BRIGGS wrote:Boy we got jobbed. He is not what we thought. He doesn’t shoot 3s he’s somewhat soft and I don’t even see him as a back up on a good team. Third line center

It’s not all on hart. It’s also the offensive system, offensive iso culture and lack of ball / player movement. Obi was a up and down east bucket in transition guy. Now he’s a spot up shooter. Hart is forced inside to play a traditional center role like Mitch on both ends, But that’s not his game.

On paper hart fits perfect because he opens the offense. But since he’s not a reliable shooter anymore and trying to play closer to the rim, he doesn’t look impactful. Just a bad fit. Or maybe a bad offensive system? Eitherway something has to change and trades have to be made. Or we will continue to take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you Briggs. Im seeing more aggressive play. Doing more of the little things. Taking more shot attempts, more putbacks. Isnt hitting his shots yet, but he really hasnt been taking that many. I'd give that part a little time.

We have three bigs who dont do very much scoring. Hartenstein isnt a scoring center. He's more of a glue guy. Yes Id like to see him start hitting the 3, but I will take more scoring in the paint. Not expecting a big increase, but those 2pters should start falling.

If we had a center who could get buckets, I doubt we would be expecting Hartenstein to be that guy. Dont believe the FO really believed he was.

I won't knock Hart's effort. But he just doesn't seem effective in Thibs scheme. Guys don't seem to respect him when they drive into the paint and he seems to get dislodged too easily on the box out. It's about fit and Thibs doesn't seem likely to bend on this.

Take Hart out of the rotation. Too slow on defense and can’t hit a shot to save his life on offense. Make Obi the backup C and put Reddish back in the rotation to backup Randle at the 4. It’s a smaller lineup but everyone is running smaller lineups in todays nba plus we would actually have 5 guys on offense that can actually score

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you Briggs. Im seeing more aggressive play. Doing more of the little things. Taking more shot attempts, more putbacks. Isnt hitting his shots yet, but he really hasnt been taking that many. I'd give that part a little time.

We have three bigs who dont do very much scoring. Hartenstein isnt a scoring center. He's more of a glue guy. Yes Id like to see him start hitting the 3, but I will take more scoring in the paint. Not expecting a big increase, but those 2pters should start falling.

If we had a center who could get buckets, I doubt we would be expecting Hartenstein to be that guy. Dont believe the FO really believed he was.

I won't knock Hart's effort. But he just doesn't seem effective in Thibs scheme. Guys don't seem to respect him when they drive into the paint and he seems to get dislodged too easily on the box out. It's about fit and Thibs doesn't seem likely to bend on this.

Hart is on par with his career numbers. He is just not hitting shots.
He is taking a bit under one less shot per game.
His rebounding is up. Total assists are basically the same.
But as mentioned, shooting percentages are down.

For that reason, disagree that it's Thibs system. Easy to blame the coach.
Think some fans expect players to play like their highlight reels without looking at their true production. Watching Clip games last year, I saw a guy who was a blue collar player. Nothing great but did not come in and **** the bed. Same thing he is doing now. Anyone that expected more should have watched a few of his games.

I prefer we keep Sims and trade Hart for a more impactful piece.

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you Briggs. Im seeing more aggressive play. Doing more of the little things. Taking more shot attempts, more putbacks. Isnt hitting his shots yet, but he really hasnt been taking that many. I'd give that part a little time.

We have three bigs who dont do very much scoring. Hartenstein isnt a scoring center. He's more of a glue guy. Yes Id like to see him start hitting the 3, but I will take more scoring in the paint. Not expecting a big increase, but those 2pters should start falling.

If we had a center who could get buckets, I doubt we would be expecting Hartenstein to be that guy. Dont believe the FO really believed he was.

I won't knock Hart's effort. But he just doesn't seem effective in Thibs scheme. Guys don't seem to respect him when they drive into the paint and he seems to get dislodged too easily on the box out. It's about fit and Thibs doesn't seem likely to bend on this.

