NardDogNation wrote:I can't lie, I've really warmed to the idea of getting DeJounte Murray especially now that we have OG. He has enough height (6"5') and wingspan (6"10'), to effectively guard either the 1 or 2 and to help us maintain our defense-first identity.

I also think his time with the Spurs (and DeMarr Derozan) is indicative of how well he could fit in next to a high usage player and still excel as a facilitator. My only concern with him is the assets we'd have to forfeit for him in a trade. The fact he's on a manageable deal for the next 3.5 seasons will give the Hawks the impetus to hold our feet to the fire in any deal. And I still think that we ought to maintain as much draft capital as possible for a potential Joel Embiid trade this off-season.

Not to hijack your thread but would you prefer Dejounte Murray or Mikal Bridges at the opposite guard spot next to Brunson?

Mikal easily but Nets won't trade him to us and he'd cost alot more.

DJM didn't make sense with RJ & IQ here, but he makes a good deal of sense now.

NardDogNation wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I can't lie, I've really warmed to the idea of getting DeJounte Murray especially now that we have OG. He has enough height (6"5') and wingspan (6"10'), to effectively guard either the 1 or 2 and to help us maintain our defense-first identity.

I also think his time with the Spurs (and DeMarr Derozan) is indicative of how well he could fit in next to a high usage player and still excel as a facilitator. My only concern with him is the assets we'd have to forfeit for him in a trade. The fact he's on a manageable deal for the next 3.5 seasons will give the Hawks the impetus to hold our feet to the fire in any deal. And I still think that we ought to maintain as much draft capital as possible for a potential Joel Embiid trade this off-season.

Not to hijack your thread but would you prefer Dejounte Murray or Mikal Bridges at the opposite guard spot next to Brunson?

Mikal easily but Nets won't trade him to us and he'd cost alot more.

DJM didn't make sense with RJ & IQ here, but he makes a good deal of sense now.

Mikal is on one of the very best value contracts in the league...but he only has two seasons left on it. That alone should concern the Nets. And when you factor in that there is a large enough sample size to show they are a sub.-500 team at their best, I think they'd have real motivation to trade him. And if the Knicks and Raptors could see their way to a deal in the midst of a contentious court case, I think any franchise is capable of making a trade with one another.

I'm sure it's a concern, but I'm confident they just sign him and keep it moving. Deals will look crazy for the time being, but the cap will eventually smooth out and it won't be as bad. I'm also not high on Murray. His deflections and steals mask the fact that he's not a disciplined defender and his advanced metrics have been meh since he's been to Atlanta. Is that because he's guarding two-guards now? Well that's what he's guarding if he comes here...I've stated this in other threads and I won't beat a dead horse, but there's a reason why Atlanta is regretting the Trae Murray pairing. Why should I believe things would change here?

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I can't lie, I've really warmed to the idea of getting DeJounte Murray especially now that we have OG. He has enough height (6"5') and wingspan (6"10'), to effectively guard either the 1 or 2 and to help us maintain our defense-first identity.

I also think his time with the Spurs (and DeMarr Derozan) is indicative of how well he could fit in next to a high usage player and still excel as a facilitator. My only concern with him is the assets we'd have to forfeit for him in a trade. The fact he's on a manageable deal for the next 3.5 seasons will give the Hawks the impetus to hold our feet to the fire in any deal. And I still think that we ought to maintain as much draft capital as possible for a potential Joel Embiid trade this off-season.

Not to hijack your thread but would you prefer Dejounte Murray or Mikal Bridges at the opposite guard spot next to Brunson?

Mikal easily but Nets won't trade him to us and he'd cost alot more.

DJM didn't make sense with RJ & IQ here, but he makes a good deal of sense now.

Mikal is on one of the very best value contracts in the league...but he only has two seasons left on it. That alone should concern the Nets. And when you factor in that there is a large enough sample size to show they are a sub.-500 team at their best, I think they'd have real motivation to trade him. And if the Knicks and Raptors could see their way to a deal in the midst of a contentious court case, I think any franchise is capable of making a trade with one another.

I'm sure it's a concern, but I'm confident they just sign him and keep it moving. Deals will look crazy for the time being, but the cap will eventually smooth out and it won't be as bad. I'm also not high on Murray. His deflections and steals mask the fact that he's not a disciplined defender and his advanced metrics have been meh since he's been to Atlanta. Is that because he's guarding two-guards now? Well that's what he's guarding if he comes here...I've stated this in other threads and I won't beat a dead horse, but there's a reason why Atlanta is regretting the Trae Murray pairing. Why should I believe things would change here?

Mikal doesn't seem like the type of dude to sign an extension to remain part of a losing situation. After all, he took a below market deal with the Suns to give them the opportunity to keep their team intact and contend. That proved to be a mistake as it was for the Morris twins but he's very much a good soldier type if the team is winning. I doubt he'd be willing to take as steep a cut as he did the first time around but I suspect he'd be amenable to biding his time until he can re-unite himself with the rest of the Villanova crew. Even as the alpha-dog on the Nets, he seems to be pretty content deferring to Cam Thomas offensively...which isn't exactly a winning formula lol.

I very much agree with your point about Murray defensively but I think it's context-dependent. As much as I'm a Quin Synder-advocate, there isn't much of a track record for him being able to coach a competent defense beyond lineups featuring Rudy Gobert. I believe Thibs and co are a cut-above in that regard and can help scheme well enough to cover for his worst impulsives; particularly when Mitchell Robinson is back healthy. Remember that Thibs built very good defenses with Nate Robinson off the scrap-heap, so Murray should be fine.

I also recognize your point about Murray at the 2-defensively but how often is Jalen Brunson even defending the point-of-attack anyway? Against MIN, it seemed like he was off of the guard positions entirely for huge stretches due to his liability on that end. I'd assume that the trend would continue after adding Murray, who would just give us more flexibility in hiding Brunson.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/BenStiller/status/1742630516153582072

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarly

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).

Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.

Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)

For

Murray
Bey

Technical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.

Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hart

Pretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.

With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.

I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.

way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.

DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.

Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarly

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).

Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.

Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)

For

Murray
Bey

Technical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.

Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hart

Pretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.

With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.

I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.

way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.

DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.

Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.

BigDaddyG wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarly

The Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....

I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).

Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.

Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)

For

Murray
Bey

Technical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.

Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/Hart

Pretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.

With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.

I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.

way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.

DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.

Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.

Yeah, Murray only went for Danilo and three first when he first got trade. And you could argue his value was higher with the Spurs.

1) At the time of the Spurs trade, Murray had 2 years left on his contract. He signed a reasonable 4 year extension. That has added value.

2) Hawks gave up 25 pick, 26 swap and 27 pick, and the Knicks 23 pick. That’s 3+ picks with limited to know protections. The protections on the picks I offer up are limiting their value. I’d rather give up those picks than do our 25,26 swap and 27, apples to apples.

3) I think the Spurs traded Murray at or below actual value as a courtesy. Not sure Hawks would do the same.

I could be wrong, but I’d rather lock up Murray than wonder whether any of these picks were overpayment. Knicks would basically have their rotation locked up for years.