Now when I say we need a 6th man, I’m not talking about a Hart replacement. I’m talking about someone who can carry offense in some ways. Hart will do what he does whether he’s off the bench or starting in place of OG, Donte or Randle if and when one of them is out. But we need someone who can really bring offense to the second unit to prop it up at times. We need a real Quickley replacement, regardless of position. It will be bogey plus picks that don’t mortgage the future.

Imagine if we could move that package for Kuzma and get him to buy into a bench role as a 2-way combo forward who can score, rebound and playmake? Or maybe it’s as simple as revisiting Brogdon, a former 6th man of the year. Similar to his teammate Jerami Grant. Does he buy into a 6th man role if it means competing for a championship? We need that level of guy. Knicks healthy starting 5 is elite. We need to get that elite bench back. Imagine back a couple of years ago when the starting 5 was trash but the bench would carry this team to wins. What if we could put that all together? Outside of a Giannis or maybe PG level player coming onto the market, that should be the goal. Find that guy.

Brunson
Donte
OG
Randle
Hart

Bench:
Josh Hart
Robinson
Miles
Bojan
Precious

I’ve thought you take the 2/3 draft picks this year and try to get some depth wing defenders/power forwards that can contribute through defense and the occasional 3pt shot.

I agree that we are right there, and had we been healthy this year, we’d be there with the Celtics- maybe 2-2 or even up.

Window is 2 years with this crew.

I imagine the FO is looking at packaging Bojan with other players (Robinson, Prescious, or Miles) and draft picks, possibly ones we make this summer - so looking at Mid December as the soonest that deal can be made.

Knixkik wrote:I really feel great about the healthy starting 5: Brunson, Donte, OG, Randle, Hartenstein. Brunson has arrived as a top 10 guy and one of the best closers in the league. Randle is a satisfactory 2nd option. Donte, OG, and Hartenstein are the cream of the crop as far as elite level role players. What they do, they do among the best in the league. If you can upgrade from Randle to Giannis, sure, you do it. But otherwise it’s really tough. I’d gladly go after P George and Bridges, the 2 most common names floating around. But P George is older and injury prone, so replacing Randle with him shortens the window for contention. Bridges replacing Randle doesn’t really help with the lack of scoring around Brunson. And adding him to the lineup alongside Randle gives a good scoring option with the defense, but if you’re replacing Donte with him you lose the shooting gravity. It’s just really tough to replace any of our starting 5 in a vacuum due to their individual skill sets being perfectly suited around Brunson (and Randle to a lesser extent.) long story, longer, the starting 5 fits like a glove and we saw that in a one month sample size.

Now when I say we need a 6th man, I’m not talking about a Hart replacement. I’m talking about someone who can carry offense in some ways. Hart will do what he does whether he’s off the bench or starting in place of OG, Donte or Randle if and when one of them is out. But we need someone who can really bring offense to the second unit to prop it up at times. We need a real Quickley replacement, regardless of position. It will be bogey plus picks that don’t mortgage the future.

Imagine if we could move that package for Kuzma and get him to buy into a bench role as a 2-way combo forward who can score, rebound and playmake? Or maybe it’s as simple as revisiting Brogdon, a former 6th man of the year. Similar to his teammate Jerami Grant. Does he buy into a 6th man role if it means competing for a championship? We need that level of guy. Knicks healthy starting 5 is elite. We need to get that elite bench back. Imagine back a couple of years ago when the starting 5 was trash but the bench would carry this team to wins. What if we could put that all together? Outside of a Giannis or maybe PG level player coming onto the market, that should be the goal. Find that guy.

I don't want to divert your topic - I think you are spot on with the 6th man upgrade - but I want to ask everyone if there is even a semi viable upgrade over Randle that is out there.

Giannis. He prob is not available for at least a year?

Paul George? He has LAC and Philly options and would need to specifically pick the Knicks?

Booker? Not for a couple years?

Donovan is awkward.

Who else is even a remote'ish possibility?

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I really feel great about the healthy starting 5: Brunson, Donte, OG, Randle, Hartenstein. Brunson has arrived as a top 10 guy and one of the best closers in the league. Randle is a satisfactory 2nd option. Donte, OG, and Hartenstein are the cream of the crop as far as elite level role players. What they do, they do among the best in the league. If you can upgrade from Randle to Giannis, sure, you do it. But otherwise it’s really tough. I’d gladly go after P George and Bridges, the 2 most common names floating around. But P George is older and injury prone, so replacing Randle with him shortens the window for contention. Bridges replacing Randle doesn’t really help with the lack of scoring around Brunson. And adding him to the lineup alongside Randle gives a good scoring option with the defense, but if you’re replacing Donte with him you lose the shooting gravity. It’s just really tough to replace any of our starting 5 in a vacuum due to their individual skill sets being perfectly suited around Brunson (and Randle to a lesser extent.) long story, longer, the starting 5 fits like a glove and we saw that in a one month sample size.

