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Why not Jrue Holiday ?
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Knixkik
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9/27/2023  3:05 PM
Portland is going to move him. He’s a nice fit next to Brunson. He can guard multiple positions, take some playmaking responsibility off of Brunson, and hit open shots. He’s older but that’s the problem for another day. He’s a perfect glue guy who would make the team better now without mortgaging the future. He’s a leader type similar to Brunson and would help the Knicks take that next step forward. A trade would involve minimum unprotected draft compensation given the age and contract. But waiting for Gianni’s, Embiid etc is an endless journey and a trade for Jrue doesn’t hinder that anyway. The bucks pick we own in 2025 just took a hit, just like the Washington pick. Time to move some draft capital for a quality player and stop kicking the can down the road. Although there is alway risk, This is a great opportunity.
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nycericanguy
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9/27/2023  3:10 PM
he's just a bit too old and not quite good enough. i mean look at this his shooting % in the playoffs the last 3 years, 40/38/40... we need better than that. I dont want him taking Grimes or IQ's spot.
ramtour420
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9/27/2023  3:10 PM
Is he an upgrade over Grimes this season? How about in 3 years when our youth will be all in their prime?
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EwingPSD
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9/27/2023  3:12 PM
He's old and not good enough a shooter/scorer to make the Knicks a contender
martin
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9/27/2023  3:18 PM
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martin
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9/27/2023  3:29 PM
Probably?

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martin
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9/27/2023  3:33 PM
I could see this too

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nycericanguy
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9/27/2023  3:37 PM
martin wrote:

ok good so we can put this to bed.
Knixkik
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9/27/2023  3:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2023  3:50 PM
EwingPSD wrote:He's old and not good enough a shooter/scorer to make the Knicks a contender

It’s not about making them a contender. It’s about getting better. I’d trade RJ for him. Start grimes at SF. You also have Hart there. Jrue is a culture changing player in the way Brunson and hart have been. At some point you have to take a chance. There’s only so many players who turn us into a contender. And the window isn’t that big with these contracts as they are.
fishmike
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9/27/2023  4:01 PM
Knixkik wrote:
EwingPSD wrote:He's old and not good enough a shooter/scorer to make the Knicks a contender

It’s not about making them a contender. It’s about getting better. I’d trade RJ for him. Start grimes at SF. You also have Hart there. Jrue is a culture changing player in the way Brunson and hart have been. At some point you have to take a chance. There’s only so many players who turn us into a contender. And the window isn’t that big with these contracts as they are.

we have a path to get better. That involves a commitment to continue to develop guys like Grimes and IQ and even RJ.

Knicks were a 2nd round team last year with an ascending roster of young guys. Any move for an older play MUST be about making them a contender otherwise its a hard no

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GustavBahler
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9/27/2023  4:11 PM
Pass for good reasons already posted. I know Brunson just got here, but I'm all for the FO drafting a PG (1st or 2nd rounder) to develop as Jalen's eventual successor. If that player isnt already on the roster. Someone projected to do big things.

JB plays all out, among the league leaders in taking charges. Entering his prime. Like to see Rose draft the kind of PG he used to represent, ready to step in.
Knixkik
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9/27/2023  4:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2023  4:37 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
EwingPSD wrote:He's old and not good enough a shooter/scorer to make the Knicks a contender

It’s not about making them a contender. It’s about getting better. I’d trade RJ for him. Start grimes at SF. You also have Hart there. Jrue is a culture changing player in the way Brunson and hart have been. At some point you have to take a chance. There’s only so many players who turn us into a contender. And the window isn’t that big with these contracts as they are.

we have a path to get better. That involves a commitment to continue to develop guys like Grimes and IQ and even RJ.

Knicks were a 2nd round team last year with an ascending roster of young guys. Any move for an older play MUST be about making them a contender otherwise its a hard no

It’s not always as simple as internal improvement. You need to stay aggressive looking to improve so long as it doesn’t mortgage the future. Otherwise Milwaukee gets better, Philly trades for holiday, and both Giannis and Embiid are happy and the Knicks are sitting on their hands and miss out not only on getting better but on the potential superstars who are now happy because their teams were agressive. Holiday represents a way to get better and be taken seriously like Brunson accomplished.
fishmike
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9/27/2023  5:45 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
EwingPSD wrote:He's old and not good enough a shooter/scorer to make the Knicks a contender

It’s not about making them a contender. It’s about getting better. I’d trade RJ for him. Start grimes at SF. You also have Hart there. Jrue is a culture changing player in the way Brunson and hart have been. At some point you have to take a chance. There’s only so many players who turn us into a contender. And the window isn’t that big with these contracts as they are.

we have a path to get better. That involves a commitment to continue to develop guys like Grimes and IQ and even RJ.

Knicks were a 2nd round team last year with an ascending roster of young guys. Any move for an older play MUST be about making them a contender otherwise its a hard no

It’s not always as simple as internal improvement. You need to stay aggressive looking to improve so long as it doesn’t mortgage the future. Otherwise Milwaukee gets better, Philly trades for holiday, and both Giannis and Embiid are happy and the Knicks are sitting on their hands and miss out not only on getting better but on the potential superstars who are now happy because their teams were agressive. Holiday represents a way to get better and be taken seriously like Brunson accomplished.

doesnt make us a title contender, takes development from the other guys. Sorry, I dont follow this reasoning. I just dont subscribe to a short term gain and a long term loss that doesnt put is in the "can win a chip" sphere

Holiday probably makes us better next season. He's not a playoff star so he's not getting us over that hump. What's the point. We can do better. Unless you think Grimes/IQ/RJ are trash. I dont so Im willing to wait and see. Glad we ran it back

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knixkik
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9/27/2023  6:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2023  6:55 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
EwingPSD wrote:He's old and not good enough a shooter/scorer to make the Knicks a contender

It’s not about making them a contender. It’s about getting better. I’d trade RJ for him. Start grimes at SF. You also have Hart there. Jrue is a culture changing player in the way Brunson and hart have been. At some point you have to take a chance. There’s only so many players who turn us into a contender. And the window isn’t that big with these contracts as they are.

we have a path to get better. That involves a commitment to continue to develop guys like Grimes and IQ and even RJ.

