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LivingLegend wrote:So I guess 1 theory is they do this to keep this years salary down - not sure of drivers in that regard and can offer him larger 4 year extension in Aug but bigger piece there is maybe this is done to enable them to give full MLE to DiVencenzo — like that or not.

Not sure if the delay has trade implications where if they do a separate deal prior to the extended date they create other options— damn CBA stuff so hard to fully grasp for me.

Yeah, sounds like that's the plan.

LivingLegend wrote:So I guess 1 theory is they do this to keep this years salary down - not sure of drivers in that regard and can offer him larger 4 year extension in Aug but bigger piece there is maybe this is done to enable them to give full MLE to DiVencenzo — like that or not.

Not sure if the delay has trade implications where if they do a separate deal prior to the extended date they create other options— damn CBA stuff so hard to fully grasp for me.

You can learn a lot about the cap from messing around on spotrac.com using the "manage team" option. It's not perfect but it's pretty close. Once you get the hang of it's pretty user friendly. Also, it's a huge upgrade from things like the trade machine or realgm's trade checker.

If Josh declines his option, Knicks will still have bird rights. Either way after waiving Rose's option, Knicks will be over the cap and under the tax and be able to offer the full mle of 12 million. So the only scenario that makes sense to me is if Josh is considering opting in. New CBA changes (the Jaylen Brown rule) make extensions more competitive than before. For Josh's age and skill set, this will likely be his legacy money deal. The Knicks can dangle more years and a higher total contract amount than Josh would likely get in free agency, even if there were a team willing to offer a 20 million per deal, it wouldn't be for more than two guaranteed years. For the Knicks an extension makes sense as it pushes potential luxury tax payments into the future in a rising cap environment.

One thing is for certain, if either Knicks or Hart were preparing for a change, he wouldn't extend the deadline.

PassTheBall wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:So I guess 1 theory is they do this to keep this years salary down - not sure of drivers in that regard and can offer him larger 4 year extension in Aug but bigger piece there is maybe this is done to enable them to give full MLE to DiVencenzo — like that or not.

Not sure if the delay has trade implications where if they do a separate deal prior to the extended date they create other options— damn CBA stuff so hard to fully grasp for me.

You can learn a lot about the cap from messing around on spotrac.com using the "manage team" option. It's not perfect but it's pretty close. Once you get the hang of it's pretty user friendly. Also, it's a huge upgrade from things like the trade machine or realgm's trade checker.

If Josh declines his option, Knicks will still have bird rights. Either way after waiving Rose's option, Knicks will be over the cap and under the tax and be able to offer the full mle of 12 million. So the only scenario that makes sense to me is if Josh is considering opting in. New CBA changes (the Jaylen Brown rule) make extensions more competitive than before. For Josh's age and skill set, this will likely be his legacy money deal. The Knicks can dangle more years and a higher total contract amount than Josh would likely get in free agency, even if there were a team willing to offer a 20 million per deal, it wouldn't be for more than two guaranteed years. For the Knicks an extension makes sense as it pushes potential luxury tax payments into the future in a rising cap environment.

One thing is for certain, if either Knicks or Hart were preparing for a change, he wouldn't extend the deadline.

Thanks for the site suggestion!

Knicks are playing chess and seem very well versed in keeping and improving team chemistry through making the right player and contract moves.

Question on Donte The Divine, when he comes does this mean no more IQ or Grimes? McBride for sure would be gone right?

For the 2024-25 off season Knicks have 97 million committed to Brunson Grimes RJ Randle and Robinson against a 134 million cap, so 37 million in space. For simplicity's sake let's give Josh 17 million in salary for his second season. So the Knicks will have 20 million in cap space and another 28 million before the tax (162 million projected tax line). So a total of about 48 million before hitting the tax line.

If I'm New York I try to lock up IQ and Hartenstein on extensions this off season 20 and 12 million respectively. I let Obi hit RFA knowing Knicks can either match or extend the qualifying offer for one more year, before resigning him with bird rights to a slightly bigger deal. Either way Knicks can keep the same rotation as long as it shows improvement.

Bringing in an mle player like Donte means someone would have to go to make cap space and rotation minutes. I don't think the cost justifies replacing Grimes and he can't run the point like IQ or Josh.

Caseloads wrote:The thing is, with the new 140% extend rules - hart can get 18.1 million, which is frankly an overpay for a 7th man (quickly is the 6th man) who is 6-4 and scores 10 points per game and got exposed in the playoffs

I'm with you. Thing is, if everyone just performs to their contract value, you get a .500 team. NBA history has been pretty consistent in that there are two kinds of players who regularly outperform their contracts- max guys like LeBron, Curry, Jokic and guys on rookie deals. Not to say that mid tier guys aren't needed to soak up minutes and stabilize rotations, but too many of them and you generally get an average team.

As is Randle Brunson and IQ provide solid to great value at their salaries. RJ and Grimes have the potential to. But at 18 million for Josh Hart, it's an organizational win if he just performs to that value.

That being said, I think Duncan Robinson was really great to watch these playoffs. Dude over performed his first deal, signed a huge deal that he quickly underperformed, and then came back from the dead with a vastly improved skill set to shoot Miami into the Finals.

gradyandrew wrote:

Caseloads wrote:The thing is, with the new 140% extend rules - hart can get 18.1 million, which is frankly an overpay for a 7th man (quickly is the 6th man) who is 6-4 and scores 10 points per game and got exposed in the playoffs

I'm with you. Thing is, if everyone just performs to their contract value, you get a .500 team. NBA history has been pretty consistent in that there are two kinds of players who regularly outperform their contracts- max guys like LeBron, Curry, Jokic and guys on rookie deals. Not to say that mid tier guys aren't needed to soak up minutes and stabilize rotations, but too many of them and you generally get an average team.

As is Randle Brunson and IQ provide solid to great value at their salaries. RJ and Grimes have the potential to. But at 18 million for Josh Hart, it's an organizational win if he just performs to that value.

That being said, I think Duncan Robinson was really great to watch these playoffs. Dude over performed his first deal, signed a huge deal that he quickly underperformed, and then came back from the dead with a vastly improved skill set to shoot Miami into the Finals.

Exactly

Ef could have been our DR given the chance.

Thibs doesn’t take chances

KnickDanger wrote:FO not asleep at the wheel.

Smart move keeping that non tax MLE

Caseloads wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:FO not asleep at the wheel.

Smart move keeping that non tax MLE

But who to use it on

If donte were 6-8, great. At 6-4; we need grimes going. Unless we are trading IQ