BRIGGS wrote:We can’t be arguing we have to role with it. Randle needs to stay strong DONT over focus on3s try to get better shots and keep using the pass. We paid barret knowing he was a 40% player. Accept it and don’t make a mess out of it. Thank god we have Brunson. Pretty much the only good free agent signing since the original Randle contract

Are you saying the Randle contract isn’t a good contract because he had a bad game last night ? Because it is a great value contract for what guys are turning down right now.

BRIGGS wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:We can’t be arguing we have to role with it. Randle needs to stay strong DONT over focus on3s try to get better shots and keep using the pass. We paid barret knowing he was a 40% player. Accept it and don’t make a mess out of it. Thank god we have Brunson. Pretty much the only good free agent signing since the original Randle contract

Are you saying the Randle contract isn’t a good contract because he had a bad game last night ? Because it is a great value contract for what guys are turning down right now.

No opposite
I’m saying this is who we chose to role with—- can’t break their cahones at this point?

BRIGGS wrote:We can’t be arguing we have to role with it. Randle needs to stay strong DONT over focus on3s try to get better shots and keep using the pass. We paid barret knowing he was a 40% player. Accept it and don’t make a mess out of it. Thank god we have Brunson. Pretty much the only good free agent signing since the original Randle contract

I’m more concerned that our offence looks like a pick up game at the YMCA. There is zero discipline or organisation. And then it seems our offensive futility hurts our defensive execution. Either we don’t have an offence or the players are tuning the coaches out. Either one is not good

BRIGGS wrote:We can’t be arguing we have to role with it. Randle needs to stay strong DONT over focus on3s try to get better shots and keep using the pass. We paid barret knowing he was a 40% player. Accept it and don’t make a mess out of it. Thank god we have Brunson. Pretty much the only good free agent signing since the original Randle contract

BRIGGS, when I agree with you I have to announce it because it rarely happens lol. But I agree. I see nothing wrong with fans saying, "I expect more from (fill in the blank)." When did this change? Is it just fans from the UK site? Are we arguing that RJ doesn't make 30mil when instead it's 29mil (lmao).

I don't care if Randle makes $1 per season. If his on court play doesn't produce into team victories, it's ok for fans to call him out. Especially Randle and RJ. Thats the added bonus of being the top paid players on the team. It comes with the territory.

If Randle and / or RJ have bad shooting nights we lose. But if Randle and RJ had more in the tool box, besides shooting jumpers, then our win totals will not be based on if Randle or RJ are shooting good or not shooting good. If they have a bad shooting night, they just keep shooting. Meanwhile, their defense also gets worse, and they pass less and shoot more. That means our season rest on the shooting percentage of these guys, which is not a good thing. We need to find ways to win game, regardless of their bad shooting nights. We have other players who can actually shoot. Thats why RJ was benched for IQ.

Thibs is trying, but he has his own weaknesses to deal with. Randle, RJ, Thibs. We go as far as these 3 guys takes us.

And personally, saying a player is good because he's making less than his piers is a bad approach to building a team with solid chemistry and player who improves each other. I don't see how RJ and Randle helps each other. But I can see JB's impact on the team.

Randle is turning into a jump shooting forward. I rather have bully ball Randle back, with occasional 3's. Because when his jumper not going in, he can rely on his bully ball style. But when you become a jump shooter, you tend to forget your core skill and only focus on shooting. RJ at least is a slasher and when he's off, he goes back to his slashing abilities. This is why I think RJ is easier to build around and young enough to fix old habbits. Randle is who he is. Very solid player. One of the best PF in the game. But I still think we could be smart with Randle and trade him for another equally solid player that fits next to RJ and JB. And no I have no idea who we should trade Randle for, just a hyperthetical trade idea. To be honest, I'm not stuck on trading Randle. It's all about whatever decision is best for the team. Staying the course doesn't seem to get us closer to a chip. Just a reminder we are an average team.

