Plus minus for this year has IQ at +319. All of Hart, Brunson, Randle, Grimes, Mitch, and Hartenstein all +150 or better. That’s 7 guys who are major nba rotation players with big impact and the eye test lines up. Toppin and Deuce are both a next tier at +56 and +53. They are essentially fringe rotation players and the numbers line up compared to the others. Below the line are mostly guys who didn’t play a ton of games…and RJ Barrett at -62. Now I have always been a Barrett advocate, and I still think he’s a major talent. The issue I have is more with fit than anything. I know Barrett could play on a faster team with an elite PG and bully and slither his way to a much more efficient 20+ ppg. An example would be to put him in Charlotte with Ball and he would be similar to Miles Bridges from last season. But with the way this team is built around the strengths of Brunson and Randle, he’s been a square peg in a round hole. The Knicks will continue to play more methodically, and Quickley and Hart will serve as the energizer change of pace players.

So all of that being said, we can look at the numbers and easily make the argument that while we can argue Barrett’s upside to the death, we can also compromise in the fact that maybe his biggest issue is that he’s just not the perfect fit. Now the playoffs can change that, I hope it does. We know no matter what happens, Barrett’s contract will be used for bait in a superstar trade. But if there’s no superstar trade, the argument can be made that this team has another level to reach just with the perfect role player in place of Barrett- essentially another Josh Hart type player.

So summing it all up, my question is (prior to playoffs), would you keep Barrett going forward and bank on the talent and fit eventually sorting itself out, or would you move him in a trade for a role player who seems like an ideal system fit? This might be someone who essentially takes over as 6th man while Quickley slides into the starting lineup and Grimes plays SF. I know my timing isn’t great on this the day before playoffs. Much more suited for after the season, but just what I’m thinking right now and wanted to get some feedback.

Hard to say without those 2 things being quantified.

Brunson
Grimes
Ingram
Randle
Robinson

IQ
Hart
Hartenstein
would easily be up there for title contention.

TPercy wrote:Ingram or Bridges would be so perfect for this team. Its just tough because with the draft capital the Pelicans already have and their playoff feel last year, they're more inclined to be aggresive themselves. A team of

Brunson
Grimes
Ingram
Randle
Robinson

IQ
Hart
Hartenstein
would easily be up there for title contention.

Either one would be absolutely perfect. I think Bridges especially because of his durability and role-player type fit. I just can’t figure out for the life of me a scenario where either team would trade that player to us without a severe overpay that looks like the Gobert trade.

franco12 wrote:I'm going to give RJ the benefit of the doubt. But I would ask him to work on his 3pt shot.

And then at the start of training camp, I'm going to ask him to take 10 3pt shots from anywhere he wants - wide open, pleasant music playing in the back ground, and if he can't hit 4 of 10, I'd trade him for a 2nd round pick and sack of rocks.

The question I have about RJ is does he as a professional athlete want it. And I don't need MJ type motivation, I just need bare level, I care enough motivation.

fishmike wrote:Im more worried about his lack of a handle and his defense. He's not able to get to his spots to make shots and he's not a plus defender. Those are the things that after 4 years make me want to move on

Don't even need him to be a plus, just average. He was there two seasons ago and then he regressed.

Knixkik wrote:Just some things I want to get off my mind before the playoffs and in hope that I pull a jinx and Barrett has a huge series.

Plus minus for this year has IQ at +319. All of Hart, Brunson, Randle, Grimes, Mitch, and Hartenstein all +150 or better. That’s 7 guys who are major nba rotation players with big impact and the eye test lines up. Toppin and Deuce are both a next tier at +56 and +53. They are essentially fringe rotation players and the numbers line up compared to the others. Below the line are mostly guys who didn’t play a ton of games…and RJ Barrett at -62. Now I have always been a Barrett advocate, and I still think he’s a major talent. The issue I have is more with fit than anything. I know Barrett could play on a faster team with an elite PG and bully and slither his way to a much more efficient 20+ ppg. An example would be to put him in Charlotte with Ball and he would be similar to Miles Bridges from last season. But with the way this team is built around the strengths of Brunson and Randle, he’s been a square peg in a round hole. The Knicks will continue to play more methodically, and Quickley and Hart will serve as the energizer change of pace players.

So all of that being said, we can look at the numbers and easily make the argument that while we can argue Barrett’s upside to the death, we can also compromise in the fact that maybe his biggest issue is that he’s just not the perfect fit. Now the playoffs can change that, I hope it does. We know no matter what happens, Barrett’s contract will be used for bait in a superstar trade. But if there’s no superstar trade, the argument can be made that this team has another level to reach just with the perfect role player in place of Barrett- essentially another Josh Hart type player.

So summing it all up, my question is (prior to playoffs), would you keep Barrett going forward and bank on the talent and fit eventually sorting itself out, or would you move him in a trade for a role player who seems like an ideal system fit? This might be someone who essentially takes over as 6th man while Quickley slides into the starting lineup and Grimes plays SF. I know my timing isn’t great on this the day before playoffs. Much more suited for after the season, but just what I’m thinking right now and wanted to get some feedback.

