Nalod wrote:Should Melo number be retired was a knick?

I say no. Melo played 7 seasons (412 games) vs.8 years in Denver (564 games) of his 19 years in the league. took more 3's with us then Denver but times were changing. His numbers nearly identical to Denver years.
To me being HOF does not do it alone. Otherwise you put King, Mcadoo, and Haywood up there.
Yes, Melo's years of service was more than they were. But other than 7 years of good numbers, what did the teams do? IM not blaming him, im just stating we had one nice season. We had 5 retiring players the 54 season win with Woodson. Allan Houston played 9 years, 602 games, more playoff games, a memorable shot that prolonged a run that got us to finals. Not a HOF player but was part of a winning culture. If you put Melo up there you put Allan and perhaps King. Bernard played 206 games over parts of 4 seasons.
If Denver wants to retire his number, thats for them to decide. Knicks drew a line with whom hangs up there. Guerin and Ewing understandable given their very long career defining tenure. Melo scored a lot of points and his true HOF cred is also due to his olympic greatness and NCAA title. Melo alone as a knick does not get him to HOF. Melo as a Nugget does not do it either on its own. In those scenarios he is a Big Dog Robinson or Glen Rice. Not saying they were as good as he was. Just saying they were prolific scorers with shorter careers. Melo's long career aggregate and then the other accolades for sure put him in. He is well deserving given the body of work in his career as an NCAA Champ, Prolific NBA scorer with a long career, and Olympian!

Looking back I am surprised that Haywood is in the HOF. He really only had like 4-5 great years with Seattle. He was only 26 when he was traded to the Knicks and he was already like an old guy. I think he was heavy into coke then. Melo's career just with the Knicks is probably better than Haywoods whole career or close to it. What do you think?

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franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

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thanks for sharing - that was the only 2 minutes of content from the NBA All Star Week End that I cared to watch - and honestly, not even sure he is that amazing of a dunker. He basically did the same thing - jump over, grab ball, dunk.

I hear you and also thought he used the prop to push off and give him a few more hops, especially the tap the rim dunk. But then I quickly said, if it’s that easy go to the gym and try it. And I’m a former dunker mind you. So I went to gym to start by taping the back board as a warm and quickly realized something. I cant dunk a donut right now.

So props to MAC for saving the dunk contest. Props to all the small dunkers.

But until there more money for the players, it’s not the best ROI for players making 50-60 million per. I say they open it up to non nba players, which ironically includes MAC.

Nalod wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Should Melo number be retired was a knick?

I say no. Melo played 7 seasons (412 games) vs.8 years in Denver (564 games) of his 19 years in the league. took more 3's with us then Denver but times were changing. His numbers nearly identical to Denver years.
To me being HOF does not do it alone. Otherwise you put King, Mcadoo, and Haywood up there.
Yes, Melo's years of service was more than they were. But other than 7 years of good numbers, what did the teams do? IM not blaming him, im just stating we had one nice season. We had 5 retiring players the 54 season win with Woodson. Allan Houston played 9 years, 602 games, more playoff games, a memorable shot that prolonged a run that got us to finals. Not a HOF player but was part of a winning culture. If you put Melo up there you put Allan and perhaps King. Bernard played 206 games over parts of 4 seasons.
If Denver wants to retire his number, thats for them to decide. Knicks drew a line with whom hangs up there. Guerin and Ewing understandable given their very long career defining tenure. Melo scored a lot of points and his true HOF cred is also due to his olympic greatness and NCAA title. Melo alone as a knick does not get him to HOF. Melo as a Nugget does not do it either on its own. In those scenarios he is a Big Dog Robinson or Glen Rice. Not saying they were as good as he was. Just saying they were prolific scorers with shorter careers. Melo's long career aggregate and then the other accolades for sure put him in. He is well deserving given the body of work in his career as an NCAA Champ, Prolific NBA scorer with a long career, and Olympian!

Looking back I am surprised that Haywood is in the HOF. He really only had like 4-5 great years with Seattle. He was only 26 when he was traded to the Knicks and he was already like an old guy. I think he was heavy into coke then. Melo's career just with the Knicks is probably better than Haywoods whole career or close to it. What do you think?

Again, nothing in Melos career points to anything less than HOF.
Haywood statistically was not that bad in NY despite his decline and heavy into coke here. Sad. We traded him to NOLA Jazz and he had a nice very brief run there.

