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7 1st Rd picks and all of our young players
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Rookie
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8/17/2022  2:32 PM
Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell. If we are at the point where we are willing to trade assets to improve the team we should wait until , at the very least, the trade deadline in February to see who else becomes available.

We could target 2 or even 3 all star caliber players who are a fit with our core in smaller moves. And Mitchell isn’t going anywhere at that price. Eventually he is going to request a trade. Time is on our side
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ramtour420
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8/17/2022  3:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/17/2022  3:23 PM
DM should just go ahead and request a trade ONLY to the Knicks by saying he would not re-sign with anyone else. Why? So that his future team can obtain him without emptying that cupboard. Therefore enabling his future team to stay more competitive while adding him. I know if he had only 1 or 2 years on his deal then that statement would totally turn the tables to our favor, but even with 3 years left he would still be only 28 at the end of that contract and still in his prime. To lose him for nothing at that point would turn away Charlotte and whoever else
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GustavBahler
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8/17/2022  3:29 PM
Interesting question. Most of us thought we did well getting a first rounder for Morris a few seasons ago. Morris wasnt a star, but he was a very good role player. Good enough for a contender to trade for him.

Im hoping while the FO is waiting to see if Ainge will lower his asking price, they're doing what you suggested. Asking themselves if this is the best we can do, to upgrade the roster. With all those picks.

Id love to see the FO use some of those picks to move up in the next draft.
blkexec
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8/17/2022  3:43 PM
Rookie wrote:Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell. If we are at the point where we are willing to trade assets to improve the team we should wait until , at the very least, the trade deadline in February to see who else becomes available.

We could target 2 or even 3 all star caliber players who are a fit with our core in smaller moves. And Mitchell isn’t going anywhere at that price. Eventually he is going to request a trade. Time is on our side

It's supply and demand. Right now DM is the only star on the trade market, so there's no competition. We can assume someone else will be available in the future, but there's no guarantees. And I'm still on the fence with this trade, but the thought is you over pay for DM, and leverage him to attract other stars. With that thinking and timing, I can see why DM is so expensive right now. I believe KD trade will help bring down DM's trade value, at least thats my hope.

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jskinny35
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8/17/2022  6:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/17/2022  6:47 PM
I may be in the minority on this but...

Boston sent Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair and two 2009 first-round picks to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Kevin Garnett.

Nets trade: Alonzo Mourning, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams, two first-round draft picks (2005, 2006). Nets acquire: Vince Carter

McGrady was never traded for more than a few 1st rounders...

I realize these are just a few examples and they occurred a long time ago but aren't draft picks still worth at least as much as they were back then in the early to mid-2000's? If not - how come? Teams still only get 1 first rounder and 1 second per year to rebuild their rosters. Unless that changes I'm not sure why 2 top 15 players in KG and Carter would command 2 and Donovan commands 6 or 7 first rounders. Crazy IMO!

Relative to the time - KG and Carter were both top players known for their offensive output. They were also known for being really, really good but not at that next level where you build your entire team around (eg Kobe). KG was close though. That sounds like Donovan currently to me.

My point is - why would we consider giving 5-6 1st round picks for a talented player that doesn't reach the upper level. Some say because you need him to get another better player to join. If that's true - then shouldn't we keep as many players/picks for that player if Mitchell is going to command 6 1st rounders - what would a better player command? I understand this way of thinking would likely result in another team giving more picks and outbidding us - but maybe that's better because value is still value. Just because Ainge fleeced Minnesota doesn't mean we should adjust to it and overpay so much.

For me 3 1st rounders + Fournier (or D.Rose) and IQ would be my limit. You can substitute Cam, McBride, etc...

Anything more would be an overpay. And yes... stay off my lawn!
Nalod
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8/17/2022  7:57 PM
Different circumstance for each, and each player we know the history vs. young players and picks going forward.
Who was to be a free agent and when? This matters. Telfair did not pan out, but what if he did? What if Minny was able to succeed better? PIcks then were not protected as they are now, so perhaps they were more valuable?
How old was said player and years on contract? What position and their ranking in that position? Big men were a premium and not so now.
Mourning was on his last legs for sure. Vince had tanked but it could have been thought he was losing steam and what was his contract at that time?
I know its about “**** Boston-Ainge” but I do question the precedence of previous value. I know this from what I have read that Brock Aller is a fastidious worker in the process of trades/salary of applying “apparent value”. We have seen in the Leon era contracts that are fair for all parties and trades that are reasonalble. I too are “offended” by ainge request but if off base we won’t do it. How do I know? I don’t, but I have faith that our dude is on it.
martin
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8/17/2022  9:43 PM
Rookie wrote:Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell.

