Now the Knicks have Brunson and that’s not all. They have Drose as the vet backup, who can be the perfect compliment when healthy. They have Quickley who serves as the change of pace combo guard most good teams have, that can continue to develop his playmaking in spurts and maybe be the backup PG of the future while also playing alongside Brunson for stretches. A true 6th man. Then they have the defensive standout McBride who sort of gives that “break in case of emergency “ feel when we need a stopper. Jokubaitis may have been a first round pick this year even without coming over, and Montero is an interesting development project for the gleague seeing how he had a first round grade at one point during the college season. That’s 6 PGs all with various skill sets and at different stages of development and value that are in the pipeline to make the PG position stable for the foreseeable future.

I believe championships are generally won at the wing and forward positions, but the PG position is so important to sustainable success, because unless you have an elite playmaking wing or a Jokic, the PG creates the continuity and chemistry of a team. You can’t win with a new stopgap PG each year. In fact, Payton at least created some continuity and the Knicks thrived that season, as bad as he was. I’m looking forward to a real PG room and want to see it actually stay the same year over year, and I believe it will lead to better success. As Drose ages out, looking forward to seeing how IQ, McBride, Jokubaitis and Montero develop behind Brunson, and hope Brunson can finally solve the PG dilemma that has lasted a lifetime.

As you alluded to, we should spend our money on wings, I think we are pretty good right now re PG (and in the next few years will probably move one of Joka or McBride, depending on a few things.)

Knixkik wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:I hope we sign Montero to develop in the G-League for a few years. We are finally in relatively good shape with Deuce, Jokabitis and Montero. I do wish Deuce had seen more minutes last year to see what he was, as well as starting IQ, but I am very happy with the Brunson acquisition.
We probably need to move Fournier though. He is going to take minutes from Grimes and Cam (to a point.) And worst of all, we really can't have Fournier out there starting due to his defense.

As you alluded to, we should spend our money on wings, I think we are pretty good right now re PG (and in the next few years will probably move one of Joka or McBride, depending on a few things.)

Cam seems like odd man out once again. Moving Fournier would be fine but he’s our best shooter and the wing group is already limited. Barrett, Fournier, Grimes and Reddish. That’s it. No other wing prospects in the pipeline. While the PG room is full, the wing room isn’t. Grimes taking a big Step forward is probably the big x-factor this season. He’s our 3 and D guy, but if he can create a little too that will be huge. We need him to become a more versatile version of what Bullock was for us.

Rose/McBride are a great 2/3 to start the season and I see IQ as our Jamal Crawford/Bobby Jackson 6th man and often finisher for the next decade unless he goes in some package for a bigger fish

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:I hope we sign Montero to develop in the G-League for a few years. We are finally in relatively good shape with Deuce, Jokabitis and Montero. I do wish Deuce had seen more minutes last year to see what he was, as well as starting IQ, but I am very happy with the Brunson acquisition.
We probably need to move Fournier though. He is going to take minutes from Grimes and Cam (to a point.) And worst of all, we really can't have Fournier out there starting due to his defense.

As you alluded to, we should spend our money on wings, I think we are pretty good right now re PG (and in the next few years will probably move one of Joka or McBride, depending on a few things.)

Cam seems like odd man out once again. Moving Fournier would be fine but he’s our best shooter and the wing group is already limited. Barrett, Fournier, Grimes and Reddish. That’s it. No other wing prospects in the pipeline. While the PG room is full, the wing room isn’t. Grimes taking a big Step forward is probably the big x-factor this season. He’s our 3 and D guy, but if he can create a little too that will be huge. We need him to become a more versatile version of what Bullock was for us.

Its taking some time but we are finally looking good. Brunson is a great start. Ive been open about his shortcomings and ceiling but he does so many things right. My hope is he's a Lowry type player for us. Their careers are eerily similar for age/size/style of play and both are tough hard nosed guys.

Rose/McBride are a great 2/3 to start the season and I see IQ as our Jamal Crawford/Bobby Jackson 6th man and often finisher for the next decade unless he goes in some package for a bigger fish

I knew you'd come around to Brunson eventually I know there are some of us who'd go digging through old threads on Google just to say 'I told you so!'. Don't worry, I'm above that. Seriously, I think having a competent, seasoned ball handler will go a long way. I still see this as a 40 win team, but there is room for internal improvement. The kids are alright. At least until the team needs to start talking about extensions.

As for Brunson he's a huge upgrade, fills a need, is a very likable player (work ethic, BB IQ) and is also a great offensive player and that was HUGE issue last year with our two worst EF% players taking the first and second most shots. Did we overpay in terms of salary? Who cares. If we did its not gonna hurt more than failing to procure the player we needed. It didnt cost us the picks I thought it might so Im totally on board with this. Its really a redo from last year's wasted cap space fiasco and Im great with that.

