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Grimes has regressed since hart’s arrival
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Caseloads
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3/20/2023  10:51 PM
Just no role in the offense
AUTOADVERT
blkexec
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3/20/2023  11:29 PM
Caseloads wrote:Just no role in the offense

They play the same position and Hart is thibs guy. I want to say start him now because you know thibs will want to and try to start him during the playoffs. With that level of thinking I rather start him before the playoffs. Maybe this will jumpstart grimes to be more of a scorer than a ball mover.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
BRIGGS
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3/21/2023  12:04 AM
Caseloads wrote:Just no role in the offense

Agree he’s gotta be much more involved. He’s like stuck in the middle with stuff. He’s gotta hunt shots more. Use his excellent straight line driving ability. He’s gotta give 12-13 nightly

RIP Crushalot😞
GustavBahler
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3/21/2023  12:17 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Caseloads wrote:Just no role in the offense

Agree he’s gotta be much more involved. He’s like stuck in the middle with stuff. He’s gotta hunt shots more. Use his excellent straight line driving ability. He’s gotta give 12-13 nightly

Why I dont like a strictly 3&D player starting. Mostly specialists to me, someone you bring off the bench.

Grimes has no middle game. If he isnt hitting the 3, he has to make up for it somewhere else. Not having a middle game means that Grimes has to be lights out going to the rim. Sometimes he is, but not enough to be considered a threat.

Something for Grimes to work on in the offseason. Hope he spends all summer playing pick-up ball. Thats how the greats work on their craft.
Alpha1971
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3/21/2023  6:05 AM
blkexec wrote:
Caseloads wrote:Just no role in the offense

They play the same position and Hart is thibs guy. I want to say start him now because you know thibs will want to and try to start him during the playoffs. With that level of thinking I rather start him before the playoffs. Maybe this will jumpstart grimes to be more of a scorer than a ball mover.

Grimes una Thibs favorite. He will be better next season
Philc1
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3/21/2023  6:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/21/2023  6:39 AM
So is consensus still about giving Hart a max extension next summer?
Knixkik
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3/21/2023  8:06 AM
Grimes needs to just take and make open threes. His confidence has been off and he’s passing them up too often.
Nalod
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3/21/2023  8:26 AM
We have seen this before with young guys. They do well, then as part of their development they are tasked with more.
Then they regress until its instinct. Some take longer than others, as do some elements of their game. Few things about development are linear.
I can’t speak for Grimes and what Thibs wants from him. That he has not been pulled from starting is telling as the team is doing well with him and he is learning. My guess is his focus on perhaps defense, or passing is not helping his shooting, but it will.
If not, he is gone. True of all players. He is 22 years old. His days are not numbered.
MaTT4281
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3/21/2023  9:10 AM
blkexec wrote:
Caseloads wrote:Just no role in the offense

They play the same position and Hart is thibs guy. I want to say start him now because you know thibs will want to and try to start him during the playoffs. With that level of thinking I rather start him before the playoffs. Maybe this will jumpstart grimes to be more of a scorer than a ball mover.

I don't expect a change in the playoffs - next season perhaps, barring a big step forward from Grimes this offseason (which I wouldn't be surprised to see). For the moment anyways, it's nice having that influx of energy off the bench between Quick/Hart. Both guys are still his closers, and Thibs is slow to making starting changes.

Agree with Nalod though - yes, Grimes has taken a step back, but it comes with the territory. Sophomore slump and all. The tenacity Grimes was giving us on defense, Hart is providing with added veteran savvy. Q is losing minutes and now overthinking it. I like that he's driving more on offense, but seems like he's dishing it off most of the time. That'll be the next evolution - drive and score rather than drive and reset.
Philc1
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3/21/2023  10:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/21/2023  10:42 AM
Knixkik wrote:Grimes needs to just take and make open threes. His confidence has been off and he’s passing them up too often.

The point Op is making is Grimes was better with a bigger role and more minutes. He’s not a catch and shoot guy he’s an intangibles guy
MS
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3/21/2023  11:49 AM
He’s essentially Obi in the first unit.

Watching him in the rookie game, summer league, he needs opportunities to dribble, catch and shoot, there are never switches to exploit his strengths.

He’s open on the wings but IQ, RJ put their heads down. Hart is looking for the open man. Maybe Hart should start so Grimes has more touches when RJ comes out. We are going to need guys in the playoffs to step up and Grimes can get hot from three.
fishmike
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3/21/2023  12:00 PM
MS wrote:He’s essentially Obi in the first unit.

Watching him in the rookie game, summer league, he needs opportunities to dribble, catch and shoot, there are never switches to exploit his strengths.