That’s not really the outline of the trade parameters, just what are options that could be included - and if it’s not clear, not all the options can be had.

For whatever reason, I see 3 different packages: Utah can either have picks or young players. Maybe a combo, but the more young players Utah wants, then they get stuck with the less valuable picks.

Dark horse trade: RJ (with salary match) and a few picks with at least 1 being unprotected.

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blkexec
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8/17/2022  10:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/17/2022  10:15 PM
martin wrote:
Rookie wrote:Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell.

That’s not really the outline of the trade parameters, just what are options that could be included - and if it’s not clear, not all the options can be had.

For whatever reason, I see 3 different packages: Utah can either have picks or young players. Maybe a combo, but the more young players Utah wants, then they get stuck with the less valuable picks.

Dark horse trade: RJ (with salary match) and a few picks with at least 1 being unprotected.

Martin………you was always down on RJ so I’m not surprised at this trade. But I’m also not mad at it. I love RJ because he will always work hard and bring 100% energy regardless. But I question is he will ever reach d.Mitch level. If trading RJ reduces the amount of yoots and picks we give up, I’m ok with this. You can always use picks and yoots to add another RJ level player after getting D.Mitch

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TheGame
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8/17/2022  11:30 PM
The issue is who other than Mitchell is available? Zach Levine just resigned. Who else is worth a huge trade offer that is both under 28 and available? I cannot think of anyone worth the offer other than maybe Jalen Brown who I would value more than Mitchell because he is a far superior defensive player, but even for Jalen Brown, I would not give up seven picks. I think the Knicks should explore options but I think Mitchell is the top player available and we will eventually get him. I just hope the Knicks limit the picks to four and only give up two of our four young players. If Utah is not willing to take it, then just forego the trade and stick to what we have. By the trade deadline another allstar will be available.
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gradyandrew
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8/18/2022  4:29 AM    LAST EDITED: 8/18/2022  6:22 AM
TheGame wrote:The issue is who other than Mitchell is available? Zach Levine just resigned. Who else is worth a huge trade offer that is both under 28 and available? I cannot think of anyone worth the offer other than maybe Jalen Brown who I would value more than Mitchell because he is a far superior defensive player, but even for Jalen Brown, I would not give up seven picks. I think the Knicks should explore options but I think Mitchell is the top player available and we will eventually get him. I just hope the Knicks limit the picks to four and only give up two of our four young players. If Utah is not willing to take it, then just forego the trade and stick to what we have. By the trade deadline another allstar will be available.

Whatever value DM had to the Knicks was severely impacted by the Brunson signing. How many lead guards do you need? I don't even see a DM trade as a for sure bet that it will improve the Knicks. Again, you're not replacing Elfrid or Kemba's possessions, you're replacing Brunson's, after Brunson outplayed DM in the playoffs.

From Utah's standpoint, they have never been a big FA destination so I'm not really sure cap space means anything to them. At the end of the season it was said Utah would move one or the other and they did. I don't think they are desperate to move on from DM.

As for who else is available- how about KD? That's a move that automatically raises the roof and kind of puts everyone into place. Trade wise- Fournier RJ Obi and IQ for KD work, in addition to the 7 picks. Knicks would have only 10 guys so they would have to fill out the rest of the roster with available FA's- Carmelo Iggy Bledsoe would be possibilities. Knicks would roll with:

Brunson/ Rose/ McBride
Grimes/ Bledsoe
KD/ Reddish/ Iggy
Randle/ Melo
Robinson/ Hart/ Sims

I'm not sure if that makes the Knicks contenders- it still looks like they would be a trade or two away but it gets them close depending on how well Randle can shoot the 3.
martin
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8/18/2022  7:09 AM
blkexec wrote:
martin wrote:
Rookie wrote:Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell.

That’s not really the outline of the trade parameters, just what are options that could be included - and if it’s not clear, not all the options can be had.

For whatever reason, I see 3 different packages: Utah can either have picks or young players. Maybe a combo, but the more young players Utah wants, then they get stuck with the less valuable picks.