Now when I say we need a 6th man, I’m not talking about a Hart replacement. I’m talking about someone who can carry offense in some ways. Hart will do what he does whether he’s off the bench or starting in place of OG, Donte or Randle if and when one of them is out. But we need someone who can really bring offense to the second unit to prop it up at times. We need a real Quickley replacement, regardless of position. It will be bogey plus picks that don’t mortgage the future.

Imagine if we could move that package for Kuzma and get him to buy into a bench role as a 2-way combo forward who can score, rebound and playmake? Or maybe it’s as simple as revisiting Brogdon, a former 6th man of the year. Similar to his teammate Jerami Grant. Does he buy into a 6th man role if it means competing for a championship? We need that level of guy. Knicks healthy starting 5 is elite. We need to get that elite bench back. Imagine back a couple of years ago when the starting 5 was trash but the bench would carry this team to wins. What if we could put that all together? Outside of a Giannis or maybe PG level player coming onto the market, that should be the goal. Find that guy.

I don't want to divert your topic - I think you are spot on with the 6th man upgrade - but I want to ask everyone if there is even a semi viable upgrade over Randle that is out there.

Giannis. He prob is not available for at least a year?

Paul George? He has LAC and Philly options and would need to specifically pick the Knicks?

Booker? Not for a couple years?

Donovan is awkward.

Who else is even a remote'ish possibility?

I guess we can ask what other teams are going to need to make some kind of move?

Top of mind for me are Phoenix and Golden State - they have to look at doing something to get relief.

Bojan, filler & pick or two for Wiggins? I mean that doesn’t fix things for GS much, and I think he might be overpaid, especially with the player option coming up. But maybe in a bench role he can help get us over the top?

Let's just easily settle into the No vote on Wiggins and move on quickly. That guys is just not in a good space.

Phoenix can move Booker and Durant. But really they are not going to do that any time soon?

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I really feel great about the healthy starting 5: Brunson, Donte, OG, Randle, Hartenstein. Brunson has arrived as a top 10 guy and one of the best closers in the league. Randle is a satisfactory 2nd option. Donte, OG, and Hartenstein are the cream of the crop as far as elite level role players. What they do, they do among the best in the league. If you can upgrade from Randle to Giannis, sure, you do it. But otherwise it’s really tough. I’d gladly go after P George and Bridges, the 2 most common names floating around. But P George is older and injury prone, so replacing Randle with him shortens the window for contention. Bridges replacing Randle doesn’t really help with the lack of scoring around Brunson. And adding him to the lineup alongside Randle gives a good scoring option with the defense, but if you’re replacing Donte with him you lose the shooting gravity. It’s just really tough to replace any of our starting 5 in a vacuum due to their individual skill sets being perfectly suited around Brunson (and Randle to a lesser extent.) long story, longer, the starting 5 fits like a glove and we saw that in a one month sample size.

Now when I say we need a 6th man, I’m not talking about a Hart replacement. I’m talking about someone who can carry offense in some ways. Hart will do what he does whether he’s off the bench or starting in place of OG, Donte or Randle if and when one of them is out. But we need someone who can really bring offense to the second unit to prop it up at times. We need a real Quickley replacement, regardless of position. It will be bogey plus picks that don’t mortgage the future.

Imagine if we could move that package for Kuzma and get him to buy into a bench role as a 2-way combo forward who can score, rebound and playmake? Or maybe it’s as simple as revisiting Brogdon, a former 6th man of the year. Similar to his teammate Jerami Grant. Does he buy into a 6th man role if it means competing for a championship? We need that level of guy. Knicks healthy starting 5 is elite. We need to get that elite bench back. Imagine back a couple of years ago when the starting 5 was trash but the bench would carry this team to wins. What if we could put that all together? Outside of a Giannis or maybe PG level player coming onto the market, that should be the goal. Find that guy.

I don't want to divert your topic - I think you are spot on with the 6th man upgrade - but I want to ask everyone if there is even a semi viable upgrade over Randle that is out there.

Giannis. He prob is not available for at least a year?