We come out of this with a good PG locked up, at least 2 FRPs in next year's double draft, a great backup center and a rotation hole (Burks) that will need a young player to step in (our money is on Grimes). To me thats a really good offseason. We are young, well coached and have a pipeline of both young players and future picks. Im a pretty happy camper.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:I hope we sign Montero to develop in the G-League for a few years. We are finally in relatively good shape with Deuce, Jokabitis and Montero. I do wish Deuce had seen more minutes last year to see what he was, as well as starting IQ, but I am very happy with the Brunson acquisition.
We probably need to move Fournier though. He is going to take minutes from Grimes and Cam (to a point.) And worst of all, we really can't have Fournier out there starting due to his defense.

As you alluded to, we should spend our money on wings, I think we are pretty good right now re PG (and in the next few years will probably move one of Joka or McBride, depending on a few things.)

Cam seems like odd man out once again. Moving Fournier would be fine but he’s our best shooter and the wing group is already limited. Barrett, Fournier, Grimes and Reddish. That’s it. No other wing prospects in the pipeline. While the PG room is full, the wing room isn’t. Grimes taking a big Step forward is probably the big x-factor this season. He’s our 3 and D guy, but if he can create a little too that will be huge. We need him to become a more versatile version of what Bullock was for us.

Its taking some time but we are finally looking good. Brunson is a great start. Ive been open about his shortcomings and ceiling but he does so many things right. My hope is he's a Lowry type player for us. Their careers are eerily similar for age/size/style of play and both are tough hard nosed guys.

Rose/McBride are a great 2/3 to start the season and I see IQ as our Jamal Crawford/Bobby Jackson 6th man and often finisher for the next decade unless he goes in some package for a bigger fish

I knew you'd come around to Brunson eventually I know there are some of us who'd go digging through old threads on Google just to say 'I told you so!'. Don't worry, I'm above that. Seriously, I think having a competent, seasoned ball handler will go a long way. I still see this as a 40 win team, but there is room for internal improvement. The kids are alright. At least until the team needs to start talking about extensions.

I have to tell you, I'm having a hard time gauging where the Knicks win totals will fall but pretty much every disaster hit last year and they were a 37 win team.

Yep, but we're not the only team that improved. Even the lower rung teams have made some roster improvements. Wins will be tough to come by. And I also expect some growing pains as the new pieces become acclimated. I think around .500 is reasonable.

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:I hope we sign Montero to develop in the G-League for a few years. We are finally in relatively good shape with Deuce, Jokabitis and Montero. I do wish Deuce had seen more minutes last year to see what he was, as well as starting IQ, but I am very happy with the Brunson acquisition.
We probably need to move Fournier though. He is going to take minutes from Grimes and Cam (to a point.) And worst of all, we really can't have Fournier out there starting due to his defense.

As you alluded to, we should spend our money on wings, I think we are pretty good right now re PG (and in the next few years will probably move one of Joka or McBride, depending on a few things.)

Cam seems like odd man out once again. Moving Fournier would be fine but he’s our best shooter and the wing group is already limited. Barrett, Fournier, Grimes and Reddish. That’s it. No other wing prospects in the pipeline. While the PG room is full, the wing room isn’t. Grimes taking a big Step forward is probably the big x-factor this season. He’s our 3 and D guy, but if he can create a little too that will be huge. We need him to become a more versatile version of what Bullock was for us.

Its taking some time but we are finally looking good. Brunson is a great start. Ive been open about his shortcomings and ceiling but he does so many things right. My hope is he's a Lowry type player for us. Their careers are eerily similar for age/size/style of play and both are tough hard nosed guys.

Rose/McBride are a great 2/3 to start the season and I see IQ as our Jamal Crawford/Bobby Jackson 6th man and often finisher for the next decade unless he goes in some package for a bigger fish

I knew you'd come around to Brunson eventually I know there are some of us who'd go digging through old threads on Google just to say 'I told you so!'. Don't worry, I'm above that. Seriously, I think having a competent, seasoned ball handler will go a long way. I still see this as a 40 win team, but there is room for internal improvement. The kids are alright. At least until the team needs to start talking about extensions.

I have to tell you, I'm having a hard time gauging where the Knicks win totals will fall but pretty much every disaster hit last year and they were a 37 win team.

Yep, but we're not the only team that improved. Even the lower rung teams have made some roster improvements. Wins will be tough to come by. And I also expect some growing pains as the new pieces become acclimated. I think around .500 is reasonable.

I am closer to the under on 40 wins than most.

I think the Knicks get more efficient on offense simply by moving shots from Barrett to Brunson. I think Rose returning is a positive value add. I just don't think this roster is "finished" and it doesn't work for me on paper.

a line of Brunson/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson doesn't really have the floor spacing that I think Brunson needs to work well. I think Brunson needs players that spread the floor and can move without the ball.

a line of Rose/IQ/Grimes/Toppin/Hart should run circles around that first unit in 5 om 5s.

