not that I want to rebuild but why is it that everyone says "rebuilding is not possibe in New York"

in my opinion that is selling NY fans short. I mean look how excited we are about Ariza & Sweetney. We have the higgest payroll in the eague with a sub .500 record yet people still come to see the games. I think there woud be even more of a buzz if we had some 1st round draft picks on the team instead of penny, houston, TT, KT. Just keep in my that Dolan most likely is the one telling Isiah that rebuilding is not an option. IMO he's just scared to try something different. It will work..why is it that it can't work in NY! thats nonsense!

Have you seen fans on this site alone after a losing streak? I'm not sure many of them could take it for a few years.
I will say it again, NY is rebuilding...just not in the typical approach. We finally have some young guys that are a big part of the team. We have draft picks and a GM with a great drafting history. Expiring contracts coming up can hopefully grab us a talented big.
NY fans say they could be patient, but that is all talk. Actions speak louder than words, and I have not seen too many patient fans lately.

Posted by MaTT4281:

Have you seen fans on this site alone after a losing streak? I'm not sure many of them could take it for a few years.
I will say it again, NY is rebuilding...just not in the typical approach. We finally have some young guys that are a big part of the team. We have draft picks and a GM with a great drafting history. Expiring contracts coming up can hopefully grab us a talented big.
NY fans say they could be patient, but that is all talk. Actions speak louder than words, and I have not seen too many patient fans lately.

but thats because we expect more out of a $103mil team. I really think NY would embrace the rebuilding process. As long as they trust the guy running the show. and i trust Zeke.

I'm thinking, even if with a miracle we get Brand we will still be the same old Knicks that keep coming up short of a title. now if we can lose for a couple of years and draft the next parick ewing we'll finally see a chanpionship

To get a franchise player (big man) I think we would have to get a top 3 pick....which means alot of losses.

Posted by Vmart:

This rebuilding process won't take that long. All that is needed is to Start: Ariza, Sweetney, Nazr, Marbury and Crawford.

Trade off Nazr for a legit big man that has shot blocking capabilities. Brown, Dalembert, are young and very capable of making the kNicks a better defensive team. The talent is there.

Knicks have a nucleus of young players:

Ariza sf
Sweetney pf
Brown C
Crawford sg
Marbury pg.

The problem with the Knicks is the lack of trust in the young players. Crawford takes more bad shots than anyone I have seen and he is rewarded with trust. He has absolutely no defensive prowess and gets rewarded with trust. Sweetney no respect, Ariza plays harder than TT and is probably a better SF than JYD but because he is a rookie the Knicks don't trust him fully.

People say that you can't rebuild in NY I don't buy it during the mid and early 80's the Knicks were all about rebuilding they put out such crappy team and the fans manages to with stand it. The NY Giants went with Manning for the future when they were in the playoff hunt probably the best thing they could have done for the future of the organization. The Knicks just have to do the inevitable and thats switch the PF and SF spot right now with Sweetney and Ariza. I will respect the Knicks more even if they go on to the lottery if the play Sweetney and Ariza. This way atleast I know and fans know that this is about the future.

Good point Vmart, with zeke you don't know what we are trying to do.

If you believe in the youngins play'em if not, stop trying to force feed us these overpaid underachievers.

If you believe in the youngins play'em if not, stop trying to force feed us these overpaid underachievers.

playa... if you know your going to trade TT/Penny/Nazr/KT in the next year AND you not winning a title now doesnt it make sense to play these guys? Do you want to trade them for anything of value? Or do you want to market them to other teams as starters that can contribute?

good topic you have created gunsewing
but rebuilding depends on what do you mean by rebuilding

if you mean rebuild to the point that the knicks are so bad that they can get a top lottery pick then i don't think that will be possible

or rebuild to the point where they dump salary and get under the cap
then i don't think that is possible either

or at least i haven't seen it

but thats because we expect more out of a $103mil team. I really think NY would embrace the rebuilding process. As long as they trust the guy running the show. and i trust Zeke.

Great point. If we were in the Hawks situation rightn now im sure there wouldn't be to much negativity since we know we would have money to sign FAs and we would be looking at picks and prospects and fas.

But look how the Knicks were constucted when Zeke took over. Houston 17mil until 07, Eisley 6mil until 06, Spoon 6mil until 06, Anderson 7mil until 07, thats 36mil guranteed long term deals *per yr*.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 01/16/2005 16:39:47]

Posted by fishmike:

If you believe in the youngins play'em if not, stop trying to force feed us these overpaid underachievers.

playa... if you know your going to trade TT/Penny/Nazr/KT in the next year AND you not winning a title now doesnt it make sense to play these guys? Do you want to trade them for anything of value? Or do you want to market them to other teams as starters that can contribute?

Fish, my thinking is totally different from most people. I suggest the KNicks make the commitment to the young. What ever high priced players they have are serviceable players and not worth their contract. Penny, TT, H20 are weak and they come off the books next year well H20 has some time left though. I would rather let them walk after next year than take on another over the hill on the down slide superstar. With one move the KNicks have Brown and the folowing players Ariza, Sweetney, Brown (in a deal), Crawford and Marbury this team will make the playoffs this year they will only get better with time. The bench has vets on it to back the young up so it would be strong enough for this year. Lets face it you are trying to keep value to the vets by playing them when that my friend is the wrong thinking. The Vets on this team don't have the value you think they have its the contract that are of value when it comes to the end. Play them or not they will hold about the same value. I suggest he KNicks let TT and Penny walk once the move for Kwamwe Brown or Dalembert is made. This team will only need solid role player off the bench and those can be gotten for less.

[Edited by - Vmart on 01/16/2005 20:35:37]

People like to claim that New York has the smartest fans. If so, they should be willing to accept a rebuild.

people are patient when the plan follows what they think and what the media thinks a plan should be. if mitch lawrence, peter vescey, etc. all agreed with a gm's plan, chances are, many fans will as well. it's all about perception and ego.

"why isn't he rebuilding like i think he should? man, he sucks."

it's just the way it is. the media is always harping on teams to "blow it up" and rebuild. every single time. not once do they mention the current team's situation and not once do they offer a plan. they just say "blow it up".

it's a very easy thing to say but very hard thing to do, ESPECIALLY with the situation isiah walked into.

now if all these years, the media kept saying "rebuild on the fly" as opposed to blow it up, then chances are, more fans will agree with that philosophy.

i don't think there's a set way to "rebuild". each and every situation is different. will fans be patient? i highly doubt it in new york. look at the mets. they were in rebuild mode this season and i swear 1/2 the callers on WFAN were constantly bitching and moaning.

it's very easy to "hate" as bigpimpin said and very easy to criticize. and when one thinks that way and goes with it, it's fun b/c it causes heated discussions. this is how newspaper writers and media people make their careers. it's much tougher to even say something as simple as "hey, let's wait and see what's gonna happen."

this has been discussed over and over again. i'm not even sure why i just posted this when it won't change anyone's thinking.