Paul George? He has LAC and Philly options and would need to specifically pick the Knicks?

Booker? Not for a couple years?

Donovan is awkward.

Who else is even a remote'ish possibility?

I guess we can ask what other teams are going to need to make some kind of move?

Top of mind for me are Phoenix and Golden State - they have to look at doing something to get relief.

Bojan, filler & pick or two for Wiggins? I mean that doesn’t fix things for GS much, and I think he might be overpaid, especially with the player option coming up. But maybe in a bench role he can help get us over the top?

Let's just easily settle into the No vote on Wiggins and move on quickly. That guys is just not in a good space.

Phoenix can move Booker and Durant. But really they are not going to do that any time soon?

Yeah Wiggins on paper would make sense as a bench scorer, but seems like there’s a lot of off the court stuff going on there and the culture fit just isn’t there.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I really feel great about the healthy starting 5: Brunson, Donte, OG, Randle, Hartenstein. Brunson has arrived as a top 10 guy and one of the best closers in the league. Randle is a satisfactory 2nd option. Donte, OG, and Hartenstein are the cream of the crop as far as elite level role players. What they do, they do among the best in the league. If you can upgrade from Randle to Giannis, sure, you do it. But otherwise it’s really tough. I’d gladly go after P George and Bridges, the 2 most common names floating around. But P George is older and injury prone, so replacing Randle with him shortens the window for contention. Bridges replacing Randle doesn’t really help with the lack of scoring around Brunson. And adding him to the lineup alongside Randle gives a good scoring option with the defense, but if you’re replacing Donte with him you lose the shooting gravity. It’s just really tough to replace any of our starting 5 in a vacuum due to their individual skill sets being perfectly suited around Brunson (and Randle to a lesser extent.) long story, longer, the starting 5 fits like a glove and we saw that in a one month sample size.

Now when I say we need a 6th man, I’m not talking about a Hart replacement. I’m talking about someone who can carry offense in some ways. Hart will do what he does whether he’s off the bench or starting in place of OG, Donte or Randle if and when one of them is out. But we need someone who can really bring offense to the second unit to prop it up at times. We need a real Quickley replacement, regardless of position. It will be bogey plus picks that don’t mortgage the future.

Imagine if we could move that package for Kuzma and get him to buy into a bench role as a 2-way combo forward who can score, rebound and playmake? Or maybe it’s as simple as revisiting Brogdon, a former 6th man of the year. Similar to his teammate Jerami Grant. Does he buy into a 6th man role if it means competing for a championship? We need that level of guy. Knicks healthy starting 5 is elite. We need to get that elite bench back. Imagine back a couple of years ago when the starting 5 was trash but the bench would carry this team to wins. What if we could put that all together? Outside of a Giannis or maybe PG level player coming onto the market, that should be the goal. Find that guy.

I don't want to divert your topic - I think you are spot on with the 6th man upgrade - but I want to ask everyone if there is even a semi viable upgrade over Randle that is out there.

Giannis. He prob is not available for at least a year?

Paul George? He has LAC and Philly options and would need to specifically pick the Knicks?

Booker? Not for a couple years?

Donovan is awkward.

Who else is even a remote'ish possibility?

I don’t see a semi viable upgrade over Randle out there Outside of Giannis. PG and Mikal are different sorts of upgrades, but when you factor in the things Randle does they may not be true upgrades. The other names like Markkanen and Ingram might both be slightly better players than Randle, and younger, but aren’t better to the extent that it will be a difference in any real way.

I saw one trade idea out there that had me pause:

Markkanen for Bogey, #24, Knicks 2025, Milwaukee 2025, Knicks top3 protected 2029. I think there may have been one other pick involved, like NY 2027.

That Milwaulkee 2025 pick may be worth a lot more a little bit later into next season.

I have zero clue how much Utah likes Lauri. They would be getting lots and lots of picks for sure. Knicks would get a stud off their bench.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I really feel great about the healthy starting 5: Brunson, Donte, OG, Randle, Hartenstein. Brunson has arrived as a top 10 guy and one of the best closers in the league. Randle is a satisfactory 2nd option. Donte, OG, and Hartenstein are the cream of the crop as far as elite level role players. What they do, they do among the best in the league. If you can upgrade from Randle to Giannis, sure, you do it. But otherwise it’s really tough. I’d gladly go after P George and Bridges, the 2 most common names floating around. But P George is older and injury prone, so replacing Randle with him shortens the window for contention. Bridges replacing Randle doesn’t really help with the lack of scoring around Brunson. And adding him to the lineup alongside Randle gives a good scoring option with the defense, but if you’re replacing Donte with him you lose the shooting gravity. It’s just really tough to replace any of our starting 5 in a vacuum due to their individual skill sets being perfectly suited around Brunson (and Randle to a lesser extent.) long story, longer, the starting 5 fits like a glove and we saw that in a one month sample size.

