levels especially if the Rose/Marshall for K.T. and Penny swap goes down.

C- Magloire
PF- Marshall
SF- Rose
SG- Crawford
PG- Marbury
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crzymdups
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1/21/2005  12:46 PM
I would love to get Magloire, but I'm sure the Cavs would rather have Magloire than Baron.

Also, word out of NO is they don't want to trade Magloire, only Baron.
¿ △ ?
TMS
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1/21/2005  12:49 PM
replace that 2nd rounder w/an unrestricted 1st rounder from NY to New Orleans & i think they would do it...not sure how fair that would be for the Knicks tho.
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JayNYC
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1/21/2005  1:07 PM
TMS,

Lets say the 1st rd pick from NYK to New Orleans was the sticking point?
I would certainly include the pick, with some reservations of course. But, YES I'd be willing to part with it, if it meant us getting Jamal Magloire.

We don't use our draft picks anyway. Why not go with a proven player, just reaching his prime at 26 yrs old, that fits a need? Its doubtful, that we will draft a center better than Magloire. I know most people believe that we need to rebuild through the draft. But the truth is, we can't. If this trade were at all feasible, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Besides, we can target Stromile Swift in the offseason

Magloire
Swift
Rose
Crawford
Marbury

NYK would matter again!!! I know its a dream, but it could certainly become reality if this trade was pursued!!! Somebody email this to Isiah, and tell him to contact the good GM's of Cleveland and New Orleans to engineer this deal. I won't ask for any credit.

[Edited by - JayNYC on 01/21/2005 13:09:12]
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
TMS
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1/21/2005  1:16 PM
Magloire for Nazr, Vin's expiring deal & an unrestricted 1st rounder i would do if you could guarantee me that we'd make the playoffs this year...i wouldn't be confident in only adding Magloire to this team & making the playoffs...there'd have to be other deals made to improve our current roster for me to make that trade, like the Penny & KT for Rose & Marshall deal for example...then we'd have a nice team this year that can certainly come back & win this division:

C - Magloire / Elden Campbell (remainder of the MLE if UTA waives him)
PF - Sweetney / JYD
SF - Marshall / Ariza / TT
SG - Crawford / Rose
PG - Marbury / Brewer / Moochie
IR - Houston / Sundov
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Nalod
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1/21/2005  1:22 PM
Read Vescey today. The Baron has a bad back, and insurance don't cover it. He is untradeable.

Makes allans deal look good!
JayNYC
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1/21/2005  1:33 PM
I agree that the Knicks could benefit from making the deal with Toronto. But the truth is, I think acquiring Magloire independent of additional trades would still be a plus.

As an aside, If Jalen Rose is brought to NYK via trade it is highly unlikely that he comes off the bench. I know most would like to push Sweetney as a starter, but if Marshall and Rose comes, they would be our new starting 3 & 4's respectively. IMO.

Magloire
Marshall/Sweetney/J.Williams
Rose/T.Thomas/Ariza
Crawford/Houston
Marbury/Norris

Sundov/Brewer(I.R.)

Mike Sweetney and J.Williams have been splitting time as a backup center.
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JayNYC
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1/21/2005  1:40 PM
Nalod, when a team doesn't provide insurance on a maximum contract player.. It doesn't mean that the player can't be traded. It does mean that should the injury worsen and the player is forced to retire; the team that trades for the injured player is now completely responsible for paying the remaining portion his salary.

Its an unneccessary gamble, But teams will take that risk on Baron Davis I can assure you that. Also there are injury exceptions, some how loophole clauses always seem to be worked out legally.

SO, this trade could happen IF it presented itself.

[Edited by - JayNYC on 01/21/2005 13:56:01]
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
TMS
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1/21/2005  1:45 PM
Posted by JayNYC:
As an aside, If Jalen Rose is brought to NYK via trade it is highly unlikely that he comes off the bench. I know most would like to push Sweetney as a starter, but if Marshall and Rose comes, they would be our new starting 3 & 4's respectively. IMO.

i think you're right, that's probably how it would play out.
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gunsnewing
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1/21/2005  1:56 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by JayNYC:
As an aside, If Jalen Rose is brought to NYK via trade it is highly unlikely that he comes off the bench. I know most would like to push Sweetney as a starter, but if Marshall and Rose comes, they would be our new starting 3 & 4's respectively. IMO.

i think you're right, that's probably how it would play out.

yep thats exactly what i said yesterday. I'm not sure Sweetney is ready to start every game. if we were rebuilding it would be one thing to start ariza and sweetney but after making a trade like that you clearly aren't. I don't mind having Sweetney develop on the bench if it's for a guy like Marshall...not for Kurt. Plus with Kurt gone Sweetney would get more minutes anyway because I doubt Marshall would demand to play the way Kurt does
TMS
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1/21/2005  1:59 PM
you can also play Marshall at the 3 at times if you go big because he likes to shoot that 3.
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JayNYC
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1/21/2005  2:09 PM
No question Marshall would be the key to this deal in my opinion.. speaking in terms of the Toronto/NYK swap. Not my Pseudotrade.

He brings an added dimension to the Knicks. The belief is that his presence will create better spacing on the floor for penetration, which would allow Steph and Crawford to have more of an impact in games. He can play two positions, and like I said will certainly stretch opposing defenses.

