Last year's Cavs are 38-27.

Maybe the NBA needs to revisit the Donovan Mitchell the Knicks were supposed to be getting until they didn't - the guy Ainge had but traded and who still wasn't going to make the Knicks a contender if they got him?

Panos wrote:The Knicks are in peak form fitting in all cylinders. Offense was absolutely fearsome tonight.
Had me thinking, what would this team look like had it gone ahead with the Donovan Mitchell trade: say they traded IQ, Obi, plus whatever boatload of picks to go all in this year. What would they have landed? Would they be even better with the combo of JB and DM (minus IQ)? Or for some reason worse? (Defense or chemistry or some other factor)

Nalod wrote:Who knows. Mitchell is a star and the chemistry might have been magical.
Or not………..

What clev is or not is not relevant as each team is different.
You want to judge after 60 games? OK. WE on a winning streak and CLEV lost a few in a row and want to feel good about it? Have a good time. Fact is they still ahead of us.

They need more depth and Mobley, who has the highest ceiling to continue his development. It was a “win now” trade but that is a three year window type “win now”.

Bottom line is our FO thought the price was too high and backed off. They had already gotten Brunson and rolled with that.
I would think even our FO is a bit surprised how well Jalen has done. Thibs is doing a top 5 COY job implementing a player that should be “Most improved” and if not for Mike Brown could be the COTY thus far. He said last year “I have to coach Randle better”.
He is.
ANd Mitch.
ANd all but RJ, our yoot is improving.
I would imagine OBI will want out as he is stuck behind Jules and needs minutes.
Grimes and IQ are doing great, and Despite RJ’s regression the team is winning!!!!
JHart is a great glue guy and should help RJ.

Speaking of which, his running sprints look awkward and I wonder if he has a season long “thing” that messing him up.
He has tightened up his game some the last few games over all. Knicks winning perhaps masks whats going on?

I was uncomfortable with the DM trade and glad it did not occur. With some hindsight even more so. If not for the Brunson Signing perhaps we pay that price. But we did not have to.

I disagree. It is indeed relevant because DM is a major reason for Cle being who they are. They added him WHILE keeping their core intact and have absolutely nothing to show for it so far. Granted it's only year one and we haven't seen them perform in the playoffs. So far it looks like we made the right choice of continuing to develop Grimes and IQ. Yes they are ahead of us still but they were ahead of us before the trade too. However the margin is has gotten smaller and that matters. This tread is not about predictions if three years from now, it's about seeing how things have played out so far. So far it doesn't look bad from our side, to say the least.

ramtour420 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Who knows. Mitchell is a star and the chemistry might have been magical.
Or not………..

What clev is or not is not relevant as each team is different.
You want to judge after 60 games? OK. WE on a winning streak and CLEV lost a few in a row and want to feel good about it? Have a good time. Fact is they still ahead of us.

They need more depth and Mobley, who has the highest ceiling to continue his development. It was a “win now” trade but that is a three year window type “win now”.

Bottom line is our FO thought the price was too high and backed off. They had already gotten Brunson and rolled with that.
I would think even our FO is a bit surprised how well Jalen has done. Thibs is doing a top 5 COY job implementing a player that should be “Most improved” and if not for Mike Brown could be the COTY thus far. He said last year “I have to coach Randle better”.
He is.
ANd Mitch.
ANd all but RJ, our yoot is improving.
I would imagine OBI will want out as he is stuck behind Jules and needs minutes.
Grimes and IQ are doing great, and Despite RJ’s regression the team is winning!!!!
JHart is a great glue guy and should help RJ.

Speaking of which, his running sprints look awkward and I wonder if he has a season long “thing” that messing him up.
He has tightened up his game some the last few games over all. Knicks winning perhaps masks whats going on?

I was uncomfortable with the DM trade and glad it did not occur. With some hindsight even more so. If not for the Brunson Signing perhaps we pay that price. But we did not have to.

I disagree. It is indeed relevant because DM is a major reason for Cle being who they are. They added him WHILE keeping their core intact and have absolutely nothing to show for it so far. Granted it's only year one and we haven't seen them perform in the playoffs. So far it looks like we made the right choice of continuing to develop Grimes and IQ. Yes they are ahead of us still but they were ahead of us before the trade too. However the margin is has gotten smaller and that matters. This tread is not about predictions if three years from now, it's about seeing how things have played out so far. So far it doesn't look bad from our side, to say the least.