Now when I say we need a 6th man, I’m not talking about a Hart replacement. I’m talking about someone who can carry offense in some ways. Hart will do what he does whether he’s off the bench or starting in place of OG, Donte or Randle if and when one of them is out. But we need someone who can really bring offense to the second unit to prop it up at times. We need a real Quickley replacement, regardless of position. It will be bogey plus picks that don’t mortgage the future.

Imagine if we could move that package for Kuzma and get him to buy into a bench role as a 2-way combo forward who can score, rebound and playmake? Or maybe it’s as simple as revisiting Brogdon, a former 6th man of the year. Similar to his teammate Jerami Grant. Does he buy into a 6th man role if it means competing for a championship? We need that level of guy. Knicks healthy starting 5 is elite. We need to get that elite bench back. Imagine back a couple of years ago when the starting 5 was trash but the bench would carry this team to wins. What if we could put that all together? Outside of a Giannis or maybe PG level player coming onto the market, that should be the goal. Find that guy.

I don't want to divert your topic - I think you are spot on with the 6th man upgrade - but I want to ask everyone if there is even a semi viable upgrade over Randle that is out there.

Giannis. He prob is not available for at least a year?

Paul George? He has LAC and Philly options and would need to specifically pick the Knicks?

Booker? Not for a couple years?

Donovan is awkward.

Who else is even a remote'ish possibility?

I don’t see a semi viable upgrade over Randle out there Outside of Giannis. PG and Mikal are different sorts of upgrades, but when you factor in the things Randle does they may not be true upgrades. The other names like Markkanen and Ingram might both be slightly better players than Randle, and younger, but aren’t better to the extent that it will be a difference in any real way.

I saw one trade idea out there that had me pause:

Markkanen for Bogey, #24, Knicks 2025, Milwaukee 2025, Knicks top3 protected 2029. I think there may have been one other pick involved, like NY 2027.

That Milwaulkee 2025 pick may be worth a lot more a little bit later into next season.

I have zero clue how much Utah likes Lauri. They would be getting lots and lots of picks for sure. Knicks would get a stud off their bench.

I don't think Markkanen is going to come of the bench. He's in the ballpark of what Randle does, borderline all-star

I do wonder if that makes a difference to some players, especially if they have the contract that is market-rate and on a deep playoff contender. For the Knicks to take that type of step of a trade that included all of those picks, they would have done their homework on what magnitude of contract Markkanen would want already, so I'd guess that portion of the problem is set aside.

Kevin McHale was real and so are a ton of other 6th men.

for 6th man we need a clutch player. someone like Demar would fit well for a deep playoff run, but not sure he's ready to be 6th man

regarding randle, he potentially fits the bill of being able to handle the ball. but i worry about his playoff performance. Maybe being surrounded with more talent and winning culture will change him for the btter. if we were intent on upgrading him the only names i can really think of is PG, Durant (who i would hate), Kawhi -- i don't see how any of these work though

I used to think about upgrading at 2 with someone who can handle the ball but Ragu has earned that spot now, and i don't think the potential upgrades would be worth the huge expense

We have so many options now for that 2nd or 3rd star & creator, and it could just be Randle.

gradyandrew wrote:Why no love for Burks? He's been a stone cold assassin for most of his time here except the regular season this year when he didn't have a regular role. The guy single handedly willed the Knicks back into game 7 vs. Indy. We know Thibs trusts him and we know he has good chemistry with Randle. He seems like the obvious culture and price fit for the Knicks plus when the team is at full strength he won't cause any problems with the random DNP- CD.

He can turn it on here and there but just seems to be aging and I want someone better. But I’d absolutely bring him back.

Knixkik wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Why no love for Burks? He's been a stone cold assassin for most of his time here except the regular season this year when he didn't have a regular role. The guy single handedly willed the Knicks back into game 7 vs. Indy. We know Thibs trusts him and we know he has good chemistry with Randle. He seems like the obvious culture and price fit for the Knicks plus when the team is at full strength he won't cause any problems with the random DNP- CD.

He can turn it on here and there but just seems to be aging and I want someone better. But I’d absolutely bring him back.