Dark horse trade: RJ (with salary match) and a few picks with at least 1 being unprotected.

Martin………you was always down on RJ so I’m not surprised at this trade. But I’m also not mad at it. I love RJ because he will always work hard and bring 100% energy regardless. But I question is he will ever reach d.Mitch level. If trading RJ reduces the amount of yoots and picks we give up, I’m ok with this. You can always use picks and yoots to add another RJ level player after getting D.Mitch

Strangely, if you can believe it, this is not me trying to be down on RJ, rather just trying to think about what Utah would want and what NY would be OK with. Different scenarios.

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martin
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8/18/2022  7:13 AM
TheGame wrote:The issue is who other than Mitchell is available? Zach Levine just resigned. Who else is worth a huge trade offer that is both under 28 and available? I cannot think of anyone worth the offer other than maybe Jalen Brown who I would value more than Mitchell because he is a far superior defensive player, but even for Jalen Brown, I would not give up seven picks. I think the Knicks should explore options but I think Mitchell is the top player available and we will eventually get him. I just hope the Knicks limit the picks to four and only give up two of our four young players. If Utah is not willing to take it, then just forego the trade and stick to what we have. By the trade deadline another allstar will be available.

Before this offseason - let's say summer 2021 - who would have thought Gobert, Mitchell, Kyrie, Durant would come up on the market?

Who thought Jalen Bruson would be a nice addition? Who thought Russel would be that terrible?

Something will pop. Wiggins out there.

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Nalod
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8/18/2022  10:00 AM
I suppose its what does 22 year old RJ become, not what he is.
Not saying he is untouchable but I don’t give him up cheaply if the potential is apparent.
Fans thoughts vs. reality.
What is the reality? Teams makes mistakes in both directions so who are we to know better.
gradyandrew
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8/18/2022  12:04 PM
Nalod wrote:I suppose its what does 22 year old RJ become, not what he is.
Not saying he is untouchable but I don’t give him up cheaply if the potential is apparent.
Fans thoughts vs. reality.
What is the reality? Teams makes mistakes in both directions so who are we to know better.

Just from a size/ strength angle RJ has a big advantage over DM. A DM/ Brunson backcourt makes you wonder about the defense.
blkexec
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8/18/2022  12:14 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
Nalod wrote:I suppose its what does 22 year old RJ become, not what he is.
Not saying he is untouchable but I don’t give him up cheaply if the potential is apparent.
Fans thoughts vs. reality.
What is the reality? Teams makes mistakes in both directions so who are we to know better.

Just from a size/ strength angle RJ has a big advantage over DM. A DM/ Brunson backcourt makes you wonder about the defense.

Take a hit on defense vs Take a hit on offense (RJ vs DM scenario)

But what about (Grimes vs DM scenario?)

Brunson & DM vs Brunson & Grimes?

With Grimes you gain defense.
With DM how much offense do you gain?

What about chemistry?

Brunson with a stand still shooter like Grimes and a stronger defender (6'4)
vs
Brunson with a iso dynamic offensive all star like DM and a relatively weaker defender (6'1)

I'm leaning towards the Brunson and Grimes combo personally. Use the extra picks / depth to add an all star at a much needed position (whatever position that is).

If we didn't have Brunson, it's a no brainer. With Brunson, is DM going to move the needle as our 2 guard? If so, how far? VS Grimes has a chance to grow into a 2 way catch and shoot role.

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Rookie
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8/18/2022  12:14 PM
martin wrote:
Rookie wrote:Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell.

That’s not really the outline of the trade parameters, just what are options that could be included - and if it’s not clear, not all the options can be had.

For whatever reason, I see 3 different packages: Utah can either have picks or young players. Maybe a combo, but the more young players Utah wants, then they get stuck with the less valuable picks.

Dark horse trade: RJ (with salary match) and a few picks with at least 1 being unprotected.

I don’t think our FO leaks any details and all of the rumors have come from Utah and LA. I do believe that Utah asked for all of the players and all of the picks. We might have told them you can can picks or players but not both.

How many picks? I don’t think it ever got that far. We walked away from 3 first rd picks for Kyle Lowry years ago. Didn’t we trade 3 firsts and young players for Anthony? 3 1st rd picks for a player like Mitchell sounds about right. 7 picks and all our young players is a joke. There is zero precedent for the ask.