How far will Randle take us? How much will he improve or is this the best we will get? I'm not a fan of individual stats that are empty. I'll take a Deuce who can't shoot, but plays defense, moves the ball and has winning plays over a jump shooting big who's defense is below average and when it counts hes nowhere to be found. I respect Randle and RJ more than most people in this forum. We've had divas who made more money and played with less energy so I respect Randle and RJ for that. Both are solid players who brings it every game and rarely miss any games. Just wanted to give them their flowers before I poop poop all over them.

So there's always that risk of adding a player who might fit, but not available. I get it. But at the same time, you cant get mad at a fan for calling a player out. It's part of the game, just like the refs and their bull shet calls. Thats also part of the game.

Whats the moral of this post, who the hell knows. I'm just as punch drunk as the rest of you. Trying to figure out how we continue to lose games we should win. And don't say this is part of development. RJ, Randle and JB are not players still trying to develop. All 3 have enough experience at this point in their career to carrry a team. They are vets by default, compared to the yoots on this team. Are we saying those 3 need some development time? They need a whole year to finally see results? 4 yrs of Randle and RJ isn't enough? Thats a lot of patience from a NY fan base thats going on a 50 yr droubt. I'm reminded of that every birthday that comes up since I was born in February during their last championship run.

RJ is still very young for the league. 22. His footwork, his ability to attack the rim from different angles, has improved this season.

RJ/Randle/Brunson are the bulk of the offense. In the 4th quarter they're relied on heavily to win the game.

Randle has not shown himself careerwise (and this season) to be a reliable closer. Which means that if Randle is coming up short in the 4th, its mostly on RJ and Brunson.

RJ isnt ready to be that player, night in and night out. If he had a second option the team could count on, there wouldnt be as much riding on RJ to be a closer.

RJ has shown he can close a game, since his rookie season. I dont believe that skill has vanished.

MaTT4281 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:FO needs to improve the roster, unless you believe we're a contender. Thibs needs to emphasize ball movement over isolation heavy
offense. Doesnt mean players like Grimes dont need to improve their ISO skills.

RJ is still very young for the league. 22. His footwork, his ability to attack the rim from different angles, has improved this season.

RJ/Randle/Brunson are the bulk of the offense. In the 4th quarter they're relied on heavily to win the game.

Randle has not shown himself careerwise (and this season) to be a reliable closer. Which means that if Randle is coming up short in the 4th, its mostly on RJ and Brunson.

RJ isnt ready to be that player, night in and night out. If he had a second option the team could count on, there wouldnt be as much riding on RJ to be a closer.

RJ has shown he can close a game, since his rookie season. I dont believe that skill has vanished.

RJ could wind up a jack-of-all-trades, but currently just a master-of-none. Consistency is obviously not there.

But look back at the last 4 years. He's improved upon his 3 point shooting tremendously, put on strength to absorb contact, consistently able to get to the rim (finishing is another story...), improved his FT shooting, added some mid-post moves ala Julius, gets the bigs involved with those short alley oop passes, and is currently on pace for his second consecutive 20 ppg season at age 22.

Where it falls apart for me is his defense. He came into last season saying his goal was to make All NBA Defense first team and ended up being our primary wing defender. He looked good guarding guys like Derozan and Paul George - I really thought this was going to be a strength for him. This year just looks so much slower, both with his reactions and lateral movement.

Still so much promise there, and he seems to have a good work ethic. We had to pay him.

I do not think this is right. He is averaging 34% this year, mostly same as previous. Maybe he has been hotter recently? Maybe taking different types of 3s?

martin wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:FO needs to improve the roster, unless you believe we're a contender. Thibs needs to emphasize ball movement over isolation heavy
offense. Doesnt mean players like Grimes dont need to improve their ISO skills.

RJ is still very young for the league. 22. His footwork, his ability to attack the rim from different angles, has improved this season.

RJ/Randle/Brunson are the bulk of the offense. In the 4th quarter they're relied on heavily to win the game.

Randle has not shown himself careerwise (and this season) to be a reliable closer. Which means that if Randle is coming up short in the 4th, its mostly on RJ and Brunson.