They should let Brunson run with that second unit until people realize it is the better but less expensive unit and then trade Randle, Barrett and Fournier for a star SF and rotation pieces.

A lot of players had down seasons from 3 though. I am hoping that an offseason with that new ball will straighten our guys out.

I'd rather be really really bad than marginal. I might be open to Randle/Fournier/Rose for Westbrook and draft picks for a season if we accepted we were tanking and just cleared the roster space. Depending on what they give Barrett, they could have like 60mm in free agency, a high draft pick and well, not competing with Detroit and Washington for playoff spots makes it marginally more likely that those picks vest next year. You could take a flyer on Westbrook or just cut him.

Brunson/McBride
Grimes/IQ
Barrett/Reddish
Toppin/
Robinson/Hart/Sims

You'd have this and next year you add 2 maybe 4 first rd draft picks to the roster, together with Rokas and another 50mm of cap space to absorb contracts (like OKC) or pull the trigger on a free agent.

Pass on Westbrook. If we want to develop players, Westbrook will take up a lot of space, because he can still get buckets.

Believe last season was more of an outlier. Randle's regression, having to play Burks at PG. Rose was out as well (that was 50-50 odds).

Offseason improvement by our young players. Who will now have a better sense of their roles with a legit PG.

Randle playing better than last season, with less of the load to carry, isnt what I would call a longshot. As Martin pointed out upthread, we still managed 37 wins. 10 more wins is plausible.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:I hope we sign Montero to develop in the G-League for a few years. We are finally in relatively good shape with Deuce, Jokabitis and Montero. I do wish Deuce had seen more minutes last year to see what he was, as well as starting IQ, but I am very happy with the Brunson acquisition.
We probably need to move Fournier though. He is going to take minutes from Grimes and Cam (to a point.) And worst of all, we really can't have Fournier out there starting due to his defense.

As you alluded to, we should spend our money on wings, I think we are pretty good right now re PG (and in the next few years will probably move one of Joka or McBride, depending on a few things.)

Cam seems like odd man out once again. Moving Fournier would be fine but he’s our best shooter and the wing group is already limited. Barrett, Fournier, Grimes and Reddish. That’s it. No other wing prospects in the pipeline. While the PG room is full, the wing room isn’t. Grimes taking a big Step forward is probably the big x-factor this season. He’s our 3 and D guy, but if he can create a little too that will be huge. We need him to become a more versatile version of what Bullock was for us.

Its taking some time but we are finally looking good. Brunson is a great start. Ive been open about his shortcomings and ceiling but he does so many things right. My hope is he's a Lowry type player for us. Their careers are eerily similar for age/size/style of play and both are tough hard nosed guys.

Rose/McBride are a great 2/3 to start the season and I see IQ as our Jamal Crawford/Bobby Jackson 6th man and often finisher for the next decade unless he goes in some package for a bigger fish

I knew you'd come around to Brunson eventually I know there are some of us who'd go digging through old threads on Google just to say 'I told you so!'. Don't worry, I'm above that. Seriously, I think having a competent, seasoned ball handler will go a long way. I still see this as a 40 win team, but there is room for internal improvement. The kids are alright. At least until the team needs to start talking about extensions.

I have to tell you, I'm having a hard time gauging where the Knicks win totals will fall but pretty much every disaster hit last year and they were a 37 win team.

37 wins and the worst 4th quarter team in the league. Would have to think Brunson plus a healthy-ish Drose will make a huge difference in that area.

The Knicks also dabbled with Brandon Jennings (post-injury) age 28, but he was a bust and was never awesome again after the injury. We also had Trey Burke for a short (awesome) stretch and of course Linsanity... and Shved-sanity. But amazingly we've really had a whole cast of aging stars (Kidd, Billups, Baron Davis, Bibby) as well as many young wannabe's that had a handful of good games but never translated over time, mostly due to their own doing (or lack of doing). (Sorry Ntilikina, Mudiay, DSJ, Elfrid!)

Yeah, it looks like we have our first league average or better starting quality PG. Right now, we look deep on on rotation-capable PGs, so this bodes well for stability.

BingBong wrote:It is a nice change to see the Knicks focus on the backcourt. No mention of Keel in this thread. Still trying to figure out where he fits into the big picture

I failed to mention him in the comment about wings in the pipeline. He’s a true SG/SF who will need to improve in many areas to be a future contributor. He’s a 2-way contract player which is a good start. But I think his best case is maybe a 5th wing on a good team. An excellent 2nd round pick though.

JesseDark wrote:Don't we have to account for the Euro stash guy we got that always gets rave reviews, (can't remember his name.) I don't think he is on the summer league roster, but is suppose to be the real deal at pt guard.

Jokubaitis is discussed in my original thread. He has talent. I think ideally he becomes an elite backup PG to Brunson as Rose completes his career.