Hart is on par with his career numbers. He is just not hitting shots.
He is taking a bit under one less shot per game.
His rebounding is up. Total assists are basically the same.
But as mentioned, shooting percentages are down.

Disagree that it's Thibs system. Easy to blame the coach.
Think some fans expect players to play like their highlight reels without looking at their true production. Watching Clip games last year, I saw a guy who was a blue collar player. Nothing great but did not come in came in and **** the bed. Same thing he is doing now. Anyone that expected more should have watched a few of his games.

I prefer we keep Sims and trade Hart for more impactful piece.

We're going to have to attached a draft pick to move Hart! Who would trade for him? I think teams looking to fill a back up role center can look at the G league and get a guy for free that will do as much or a bit less than Hart does.

Maybe need to include a pick. Don't think it would take a one. Teams still need an experienced usable big. Maybe they blame scheme as well. Or some other reason why they feel he can be better. Think Hart is better than G League guy though.

If Knicks have to keep him, not the biggest deal.
We have other areas that need more attention.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Maybe its fans expectations?
He is a journeyman back up for 8mm per.
Had a nice few games to start and then backed into to his career norm thus far?
Toronto had issues this season on the court and communications with the coach.
They outed played us again.
Seemed first unit moved ball better last night but shots did not fall when it needed to.
OG and IQ were both out. If Obi was i’d almost say it was a “thing” prior to a trade.

Just fan expectations? He’s been in the rotation the entire season and is now essentially getting close to starter minutes with Mitch out with an injury. He also has 2 years fully guaranteed so it’s not like we can just opt out of his deal next summer we are stuck with this guy through 2024

Reactionary comments with “Why not try…….” Which is pretty easy in the aftermath after a few bad losses. Like “Gee, there are a team of scouts, assistant coaches, and consultants but me, the fan, knows better”.

Close to starters minutes? This is where ignorance occurs making opinions. Look at his MP:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01/gamelog/2023
Pretty much unchanged the last three games.
Its not a question of whether anyone take you seriously here, but perhaps for your self esteem take a moment to check a fact before forming an opinoin. Cuz its not a good look.
As for his level of play, how does his contract or production match up with other 2nd string players with his level of production?
Lets not forget Some posters did the “Hart should start” early in the season. Are we not a wee big impressionable to what we are seeing on TV and what other posters say here? That echo thing is real.
Look at you PHilc? Your so sure of your inaccuracies.
You’ll do what you normally do which is find a blog who you repost as facts when its just anothers opinion.

Obi at center? Did you see the legions of 6-8 guys on Toronto and how they dominated the boards? We missed Mitch, Jules had a very good game rebounding but were is Obi? His coach wants him out on breaks. Thats fine but playing him at center some? His Rim defense is not great, his rebounding is not great, and he plays more like a SF actually.
Im rooting for him. I like him but if there is a trade it might be time to set him free and get minutes elsewhere.

You are acting like Hart barely plays yet he’s been in the rotation since the season began and he stinks. At least when Obi and Randle are on the court together we have 5 guys who can score instead of 4 guys and a Center who misses wide open from 4 ft out and can’t guard a one legged man

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Maybe its fans expectations?
He is a journeyman back up for 8mm per.
Had a nice few games to start and then backed into to his career norm thus far?
Toronto had issues this season on the court and communications with the coach.
They outed played us again.
Seemed first unit moved ball better last night but shots did not fall when it needed to.
OG and IQ were both out. If Obi was i’d almost say it was a “thing” prior to a trade.

Just fan expectations? He’s been in the rotation the entire season and is now essentially getting close to starter minutes with Mitch out with an injury. He also has 2 years fully guaranteed so it’s not like we can just opt out of his deal next summer we are stuck with this guy through 2024

Reactionary comments with “Why not try…….” Which is pretty easy in the aftermath after a few bad losses. Like “Gee, there are a team of scouts, assistant coaches, and consultants but me, the fan, knows better”.