RJ isnt ready to be that player, night in and night out. If he had a second option the team could count on, there wouldnt be as much riding on RJ to be a closer.

RJ has shown he can close a game, since his rookie season. I dont believe that skill has vanished.

RJ could wind up a jack-of-all-trades, but currently just a master-of-none. Consistency is obviously not there.

But look back at the last 4 years. He's improved upon his 3 point shooting tremendously, put on strength to absorb contact, consistently able to get to the rim (finishing is another story...), improved his FT shooting, added some mid-post moves ala Julius, gets the bigs involved with those short alley oop passes, and is currently on pace for his second consecutive 20 ppg season at age 22.

Where it falls apart for me is his defense. He came into last season saying his goal was to make All NBA Defense first team and ended up being our primary wing defender. He looked good guarding guys like Derozan and Paul George - I really thought this was going to be a strength for him. This year just looks so much slower, both with his reactions and lateral movement.

Still so much promise there, and he seems to have a good work ethic. We had to pay him.

I do not think this is right. He is averaging 34% this year, mostly same as previous. Maybe he has been hotter recently? Maybe taking different types of 3s?

Probably shouldn't have used "tremendously", but his 3pt shot is most certainly more reliable than where he started as a rookie. On a night-in, night-out basis, I used to cringe when he was taking his year 1 3's. We've come to years 3 and 4 where you wonder if it's going to be one of those 4-6 nights putting up an effortless 25 points. Guys have to close out on him now - that was not the case early on.

Problem is when it's a bad night, it's a really bad night. For example, had a 4 game stretch in November this year where he went 1-22 from 3. I tend to look at those stretches as the outliers - maybe unfairly so.

MaTT4281 wrote:

martin wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:FO needs to improve the roster, unless you believe we're a contender. Thibs needs to emphasize ball movement over isolation heavy
offense. Doesnt mean players like Grimes dont need to improve their ISO skills.

RJ is still very young for the league. 22. His footwork, his ability to attack the rim from different angles, has improved this season.

RJ/Randle/Brunson are the bulk of the offense. In the 4th quarter they're relied on heavily to win the game.

Randle has not shown himself careerwise (and this season) to be a reliable closer. Which means that if Randle is coming up short in the 4th, its mostly on RJ and Brunson.

RJ isnt ready to be that player, night in and night out. If he had a second option the team could count on, there wouldnt be as much riding on RJ to be a closer.

RJ has shown he can close a game, since his rookie season. I dont believe that skill has vanished.

RJ could wind up a jack-of-all-trades, but currently just a master-of-none. Consistency is obviously not there.

But look back at the last 4 years. He's improved upon his 3 point shooting tremendously, put on strength to absorb contact, consistently able to get to the rim (finishing is another story...), improved his FT shooting, added some mid-post moves ala Julius, gets the bigs involved with those short alley oop passes, and is currently on pace for his second consecutive 20 ppg season at age 22.

Where it falls apart for me is his defense. He came into last season saying his goal was to make All NBA Defense first team and ended up being our primary wing defender. He looked good guarding guys like Derozan and Paul George - I really thought this was going to be a strength for him. This year just looks so much slower, both with his reactions and lateral movement.

Still so much promise there, and he seems to have a good work ethic. We had to pay him.

I do not think this is right. He is averaging 34% this year, mostly same as previous. Maybe he has been hotter recently? Maybe taking different types of 3s?

Probably shouldn't have used "tremendously", but his 3pt shot is most certainly more reliable than where he started as a rookie. On a night-in, night-out basis, I used to cringe when he was taking his year 1 3's. We've come to years 3 and 4 where you wonder if it's going to be one of those 4-6 nights putting up an effortless 25 points. Guys have to close out on him now - that was not the case early on.

Problem is when it's a bad night, it's a really bad night. For example, had a 4 game stretch in November this year where he went 1-22 from 3. I tend to look at those stretches as the outliers - maybe unfairly so.

Maybe I'm just not getting it. RJ 3pt% by year: 32%, 40%, 34%, this year 34%. Feels same'ish to me