ESOMKnicks wrote:I dislike Trump, but I cannot escape the thought that had he not been an ex-president and a current presidential candidate, no one would have cared about any of the stuff for which he is being tried, certainly not DAs.

The current trial would certainly not have happened had he not been POTUS since the case is directly related to funding and potential fraud related to keeping someone quiet in order to hurt his original POTUS campaign.

Other cases against Trump would also not have happened since they are also related to activities during his time as President (or afterwards) for attempting to overturn results or related to improper or illegal actions related to retention of Presidential records.

Not sure if the cases would have moved forward if Trump did not run for President again, however there is a school of thought that he wants to be President mostly to use his power to erase all of the Federal cases.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Trump is being re-elected. I have a coworker who is super Maga and in the past I used to debate with him. Yet, in the last year or so I have been very mellow with my coworker as far as Trump convincing him I'm impartial and independent. Why ? Because I fear the US being a utter dictatorship under Trump along the lines of Right wing Argentina and Chile. So since I don't want to be disappeared because of a tip by a co-worker or neighbor, which is what happened in South America during those regimes I keep my politics unspecified with others. Scary times ahead

I suppose it is a contradiction that is hard to resolve: should people be free to elect someone who might want to curtail their freedom to elect? The answer that immediately comes to mind is "yes", because there are constitutional safeguards against curtailing people's freedoms and rights. But history shows that they can be surprisingly easily dismantled.

We have a 6-3 radical far right activist Supreme Court. If trump wants to suspend the constitution they will let him do it

gradyandrew wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Trump is being re-elected. I have a coworker who is super Maga and in the past I used to debate with him. Yet, in the last year or so I have been very mellow with my coworker as far as Trump convincing him I'm impartial and independent. Why ? Because I fear the US being a utter dictatorship under Trump along the lines of Right wing Argentina and Chile. So since I don't want to be disappeared because of a tip by a co-worker or neighbor, which is what happened in South America during those regimes I keep my politics unspecified with others. Scary times ahead

Why do you think a second term will be much different than the first?

Because the first time round, Trump could not believe he was there, nor did he have any clue what to do. He relied on actual civil servants around him to simply keep the lights on. This time, he doesn't care about any of them, any of anything, the country, the American people or even his own supporters. All he cares about is revenge, hate, discord, fury and violence. He will burn the world down to spread his putrid hate and he will not lose a moments sleep or a drop of ketchup on it.

Trump, as someone mentioned above is an amalgamation of everything wrong with today's society. An accumulation of grievances, hate, bitterness and pure ignorance. Not only does he not know things, he believes he's better off not knowing things. He gives people the permission they need to hate those who are different to them and he rides that hate to power. If Trump wins the presidency again, nothing will stop him and no misdeed will be too far or too much. Trump is Putin without the cunning, and all he wants is revenge on a world who sees him now without his clothes on.

JesseDark wrote:Trump needs to be convicted and defeated at the polls for the good of the country.This project 2025 lays out the conservative agenda for a 2nd term. Some dangerous stuff https://whswatchdog.net/3746/news/what-is-project-2025[

Comply with statutory bans on the federal funding of abortion
End the “woke” agenda (deleting terms like “sexual orientation and gender identity,” “diversity,” “equity,” and more)
Conflates pornography with transgenderism and that it must be outlawed
How to fire “unfireable” federal bureaucrats (Bureaucrats of DHS, ED, DOJ, EPA, etc.) to rid left-wing ideas
“At its very heart, environmental extremism is decidedly anti-human.”
Plans to outlaw all “Confucius Institutes, TikTok, and any other arm of Chinese propaganda and espionage”
Promotes “the dynamic genius of free enterprise” over the “elite-directed socialism”

Seems like this is a far cry from rounding up all the libs.

foosballnick wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Trump needs to be convicted and defeated at the polls for the good of the country.This project 2025 lays out the conservative agenda for a 2nd term. Some dangerous stuff https://whswatchdog.net/3746/news/what-is-project-2025[

Comply with statutory bans on the federal funding of abortion
End the “woke” agenda (deleting terms like “sexual orientation and gender identity,” “diversity,” “equity,” and more)
Conflates pornography with transgenderism and that it must be outlawed
How to fire “unfireable” federal bureaucrats (Bureaucrats of DHS, ED, DOJ, EPA, etc.) to rid left-wing ideas
“At its very heart, environmental extremism is decidedly anti-human.”
Plans to outlaw all “Confucius Institutes, TikTok, and any other arm of Chinese propaganda and espionage”
Promotes “the dynamic genius of free enterprise” over the “elite-directed socialism”

Seems like this is a far cry from rounding up all the libs.

Keep telling yourself that. But then again you are in China so probably fully conditioned to accepting totalitarianism? Ending diversity, putting transgenders in jail, firing all federal employees simply because of their political affiliation. Eliminating diversity. 180 day agenda for all federal employees to "comply". Perhaps you need to learn to read between the lines of what is really being said.

Well said foosballnick. This election comes down to democracy vs totalarism a simple choice for me.

gradyandrew wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

JesseDark wrote:Trump needs to be convicted and defeated at the polls for the good of the country.This project 2025 lays out the conservative agenda for a 2nd term. Some dangerous stuff https://whswatchdog.net/3746/news/what-is-project-2025[

Comply with statutory bans on the federal funding of abortion
End the “woke” agenda (deleting terms like “sexual orientation and gender identity,” “diversity,” “equity,” and more)
Conflates pornography with transgenderism and that it must be outlawed
How to fire “unfireable” federal bureaucrats (Bureaucrats of DHS, ED, DOJ, EPA, etc.) to rid left-wing ideas
“At its very heart, environmental extremism is decidedly anti-human.”
Plans to outlaw all “Confucius Institutes, TikTok, and any other arm of Chinese propaganda and espionage”
Promotes “the dynamic genius of free enterprise” over the “elite-directed socialism”

Seems like this is a far cry from rounding up all the libs.

Keep telling yourself that. But then again you are in China so probably fully conditioned to accepting totalitarianism? Ending diversity, putting transgenders in jail, firing all federal employees simply because of their political affiliation. Eliminating diversity. 180 day agenda for all federal employees to "comply". Perhaps you need to learn to read between the lines of what is really being said.

Probably more relevant is that I have lived in China since shortly after 9/11 and so I imagine an American political culture where ideas and policies are debated and not one where ad hominem attacks are a legitimate argument. If that's your best shot, then it's pretty easy to see why the candidate with the more acerbic attacks is leading in the polls.

If you thought that was an ad hominem attack, not sure what to tell you except for me to respond with an ACTUAL ad hominem attack. HERE GOES.... Perhaps grow a thicker skin when you decide to join in on a political discussion. Political discourse have always been rough, bumpy and dirty here.....even before 911. I guess you practicing revisionist history to make a point helps support your denigration of the US as you lob insults from afar about things here. Things tend to be both good and bad everywhere. But the ability to exhibit direct loud open speech and opposition to one's Leaders and Government does not exist everywhere and it may be at stake in America.