Knicks were a 2nd round team last year with an ascending roster of young guys. Any move for an older play MUST be about making them a contender otherwise its a hard no

It’s not always as simple as internal improvement. You need to stay aggressive looking to improve so long as it doesn’t mortgage the future. Otherwise Milwaukee gets better, Philly trades for holiday, and both Giannis and Embiid are happy and the Knicks are sitting on their hands and miss out not only on getting better but on the potential superstars who are now happy because their teams were agressive. Holiday represents a way to get better and be taken seriously like Brunson accomplished.

doesnt make us a title contender, takes development from the other guys. Sorry, I dont follow this reasoning. I just dont subscribe to a short term gain and a long term loss that doesnt put is in the "can win a chip" sphere

Holiday probably makes us better next season. He's not a playoff star so he's not getting us over that hump. What's the point. We can do better. Unless you think Grimes/IQ/RJ are trash. I dont so Im willing to wait and see. Glad we ran it back

Don’t get me wrong I’m fine with running it back. I just think passing up on guys like Jrue waiting for RJ to come around or the next perfect star to become available isn’t a guarantee. The guys that don’t want Jrue are the same ones that didn’t want Brunson. Fans just want the perfect player. Jrue is a 2-way star. Defensively he is among the best. I’d love to have that type of player as long as it doesn’t require longterm pieces, which it won’t. I’m fine just going in this year with the same group, but if we take a step back and don’t overachieve again, then there will be problems. I want to keep the good times rolling. Jrue is a seamless fit.
technomaster
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9/27/2023  6:55 PM
Wait what, the just-turned 33 year old Holiday is old?

He's coming off a regular season where he averaged 19.3ppg, 7.4apg, 5.1rpg, with .479 FG%, .384 3pt%, and .859FT%.

While I agree he's on the wrong side of 30, he probably as a few more years as a relatively elite player and is every bit as impactful as Brunson, especially if you factor in his elite D (and Brunson's lack of it).

Throwing him as a 3rd option gives you a player just as reliable as Brunson/Randle were last season.

His presence on the team would certainly change the youth movement, but swapping him in for RJ, Grimes, or Quickley (or even 2 of them) would give this team much more of a championship vibe this season.

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Knixkik
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9/27/2023  8:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/27/2023  8:27 PM
technomaster wrote:Wait what, the just-turned 33 year old Holiday is old?

He's coming off a regular season where he averaged 19.3ppg, 7.4apg, 5.1rpg, with .479 FG%, .384 3pt%, and .859FT%.

While I agree he's on the wrong side of 30, he probably as a few more years as a relatively elite player and is every bit as impactful as Brunson, especially if you factor in his elite D (and Brunson's lack of it).

Throwing him as a 3rd option gives you a player just as reliable as Brunson/Randle were last season.

His presence on the team would certainly change the youth movement, but swapping him in for RJ, Grimes, or Quickley (or even 2 of them) would give this team much more of a championship vibe this season.

Spot on. And he should continue to age fine. He’s the perfect third scoring option and defensive anchor for this team. Too good to be true most likely.
martin
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9/27/2023  8:43 PM
Trading Jrue for RJ plus whatever barely makes sense from Portland’s perspective.

They already have Sharpe, Scoot, Anfernee Simons, Matisse Thybulle, 1st round #23 Kris Murray. Jeramy Grant’s best position is probably SF.

Trade gotta work both ways.

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KnickDanger
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9/27/2023  11:05 PM
I trust the FO is too smart to trade multiple assets for aging bloated contracts. I hope it's just clickbaiting feeding the usual fan "hey let's do something."
Knixkik
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9/27/2023  11:49 PM
martin wrote:Trading Jrue for RJ plus whatever barely makes sense from Portland’s perspective.

They already have Sharpe, Scoot, Anfernee Simons, Matisse Thybulle, 1st round #23 Kris Murray. Jeramy Grant’s best position is probably SF.

Trade gotta work both ways.

It’s nitpicking but J Grant is absolutely a 4 these days. Barrett isn’t perfect but you can’t have enough wings. Portland will have to take back significant salary in a holiday trade. I think Barrett will make more sense than most bad contracts some contenders will have to attach to make the money work. The Knicks have the assets, and Barrett is a player they can easily talk themselves into just like Ayton. If you look around at other teams who will be in the market for Jrue, not sure there’s any team that can offer a contract or player that is more reasonable than Barrett for a rebuilding team.
joec32033
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9/28/2023  6:16 AM
I am not looking to hijack this thread but Barrett seems to be the most versatile guy on this roster. Everyone has included him in trades for stars like DMitchell, Giannis, Dame, Harden, Lavine, Derozan, George to secondary stars/high quality role players like OG, now Holiday, Grant to lower end talent like Bogdanovic, draft picks, Keldon Johnson.....

If that is not the definition versatility I don't know what is.

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