My only question is, does he have a strong enough back to the basket game and will he hit the boards hard enough. Defensively, I think he has better lateral quickness than Kurt Thomas so that should be a plus. In the post, I don't know.. I think K.T.'s defense is stronger. Overall, this trade would be good for the Knicks if it happened. As I said yesterday, I wouldn't be totally opposed to a Hardaway for Rose swap straight up either!!!
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
gunsnewing
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1/21/2005  2:14 PM
Posted by JayNYC:

No question Marshall would be the key to this deal in my opinion.. speaking in terms of the Toronto/NYK swap. Not my Pseudotrade.

He brings an added dimension to the Knicks. The belief is that his presence will create better spacing on the floor for penetration, which would allow Steph and Crawford to have more of an impact in games. He can play two positions, and like I said will certainly stretch opposing defenses.

My only question is, does he have a strong enough back to the basket game and will he hit the boards hard enough. Defensively, I think he has better lateral quickness than Kurt Thomas so that should be a plus. In the post, I don't know.. I think K.T.'s defense is stronger. Overall, this trade would be good for the Knicks if it happened. As I said yesterday, I wouldn't be totally opposed to a Hardaway for Rose swap straight up either!!!

here's the thing...Penny for Rose straight up doesn
t really help us..all it does is add to the glut. I would rather justsit on penny/TT and trade them later on. Jalen Rose isn't going to make us a top team in the East. Jalen and Marshall will. I would consider Jalen and one of their lottery protected picks they got from New Jersey. But just for Jalen straight up..HELL NO!!! not worth it!
JayNYC
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1/21/2005  2:36 PM
Penny for Rose straight up doesnt really help us.

That is debateable.. IMO. YES, we'd be adding another nasty contract. But to say that Rose wouldn't help increase our standings is foolish. He is better than T.Thomas, Allan Houston and Penny Hardaway at this point. He can play 3 positions, and is another legitimate threat that can cause opposing teams headaches. I'm not saying excluding Donyell Marshall would be the wise choice, of course I'd like him here as well! However, I am saying that if for some odd act of faith, lets say Donyell Marshall isn't included... The Jalen Rose for Penny swap would still be a positive deal and should be finalized. Its not like Jalen Rose is a bum, he hasn't been a negative influence on his team thus far. In fact, I think we are seeing him reach a maturity level.. think about it, the Jalen Rose of old would have demanded a trade long ago especially if he were the leading scorer on his team and forced to come off the bench in the past. He should be commended. Those were the knocks on Jalen's career. (Attitude and selfishness) He has clearly, changed his mentality if this season can serve as an indictator. I would do it without asking for a draft pick!

[Edited by - JayNYC on 01/21/2005 14:36:40]
Inhale deep like the words of my breath/ I never sleep, cause sleep is the cousin of death-- Circa 1994 Nasty Nas: NY State of Mind
gunsnewing
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1/21/2005  2:40 PM
Posted by JayNYC:
Penny for Rose straight up doesnt really help us.

That is debateable.. IMO. YES, we'd be adding another nasty contract. But to say that Rose wouldn't help increase our standings is foolish. He is better than T.Thomas, Allan Houston and Penny Hardaway at this point. He can play 3 positions, and is another legitimate threat that can cause opposing teams headaches. I'm not saying excluding Donyell Marshall would be the wise choice, of course I'd like him here as well! However, I am saying that if for some odd act of faith, lets say Donyell Marshall isn't included... The Jalen Rose for Penny swap would still be a positive deal and should be finalized. Its not like Jalen Rose is a bum, he hasn't been a negative influence on his team thus far. In fact, I think we are seeing him reach a maturity level.. think about it, the Jalen Rose of old would have demanded a trade long ago especially if he were the leading scorer on his team and forced to come off the bench in the past. He should be commended. Those were the knocks on Jalen's career. (Attitude and selfishness) He has clearly, changed his mentality if this season can serve as an indictator. I would do it without asking for a draft pick!

[Edited by - JayNYC on 01/21/2005 14:36:40]

you need to throw in at least a draft pick when trying to get rid of a bad contract. Penny's $15mil expiring contract is worth a lot more than another guard. you have to turn Penn into a good bigman
NYKBocker
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1/21/2005  2:41 PM
Under league rules, you cannot include Jim Jackson in any package deal until after the trade deadline. He can only be traded by himself to another team with equal contract value.
EnySpree
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1/21/2005  2:45 PM
Posted by JayNYC:

An 8 player swap in which...

New Orleans trades:
C Jamaal Magloire
PG Baron Davis
SG Jimmy Jackson

The Hornets receive:
C Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PG Jeff McInnis
SG Dajuan Wagner
Future 1st Rd Pick via Cleveland (Lottery Protected)
2005 2nd Rd pick via NYK

Cleveland trades:
C Zydrunas Ilgauskas
PG Jeff McInnis
SG Dajuan Wagner
Future 1st Rd Pick via Cleveland (Lottery Protected)

The Cavs receive:
C Nazr Mohammed
PF Vin Baker
PG Baron Davis
SG Jimmy Jackson

New York trades:
C Nazr Mohammed
PF Vin Baker
2005 2nd rd pick

Our Knicks get:
C Jamaal Magloire

POST ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THIS TRADE???

Nice!!!!

I like the idea of doing a two for one trade.

Clevland rocks too hard though....they get a monster line-up.

NO gets off with some great parting gifts....Z's contract, some picks, McInnis would be nice to hold on to....and Wagner might get healthy sooner or later unless he gets polio or some other crazy illness, lol.
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