Close to starters minutes? This is where ignorance occurs making opinions. Look at his MP:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harteis01/gamelog/2023
Pretty much unchanged the last three games.
Its not a question of whether anyone take you seriously here, but perhaps for your self esteem take a moment to check a fact before forming an opinoin. Cuz its not a good look.
As for his level of play, how does his contract or production match up with other 2nd string players with his level of production?
Lets not forget Some posters did the “Hart should start” early in the season. Are we not a wee big impressionable to what we are seeing on TV and what other posters say here? That echo thing is real.
Look at you PHilc? Your so sure of your inaccuracies.
You’ll do what you normally do which is find a blog who you repost as facts when its just anothers opinion.

Obi at center? Did you see the legions of 6-8 guys on Toronto and how they dominated the boards? We missed Mitch, Jules had a very good game rebounding but were is Obi? His coach wants him out on breaks. Thats fine but playing him at center some? His Rim defense is not great, his rebounding is not great, and he plays more like a SF actually.
Im rooting for him. I like him but if there is a trade it might be time to set him free and get minutes elsewhere.

You are acting like Hart barely plays yet he’s been in the rotation since the season began and he stinks. At least when Obi and Randle are on the court together we have 5 guys who can score instead of 4 guys and a Center who misses wide open from 4 ft out and can’t guard a one legged man

Im not acting like anything regarding Hart. Im not saying he is playing well. Does not take a genius to see team is losing and he is not playing well.
Im not acting like Harts minutes are up.
Im not acting like Obi at center is a good idea. You want to back that up somehow other than he is 6-9 and can jump.
Hart been on the court during the win streaks also.
And to your point, when Mitch is on the court we have 4 guys that can score.
and IM not acting like the sky is falling when we lost 4 in a row and are still two over .500 and we never gonna win again.
That might happen, but maybe we win a few and enjoy that for what it is: The good with the bad.

franco12 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:A couple of weeks ago I would have agreed with you Briggs. Im seeing more aggressive play. Doing more of the little things. Taking more shot attempts, more putbacks. Isnt hitting his shots yet, but he really hasnt been taking that many. I'd give that part a little time.

We have three bigs who dont do very much scoring. Hartenstein isnt a scoring center. He's more of a glue guy. Yes Id like to see him start hitting the 3, but I will take more scoring in the paint. Not expecting a big increase, but those 2pters should start falling.

If we had a center who could get buckets, I doubt we would be expecting Hartenstein to be that guy. Dont believe the FO really believed he was.

I won't knock Hart's effort. But he just doesn't seem effective in Thibs scheme. Guys don't seem to respect him when they drive into the paint and he seems to get dislodged too easily on the box out. It's about fit and Thibs doesn't seem likely to bend on this.

Hart is on par with his career numbers. He is just not hitting shots.
He is taking a bit under one less shot per game.
His rebounding is up. Total assists are basically the same.
But as mentioned, shooting percentages are down.

For that reason, disagree that it's Thibs system. Easy to blame the coach.
Think some fans expect players to play like their highlight reels without looking at their true production. Watching Clip games last year, I saw a guy who was a blue collar player. Nothing great but did not come in and **** the bed. Same thing he is doing now. Anyone that expected more should have watched a few of his games.

I prefer we keep Sims and trade Hart for a more impactful piece.

Hart's numbers are down across the board aside from rebounding and FT%. His 2 point FG% is down from his career and is below average for the center position overall. Don't look at raw assist numbers.Look at assist %. He's down to 5% from being in the 20s. I think Thibs system is absolutely playing a role in his performance. He's not a good fit. You could do a lot worse as far backup centers, true. But it's clear he's not playing to his strength.

Time to fire Thibs?

I mean, I wouldn't shake things up over the backup center useage. I do think the FO needs to take a long look at how their going to proceed going forward.