I do believe that we are looking to upgrade the roster and we have the assets to do it. I have to wonder if Mitchell will become more available after Utah sells some season tickets. Their revenue is going to be cr&p this year. They have 1 national broadcast game and you know that’s getting cancelled if there is no Mitchel deal to the Knicks. Utah is in a position of weakness they just don’t know it yet or are still drunk from the Gobert trade. Time is on our side. Players will shake loose at the trade deadline. Players who could be a better fit with the players we have
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8/18/2022  2:47 PM
Or we might find as the season progresses, that Fournier is giving us enough on offense to make the FO question why we should be potentially investing so much to upgrade that position. Might find that the resources should be directed elsewhere.

Rookie wrote:
martin wrote:
Rookie wrote:Is it just me or let’s just say if we did trade 7 1st rd picks and all of our young players that we could get a heck of a lot more in return than Donovan Mitchell.

That’s not really the outline of the trade parameters, just what are options that could be included - and if it’s not clear, not all the options can be had.

For whatever reason, I see 3 different packages: Utah can either have picks or young players. Maybe a combo, but the more young players Utah wants, then they get stuck with the less valuable picks.

Dark horse trade: RJ (with salary match) and a few picks with at least 1 being unprotected.

I don’t think our FO leaks any details and all of the rumors have come from Utah and LA. I do believe that Utah asked for all of the players and all of the picks. We might have told them you can can picks or players but not both.

How many picks? I don’t think it ever got that far. We walked away from 3 first rd picks for Kyle Lowry years ago. Didn’t we trade 3 firsts and young players for Anthony? 3 1st rd picks for a player like Mitchell sounds about right. 7 picks and all our young players is a joke. There is zero precedent for the ask.

I do believe that we are looking to upgrade the roster and we have the assets to do it. I have to wonder if Mitchell will become more available after Utah sells some season tickets. Their revenue is going to be cr&p this year. They have 1 national broadcast game and you know that’s getting cancelled if there is no Mitchel deal to the Knicks. Utah is in a position of weakness they just don’t know it yet or are still drunk from the Gobert trade. Time is on our side. Players will shake loose at the trade deadline. Players who could be a better fit with the players we have
Nalod
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8/18/2022  2:56 PM
Again, apparent value. What was Lowrey age/contract and where was Toronto at that moment? and Lowrey stepped it up big time after, so that matters. In hindsight!

Wingspan. "Spida" is 7 foot. Grimes is 6-8. Grimes is a good defender and a good shooter. He played 45 games and avg 17 min a game. Take the per 36 and have at it? Not that easy.
Melo? That was 3 picks and what was a 3 young ex 1st round picks plus Mozgov. Melo had an opt out. He had leverage.
DM not asking and is 3 years still in contract.

Adding a still to be 26 year old 3x all star is not an upgrade to unknown quantity Grimes?
Chemistry. Good question. Grimes got that too?

Don't get me wrong, Im good if we don't get DM and Im not down with selling the ranch for him. Tell me Thibs wants him? Tell me Bryant wants him with Brunson? Tell me Aller has the spread sheets and is happy.
Then show me the wins!!!!!!
Tell me RJ is not a stud?
Get me closer to contending?
GustavBahler
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8/18/2022  5:00 PM
They talked on FS1 about a report that the Lakers offered two first round picks for Kyrie, and the Nets declined. Even with his baggage, thats a lowball offer to reunite him with LeBron for another title run. Still shows how ridiculous Ainge's trade demands are for Mitchell.
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8/18/2022  9:01 PM
Would you be upset if the news breaks out the Mitchell is finally traded to the hornets or the wizards? Im actually starting to be indifferent on the Mitchell situation, dont get me wrong il would like him to be a knick this coming season but with the looks of it the trade package the jazz is asking from the knicks will surpass the melo trade package by a mile. I already dont like the melo package. I would be upset with the news if the package from the wizards or hornets could be easily topped by the knicks but if its a historic haul im fime with it. There is still a chance Mitchell wouldn't re-sign with his new team, he clearly loves New York.

Im waiting for the thunder to start with the second phase of their rebuilding plan, the way the 76er did, trading their young players and starting to be more relevant. Maybe SGA will be available, a Brunson-SGA-RJ would be nice.
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