He’s open on the wings but IQ, RJ put their heads down. Hart is looking for the open man. Maybe Hart should start so Grimes has more touches when RJ comes out. We are going to need guys in the playoffs to step up and Grimes can get hot from three.


he's the anti Obi. Grimes can play 30 minutes, take one shot and still be useful. He didnt have a good defensive game vs. Minn (obviously nobody did) but his body of work speaks for itself. So do the stats. Grimes has been an elite defender. Nothing Obi-like there dude. If Obi defended like Grimes, Randle would be getting a LOT more rest
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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3/21/2023  1:01 PM
MS wrote:He’s essentially Obi in the first unit.

Watching him in the rookie game, summer league, he needs opportunities to dribble, catch and shoot, there are never switches to exploit his strengths.

He’s open on the wings but IQ, RJ put their heads down. Hart is looking for the open man. Maybe Hart should start so Grimes has more touches when RJ comes out. We are going to need guys in the playoffs to step up and Grimes can get hot from three.

With Brunson back, does grimes play with IQ and Hart?
MS
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3/21/2023  1:05 PM
On offense he is Obi. Stands in the corner and not playing to his strengths. He passes off to quickly to Julius, he’s always handing the ball off.

His ability to blow by people and pass is being totally wasted. he’s obviously a better player but I’ve seen Obi open multiple times and everyone’s head is down.
sealy
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3/21/2023  9:09 PM
fishmike wrote:
MS wrote:He’s essentially Obi in the first unit.

Watching him in the rookie game, summer league, he needs opportunities to dribble, catch and shoot, there are never switches to exploit his strengths.

He’s open on the wings but IQ, RJ put their heads down. Hart is looking for the open man. Maybe Hart should start so Grimes has more touches when RJ comes out. We are going to need guys in the playoffs to step up and Grimes can get hot from three.


he's the anti Obi. Grimes can play 30 minutes, take one shot and still be useful. He didnt have a good defensive game vs. Minn (obviously nobody did) but his body of work speaks for itself. So do the stats. Grimes has been an elite defender. Nothing Obi-like there dude. If Obi defended like Grimes, Randle would be getting a LOT more rest

100%

Grimes has obvious skill and tools that will continue to evolve. Obi feels like he's shown his ceiling.
LivingLegend
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3/21/2023  9:51 PM
Philc1 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Grimes needs to just take and make open threes. His confidence has been off and he’s passing them up too often.

The point Op is making is Grimes was better with a bigger role and more minutes. He’s not a catch and shoot guy he’s an intangibles guy

Larger role should have always come from RJs minutes - RJ has never deserved or earned the amount of minutes or usage he has been given. Grimes better than RJ in every way outside of ppg. Imagine a world where we give Grimes the minutes and 15-20 shots a game RJ takes.

Grimes is a nervous player but near perfect team player in terms of effort/unselfishness—- needs to relax and let it fly.
Panos
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3/22/2023  10:05 AM
I keep expecting him to break out. I feel like he passes the eye test. That's why people keep giving him a pass.
ESOMKnicks
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3/22/2023  10:28 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/22/2023  10:31 AM
Philc1 wrote:So is consensus still about giving Hart a max extension next summer?

They will have too. Otherwise, losing a first round pick to have Hart's services for only 6 months was too steep a price. So, chances are we will overpay for him, a non-shooter whole the team is not exactly full of hawkeyes.. I only hope the FO made the trade having some sort of an understanding with his agent.

As great as Hart has been for us, I think his price has been too steep. Longer term might have been better to develop Grimes.
Philc1
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3/22/2023  10:30 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:
Philc1 wrote:So is consensus still about giving Hart a max extension next summer?

They will have too. Otherwise, losing a first round pick to have Hart's services for only 6 months was too steep a price. So, chances are we will overpay for a non-shooter. I only hope the FO made the trade having some sort of an understanding with his agent.

As great as Hart has been for us, I think his price has been too steep. Longer term might have been better to develop Grimes.

Also we are likely drafting a wing player. Where is that guy supposed to get minutes? Westchester?
martin
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3/22/2023  10:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/22/2023  10:35 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:
Philc1 wrote:So is consensus still about giving Hart a max extension next summer?

They will have too. Otherwise, losing a first round pick to have Hart's services for only 6 months was too steep a price. So, chances are we will overpay for him, a non-shooter whole the team is not exactly full of hawkeyes.. I only hope the FO made the trade having some sort of an understanding with his agent.

As great as Hart has been for us, I think his price has been too steep. Longer term might have been better to develop Grimes.

They will not.

The Knicks do however have the ability to give him 5 years and bigger raises than any other team while giving him a perfect role where he will not be used as an afterthought like he was in POR. Josh has repeatedly repeated (so much so that it seems like a forgone conclusion) that he wants to be in NY and in a stable environment where he fits. NY has all of that to offer. They will come to a contract that makes sense.

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