Panos wrote:Spinovers, missed shots, bad shots, getting blocked, ball stopping, bad passing.
Just ugly basketball.

Amen,

I will not miss Randle.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Nalod wrote:Knicks go to the rim a lot. Its why they get blocked.
They are 2nd in the league in FT attemps this season.
Individually Randle 21st and RJ is 25th in the league.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/free-throws-attempted-per-game

Getting opponents in foul trouble matters.

Good stat. They have been playing much better since they have been attacking the rim. Much prefer attacking the rim than the 18 foot spinning fadeaway jump shot. It’s unblockable but is horribly inefficient.

I’m gonna give the boys a free pass on the poor play yesterday. Mostly cause it ended in a win, but I think they were a bit upset about losing Kenny Payne to Louisville. He was always the relationship coach.

That could be. They play bad the whole game or the last two minutes?
Kuzma was crazy those last few minutes! We had a few good looks but could not convert.
Some wins are better than others but wins are all good! These games are massively builders for the yoot!

Yes we get to the line and I thought a while back since jan 1st we like top three in league at FT attempts!
Yeah thats why we get blocked.

Im sure the Kentucky guys were upset Payne is leaving. Randle has 10 year relationship with him! As he was quoted, he is sick but happy he got the gig!

Allanfan20 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Need a PG and he will be more efficient.

No he wont.

I don't understand how he can repeatedly do the same stupid moves over and over with such low efficiency. They might have worked last year, but they don't work this year. Just stop.
Is no one telling him that in the film session?

Panos wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Need a PG and he will be more efficient.

No he wont.

I don't understand how he can repeatedly do the same stupid moves over and over with such low efficiency. They might have worked last year, but they don't work this year. Just stop.
Is no one telling him that in the film session?

Honestly, it’s seems like Thibs doesn’t pay a lot of attention to eFG. He’s improving, but vs last year the Knicks just aren’t shooting as well.

I use Bud’a Bucks as a good example of a decent shooting team (not amazing) that makes the most of its eFG.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/milwaukee-bucks-shot-chart-this-season

Compare with this (it’s easier to open both and flip back and forth)

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/knicks-shot-chart-this-season

To the extent the Bucks are taking shots that are not in the paint or beyond the arc, the ones they take are dark blue -meaning they hit at a rate significantly higher than league average.

This speaks to something that Bud was doing back with Atlanta, he was finding ways to get his players shots from locations where the player was most efficient.

The Knicks don’t seem to have a prohibition on turn around fadeaway 18 footers. Last season, Randle was surprisingly good at those . But as you compare, the differences between Bud and Thibs, the Bucks offense is a bit of an eFG machine to back up their very good defense.

The loosely goosey nature (eg dribble dribble iso ball) doesn’t really focus on getting players the ball where the player is most efficient, it basically accepts the shot that the defense is willing to give (in our case, often 18 foot turnaround fadeaways).

The last 10 games or so, the Knicks have seemed to throw off that leash and just attacked the rim (across the boards). It still not in context of an organized offense with plays intended to get the ball to players in locations that they are efficient, but it’s a step in the right direction.

gradyandrew wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Need a PG and he will be more efficient.

No he wont.

I don't understand how he can repeatedly do the same stupid moves over and over with such low efficiency. They might have worked last year, but they don't work this year. Just stop.
Is no one telling him that in the film session?

Honestly, it’s seems like Thibs doesn’t pay a lot of attention to eFG. He’s improving, but vs last year the Knicks just aren’t shooting as well.

I use Bud’a Bucks as a good example of a decent shooting team (not amazing) that makes the most of its eFG.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/milwaukee-bucks-shot-chart-this-season

Compare with this (it’s easier to open both and flip back and forth)

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/knicks-shot-chart-this-season

To the extent the Bucks are taking shots that are not in the paint or beyond the arc, the ones they take are dark blue -meaning they hit at a rate significantly higher than league average.

This speaks to something that Bud was doing back with Atlanta, he was finding ways to get his players shots from locations where the player was most efficient.

The Knicks don’t seem to have a prohibition on turn around fadeaway 18 footers. Last season, Randle was surprisingly good at those . But as you compare, the differences between Bud and Thibs, the Bucks offense is a bit of an eFG machine to back up their very good defense.

The loosely goosey nature (eg dribble dribble iso ball) doesn’t really focus on getting players the ball where the player is most efficient, it basically accepts the shot that the defense is willing to give (in our case, often 18 foot turnaround fadeaways).

The last 10 games or so, the Knicks have seemed to throw off that leash and just attacked the rim (across the boards). It still not in context of an organized offense with plays intended to get the ball to players in locations that they are efficient, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Awesome link! Are we looking at the same pictures? It looks like the Knicks have the better shot profile to me- paint, 3's and (off chart) free throws. The Bucks shoot it better, lots more dark blue, but overall Knicks are taking good shots- without necessarily making them.

Good point, the Knicks are now taking better shots. Let's refine this further though with two points. 1) FG% is important, but points per possession is more important. 2) The Team Shot chart is the sum of its parts. The total is the sum of its parts, but not all parts were made equally.

FG% - If players are taking high percentage shots, you tend to let that run. For example, if Randle could hit a turnaround jumpshot at 18 feet every time, you let him hit it every time. That's a bit disingenuous on my part to make that argument, but no one is telling Tim Duncan not to take that 12 foot shot off the glass. So, you kind of have to look past those big dark blue spots because much of that is Bud letting players take shots that specific players are really good at. The Knicks are a bit more randomized. Less ordered.

For the Bucks, the two places you see outside the tradition eFG zone are mostly Giannis and Khris Middleton. And they are pretty good at those locations.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/giannis-antetokounmpo-shot-chart You can see Giannis is pretty limited to where he can shoot from.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/kris-middleton-shot-chart Meanwhile, Middleton is just all over the place, but pretty dark blue where ever he is shooting from. Guy just has the green light.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/2021-jrue-holiday-shot-chart I'll add Jrue Holiday as proof of point - much less shots taken, but pretty much dark blue where ever he gets shots.

The point, Bud's offense is geared to get players shots where they are most efficient. The light blue areas tend to be minimized. You can

Now, compare that with the NY Knicks.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/julius-randle-shot-chart-this-season Randle is just kind of sprinkled around everwhere. Not a lot of shots from any specific location. The offense isn't setting him up in places where he is really good.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/rj-barrett-shot-chart Barrett is taking the right shots, just not doing very well with them. As he learns to pass better and keeps getting stronger, this will improve in my opinion. But the shot chart is great.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/fournier-shot-chart-this-season Fournier is also pretty efficient. Could tighten up those 18 footers.

So, to improve on the shots they are taking, they need to start putting players into a position to take shots where they are really good. If I could have Fournier shoot every ball from the top of the key, where he is back on defense also, why wouldn't we?

If you could set Randle up on the top right or down in the paint, do it.

Barrett seems to make good shooting choices, just needs to pass better. So, I give him the ball more often than not and try and get him moving without the ball to the location where he shoots 40% from 3 (same spot as Randle).

I know it isn't as easy as I write, but that's the point of an offensive system. To put players in positions to maximize points per possession.

To put it all in context, look at Steph Curry - there isn't a perfect, but that GSW offense is organized to get him the ball in efficient locations.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/stephen-curry-shot-chart-2022

So, yeah. the Knicks big 3 aren't doing badly. But the offensive coach needs to start putting them in positions to hit their best shots not just take good shots. Still work to be done.