Some discussion that insinuates plug and play.
We got Brunson. Clev did not. WE still looking up at them.
Our current winning streak and their losing streak is a convenient place to do this from our view.
A lot of good things are playing out for us thus far. Winning, or knicks taking care of its business is all that matters. Im thrilled with our depth for now. Changes logically will occur off season but we have lots of games to play before that.

The next star the FO brings to the Knicks will hopefully have above average passing skills as well.

I really liked the ball movement vs. the Nets.

Baseline trade of IQ/Obi/Grimes/Fournier(salary) + picks for Mitchell.

- Depletes most of our wings. Cam in the rotation out of necessity.
- No Josh Hart trade without our pick.
- Rose or Deuce backup PG (more likely, DM takes over ballhandling in a 3 guard rotation, as we have now).
- Sims at backup PF.

Brunson/Deuce
Mitchell/Rose
RJ/Cam
Randle/Sims
Mitch/IHart

Concerns:

- Not much depth, be tough to adjust for injuries in the front court...like the time missed by RJ and Mitch this year.
- Hope that Cam/Thibs relationship doesn't blow up while we are relying on him.
- Not convinced Brunson goes Super Saiyan while sharing the backcourt with Mitchell. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
- Does Julius bounce back the same way this year if he starts off the year as Robin, not Batman? If JB still explodes, how does Randle respond to being 3rd option?

We had a lot of things break our way this season, very easy to see (with the benefit of hindsight) how it could have gone very wrong.

technomaster wrote:If we had acquired Mitchell by trade, it wouldn't have been all rainbows and butterflies.

The Cavs executed about as good a trade on paper as anyone could have hoped for.
* 4 returning starters - easy slot in for Mitchell
* the traded players were basically redundant pieces
* the first rounders that exchanged hands are a future problem

So the actual results:
* practically the same record as last year
* Garland's about the same, better FG%.
* Mobley has marginal improvements, better FG%, scoring up by 0.7ppg. The team probably expected him to challenge for an all-star spot and to capture more of Markkanen's departed 15ppg/6rpg.
* Allen, LeVert, and "ultimateknicks superstar" Okoro have regressed.

The Knicks added Brunson:
* Randle improved, regained all-NBA quality form and more.
* Mitch, Grimes, Quickley, McBride, Sims have all been more productive than last year. Quickley looks like a star in the making alongside Brunson.
* RJ was more efficient than last year, though his recent February slump and the recent addition of Hart have soured this a bit.
* Obi has regressed (in part because Randle's been great, addition of Hartenstein and emergence of Sims)
* Fournier & Rose lost their jobs.

If Mitchell joined the team, we'd have two 6'1" starting guards. I'm not sure who'd play guard/wing defense. We wouldn't have that feeling of upside with our young players (they'd be on Utah!). We wouldn't have that feeling of "geez, we have SOOO many upcoming draft picks". The cupboard would have been bare.

We're in a really good place. We have a nice core of Randle, Brunson, and Mitch, with a bunch of flexible pieces with upside. And tons of draft picks. I like RJ too, I like his upside and loyalty, but he can be moved because he already has two potential replacements already on the roster (Quickley and Grimes). Or his replacements can be moved for assets. We have Larry Bird rights for virtually everyone on the roster, so if we like our own FAs, we have the power to go over the cap to give 'em what they want, luxury tax be damned. Even if we just bring back the team as-is next season, we're really young so that it would be a reasonable expectation for nearly the entire roster to come back better players.

Ding!

Donavan Mitchell is probably the most talented basketball player on either team.

Doesn't seem he's the best member of a basketball team on either team.

There are aspects of being a member of a basketball team that isn't just about raw talent.

I think the Knicks may have gotten the better member of a basketball team in Brunson.

And yes, pairing them might create issues in which the whole is lesser than the sum of the parts.

That team would be killed on Defense night in and night out...
Those two players on are not meant to be in a starting line-up together.
Both are ball-dominant and are too short to compliment eachother.