Had been an RJ advocate historically but agree he's just not a good fit in an offense centered around Randle and Brunson. 2-3 seasons ago I started advocating to trade Randle and see what RJ could do by assuming his role as the centerpiece (sink or swim). While I still think we will finally come to our senses and realize Randle shouldn't be the main focus - he has played much better this year and I won't hold my breath that this occurs soon. So I would move RJ unless Portland would take Randle and Brunson straight up for Dame.

Realistically I like the proposal of Mikal Bridges if we could get him without gutting too much from our bench/picks. I liked Ingram but as talented as he is - don't see it as a good fit to overpay to obtain another similar iso-scorer since we have Randle and Brunson. Ideally we want a knock down shooter that can create a little or only when needed. OG's playoff struggles could open up an opportunity to revisit RJ back home to Toronto. If the Warriors were willing to part with Klay Thompson for RJ I'd do that even though he's very old and injury-riddled. Miles Bridges if he redeemed himself off the court could likely balance out well as our SF. Since there may not be a lot of veteran options that we could trade with - I would look at teams that need talent and have decent prospects or upcoming players (eg Devin Vassell on SA).

So given the way our team is designed/built - I think we should look for a better fit and move RJ this offseason if possible.

jskinny35 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Just some things I want to get off my mind before the playoffs and in hope that I pull a jinx and Barrett has a huge series.

Plus minus for this year has IQ at +319. All of Hart, Brunson, Randle, Grimes, Mitch, and Hartenstein all +150 or better. That’s 7 guys who are major nba rotation players with big impact and the eye test lines up. Toppin and Deuce are both a next tier at +56 and +53. They are essentially fringe rotation players and the numbers line up compared to the others. Below the line are mostly guys who didn’t play a ton of games…and RJ Barrett at -62. Now I have always been a Barrett advocate, and I still think he’s a major talent. The issue I have is more with fit than anything. I know Barrett could play on a faster team with an elite PG and bully and slither his way to a much more efficient 20+ ppg. An example would be to put him in Charlotte with Ball and he would be similar to Miles Bridges from last season. But with the way this team is built around the strengths of Brunson and Randle, he’s been a square peg in a round hole. The Knicks will continue to play more methodically, and Quickley and Hart will serve as the energizer change of pace players.

So all of that being said, we can look at the numbers and easily make the argument that while we can argue Barrett’s upside to the death, we can also compromise in the fact that maybe his biggest issue is that he’s just not the perfect fit. Now the playoffs can change that, I hope it does. We know no matter what happens, Barrett’s contract will be used for bait in a superstar trade. But if there’s no superstar trade, the argument can be made that this team has another level to reach just with the perfect role player in place of Barrett- essentially another Josh Hart type player.

So summing it all up, my question is (prior to playoffs), would you keep Barrett going forward and bank on the talent and fit eventually sorting itself out, or would you move him in a trade for a role player who seems like an ideal system fit? This might be someone who essentially takes over as 6th man while Quickley slides into the starting lineup and Grimes plays SF. I know my timing isn’t great on this the day before playoffs. Much more suited for after the season, but just what I’m thinking right now and wanted to get some feedback.

Had been an RJ advocate historically but agree he's just not a good fit in an offense centered around Randle and Brunson. 2-3 seasons ago I started advocating to trade Randle and see what RJ could do by assuming his role as the centerpiece (sink or swim). While I still think we will finally come to our senses and realize Randle shouldn't be the main focus - he has played much better this year and I won't hold my breath that this occurs soon. So I would move RJ unless Portland would take Randle and Brunson straight up for Dame.

Realistically I like the proposal of Mikal Bridges if we could get him without gutting too much from our bench/picks. I liked Ingram but as talented as he is - don't see it as a good fit to overpay to obtain another similar iso-scorer since we have Randle and Brunson. Ideally we want a knock down shooter that can create a little or only when needed. OG's playoff struggles could open up an opportunity to revisit RJ back home to Toronto. If the Warriors were willing to part with Klay Thompson for RJ I'd do that even though he's very old and injury-riddled. Miles Bridges if he redeemed himself off the court could likely balance out well as our SF. Since there may not be a lot of veteran options that we could trade with - I would look at teams that need talent and have decent prospects or upcoming players (eg Devin Vassell on SA).

So given the way our team is designed/built - I think we should look for a better fit and move RJ this offseason if possible.

Can’t support trading Randle and Brunson for a 32 year old Lillard. That would take us nowhere. In fact we would be far worse. Between his injury history creeping up and age there isn’t enough time to build around him in his twilight years. I believe in Randle as long as Brunson is running the show. Their ages still give them some more upward trajectory. Randle is basically a good player on his own but a great player alongside Brunson. Can’t mess with a good thing. Ingram is nice but the injury history is there. Mikal would seem like such a perfect fit. OG is cool but is probably overrated a bit. He’s never been all-defense and misses a fair amount of time. Although I would still take him for the right cost, I think Caruso give you 60% the value for 30% the cost of Anunoby. Just some thoughts.

fishmike wrote:Go hard after Ingram. He gets banged up a lot but he's the 3 you need. Offer a package around McBride/Obi/RJ and some minor draft comp

Resign IQ
Resign JHart
Brunson/Grimes/Ingram/Jules/Mitch
bench: IQ/JHart/IHart

Those are my 8 guys.