His Seasons in Seattle were dominant. All NBA 1st for two years, and 2nd for another. This guy was in Seattle when they were a young franchise and in an era were there was one national game a week nobody really saw him. Btw its why Allstar games were cool. We got to see players like him and Connie Hawkins who rarely were on TV. this in the Era where Home knick games were not televised (black out rules) and away games were late at night. I was very very young then.

As a player he was borderline HOF NBA player but this is not the "NBA HOF". Its the Basketball HOF. Three things thing put him over:

1. 1968 olympics were boycotted by many athletes in protest of USA civil rights. Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Calvin Murphy and Bob Lanier did not play. Remember the NBA did not draft players until they were 22 or had completed 4 years in NCAA. Freshman played Jr varsity then played. its why Bill Walton did not play 4 years at UCLA varsity. He was Player of the year as a sophomore. Things were very different. Most Olympic team members were all American COLLEGE players but they still held tryouts. Future NBA stars JoJo White and Charlie Scott played in the 1968 games. A 19 year from Trinidad Junior college (youngest American ever to play) tried out for the team and made it. That would be Spencer Haywood. Nobody heard of him and he was the best player on that team that won the gold. He was incredible!!!

2. ABA matters for career and HOF. Haywood played one year at Detroit Mercy college but remember there was no "Hardship rule" then. Young players went to the ABA. Spencer Haywood played for the Denver Rockets club and was both Rookie of the year AND MVP!!! Avg 19.5 Rebs and 30 pts per game. Runner up was Rick Barry who played for the Nets.

3. He sued the NBA as Seattle owner had signed him but league after 30 games disqualified his contract. The outcome was the "hardship draft" and eventually players could play out of high school and before 4 years of school. I can't do it justice but this is a good description and it was an important ruling on a land mark case that changed the landscape of the league.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haywood_v._National_Basketball_Association#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20his%20claim,accordance%20with%20the%20Sherman%20Act.

Add those three things and it put him over the top many years after he retired. David Thompson got into the HOF much sooner with a lessor resume. No doubt an incredible talent that Cocaine robbed him also. Haywood should have been in years sooner.

nice insight

I feel it's for the younger fans (5-18) who want to see flashy plays and dunks. It was never ever taken that seriously even when I was a kid in the 90s but from what I've read, players today don't even try or make it a secret they don't care and that's the issue. I don't see how it changes because it's a product of today's modern player who takes games off for no reason and are very entitled. This new format seems very corny and stupid and I read there was only like 40 minutes of real basketball played in a 3 hour program. You can thank Adam Silver! Having the game on TNT with that clown crew also contributes to the game not being taken seriously. If you had it on ABC with Breen and that crew, they would at least talk basketball. How are you supposed to take a game seriously when you have idiots like Shaq and Draymond talking nonsense?

There is no solution because I think Silver loves this and this is what he wants but I would go back to the original format of East versus West cause at least it's more basketball and that 5-18 year old kid can watch some dunks and flashy plays. And have the game on ABC!

SergioNYK wrote:I stopped watching and caring about the All-Star game a looong time ago. It's just not for me and feel I grew out of it. It's like the NFL ProBowl.

I feel it's for the younger fans (5-18) who want to see flashy plays and dunks. It was never ever taken that seriously even when I was a kid in the 90s but from what I've read, players today don't even try or make it a secret they don't care and that's the issue. I don't see how it changes because it's a product of today's modern player who takes games off for no reason and are very entitled. This new format seems very corny and stupid and I read there was only like 40 minutes of real basketball played in a 3 hour program. You can thank Adam Silver! Having the game on TNT with that clown crew also contributes to the game not being taken seriously. If you had it on ABC with Breen and that crew, they would at least talk basketball. How are you supposed to take a game seriously when you have idiots like Shaq and Draymond talking nonsense?

There is no solution because I think Silver loves this and this is what he wants but I would go back to the original format of East versus West cause at least it's more basketball and that 5-18 year old kid can watch some dunks and flashy plays. And have the game on ABC!

Silver has an issue given the sponsorships attached. Also the TV time and they need programming. The teams and players all need a mid season (its like 2/3rds) break also and this fills in time. the legions of assistant coaches need it as well!
Host cities do get a buzz and the games are well attended.

If the networks, audience in person and sponsors are happy perhaps its not totally broken.
Critics don't like it and I agree its awful. Its a hype show. I agree as do most of us. I don't have any clue to how to fix it but I also can't say its an abject failure. Last Time I loved a game was 1975 when Clyde was MVP. As I have said, the Allstar allure dissipated with more and more games on TV and markets lifting local black outs.
Is it a financial failure? It not the game of youth. Does that make it totally broken or just partial?